Smalcald Posted September 12, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted September 12, 2007 But the context in which Christ was teaching was much stricter than our view today of divorce wouldn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted September 12, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2007 But the context in which Christ was teaching was much stricter than our view today of divorce wouldn't it be? But I would totally disagree with your opinion about what the Church has done. I realize also this is my opinion! If the Church has condemned anybody to stay in marriages, then no one is listening. What a joke, along with many other modern things, divorce is totally embraced and accepted by most churches today along with adultery, it is probably one of the reasons that divorce and adultery are as common or sometimes even more common among Christians as it is among the secular non-believers. The Christian Church today totally accepts divorce for any reason, follow your heart! I think that if you looked at the 50's it may have been much different yes, but not today. You can't have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted September 12, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted September 12, 2007 But the context in which Christ was teaching was much stricter than our view today of divorce wouldn't it be? But I would totally disagree with your opinion about what the Church has done. I realize also this is my opinion! If the Church has condemned anybody to stay in marriages, then no one is listening. What a joke, along with many other modern things, divorce is totally embraced and accepted by most churches today along with adultery, it is probably one of the reasons that divorce and adultery are as common or sometimes even more common among Christians as it is among the secular non-believers. The Christian Church today totally accepts divorce for any reason, follow your heart! I think that if you looked at the 50's it may have been much different yes, but not today. You can't have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnie Posted September 12, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 811 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,338 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 76 Days Won: 2 Joined: 10/06/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2007 I have two friends right now who are in the middle of divorcing; I honestly don't know what to do. I told the one he had to go back to his wife. Of course he has a girlfriend, and I think he may try, but the bottom line is he doesn't want to, he does not feel guilty about his new "love". This bothers me on several levels, just the basic morality of it, and the deeper issue of true repentance, which can never happen as long as he feels this way, how can he repent of his love. He and his soon to be ex, both make the same, so he has it all calculated out that he really won't owe very much in child support and with no fault divorce, legally he is no more at fault than she is in this deal, and he is getting a lot of support from family and friends. He already has a new church picked out where he and his girlfriend can go. So lately I have been hard on the topic and depressed about it. It just seems like every time I turn around someone is cheating, people I know who I thought would never do such a thing. Maybe it is just because as I age and know people longer over the decades you find out more than you want to know about them. Anyway sorry for the rant once again I have taken us off topic. It's a hard thing to deal with, whether you are going through a divorce yourself or watching those who are close to you going through it. It's because divorce was never part of G-d's plan for His children, so when we see it happening, the Holy Spirit within us sees that it's a perversion of something that should be beautiful and glorifying to G-d. G-d allowed divorce in the first place because of man's hard heart. I think it is the great shame of the Church in modern times; how we have allowed a corrupted culture to creep in. Nowadays it's hard to tell where the world ends and the Church begins. In regards to your friends, of course you know more than I do about their situation, but even at that I'm sure there are things you don't know about. I would never (better sit down as you read this!) presume to give folks in that predicatment any kind of advice, ie., to go back to their spouse or leave their spouse. Honestly, I have had friends in the same situation and their divorce was a godsend. Both have since remarried, are building their respective lives and are serving the Lord. G-d can and does forgive any kind of sin, even the "sin" of divorce regardless of it's cause (adultery or otherwise). Man at his best is still sinful; he is saved by grace, yet, still sinful, constantly in need of G-d's mercy and forgivness. To limit G-d's grace in the case of divorce and remarriage is to put a limit on G-d Himself. All you can do is the best you can do: pray for them. Pray that even in the midst of this situation, somehow G-d would be glorified in both of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted September 12, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted September 12, 2007 But the context in which Christ was teaching was much stricter than our view today of divorce wouldn't it be? But I would totally disagree with your opinion about what the Church has done. I realize also this is my opinion! If the Church has condemned anybody to stay in marriages, then no one is listening. What a joke, along with many other modern things, divorce is totally embraced and accepted by most churches today along with adultery, it is probably one of the reasons that divorce and adultery are as common or sometimes even more common among Christians as it is among the secular non-believers. The Christian Church today totally accepts divorce for any reason, follow your heart! I think that if you looked at the 50's it may have been much different yes, but not today. You can't have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minte_1 Posted September 12, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 10 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/03/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/23/1978 Share Posted September 12, 2007 (edited) If you all don't mind i am going to say something or ask it actually I'm not sure... I have been in an abusive marriage for 10 years... In the first month after we were married he started pushing me and was extremely verbally abusive.... It would escalate, then simmer down...He never apologized and said it was my fault. We have four children under the age of 8, and it is them i am concerned about, he would never hurt them physically, but i know for a fact that words hurt , so , so much more....I temporarily separated from him last year for 8 months, and after about 4 months he wanted to be back and started to compliment me more etc... and now he is living back with us, and it is has gone downhill again, but the thing is i am not concerned for my physical safety or the children, it is the words that come out of his mouth that is hurting us.... What is the Biblical stance on divorce for verbal abuse??? Not that i can ever see myself divorcing him, for I have hope that he will change, but i just don't see if i did want a divorce that i would be biblically able to do that... But the context in which Christ was teaching was much stricter than our view today of divorce wouldn't it be? But I would totally disagree with your opinion about what the Church has done. I realize also this is my opinion! If the Church has condemned anybody to stay in marriages, then no one is listening. What a joke, along with many other modern things, divorce is totally embraced and accepted by most churches today along with adultery, it is probably one of the reasons that divorce and adultery are as common or sometimes even more common among Christians as it is among the secular non-believers. The Christian Church today totally accepts divorce for any reason, follow your heart! I think that if you looked at the 50's it may have been much different yes, but not today. You can't have Edited September 12, 2007 by minte_1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliyahuw Posted September 12, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,263 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/17/1961 Share Posted September 12, 2007 If you all don't mind i am going to say something or ask it actually I'm not sure... I have been in an abusive marriage for 10 years... In the first month after we were married he started pushing me and was extremely verbally abusive.... It would escalate, then simmer down...He never apologized and said it was my fault. We have four children under the age of 8, and it is them i am concerned about, he would never hurt them physically, but i know for a fact that words hurt , so , so much more....I temporarily separated from him last year for 8 months, and after about 4 months he wanted to be back and started to compliment me more etc... and now he is living back with us, and it is has gone downhill again, but the thing is i am not concerned for my physical safety or the children, it is the words that come out of his mouth that is hurting us.... What is the Biblical stance on divorce for verbal abuse??? Not that i can ever see myself divorcing him, for I have hope that he will change, but i just don't see if i did want a divorce that i would be biblically able to do that... i can tell ya from experience, words can kill just like a fist can. I suffered 6 heart attacks the last one almost doing me in for good. Took far too many years of verbal abuse from my wife. Finally had enough and sent her packing. I wouldn't be here today if i had of tried to do it the churchs way, and stay married. I realized i didn't love her enough to let her send me to the grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted September 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted September 13, 2007 If you all don't mind i am going to say something or ask it actually I'm not sure... I have been in an abusive marriage for 10 years... In the first month after we were married he started pushing me and was extremely verbally abusive.... It would escalate, then simmer down...He never apologized and said it was my fault. We have four children under the age of 8, and it is them i am concerned about, he would never hurt them physically, but i know for a fact that words hurt , so , so much more....I temporarily separated from him last year for 8 months, and after about 4 months he wanted to be back and started to compliment me more etc... and now he is living back with us, and it is has gone downhill again, but the thing is i am not concerned for my physical safety or the children, it is the words that come out of his mouth that is hurting us.... What is the Biblical stance on divorce for verbal abuse??? Not that i can ever see myself divorcing him, for I have hope that he will change, but i just don't see if i did want a divorce that i would be biblically able to do that... i can tell ya from experience, words can kill just like a fist can. I suffered 6 heart attacks the last one almost doing me in for good. Took far too many years of verbal abuse from my wife. Finally had enough and sent her packing. I wouldn't be here today if i had of tried to do it the churchs way, and stay married. I realized i didn't love her enough to let her send me to the grave. VERY sorry to hear this. Glad you survived. I've often wondered if emotional and mental abuse has longer lasting effects than plain physical abuse. Thing is that physical abuse is always accompanied by a great deal of harsh verbal abuse. Having talked with many women and a few men that have survived, it seems that the forced subjugation is one of the things that damages a persons psyche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo1 Posted September 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,822 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/16/1967 Share Posted September 13, 2007 from damo1 i hope i can share hear with out being attacked i understand everyone is different on this topic alone and my heart goes out to some of the women that have shared hear and i am sorry that most have had to endure some harsh things in abusive marriages and even wear harsh words have been spoken towards a partner in the community that i live in hear in australia the goverment is starting to deal with this in a way wear men can come into a group session and talk openly with out being judged or put down this mind you is only happening with in the aborigonal communities and many are on a welfare payment and living in goverment housing commission home i hope i do not tired on no ones toes yet as a christian and as a man once who was abusive towards my partner my life has turned around to the point wear i am able to sit in on some of these sessions alone and share to the guys that come to these groups as a christian i had to say sorry to the way the church has let them down i should not have had to say sorry yet i was asked by my pastor to represent our church and just sit in and listen and wear asked to share share which i did most of the aborigonal men and young males all said to me wear they tried to seek help from the church they almost felt ashamed and thought that all christians would not help and only be judgmental as this is how they saw the hole body of christ as these men and young males in married relationships are wanting change they no longer want to be violent towards there partners or towards there own children they do not even want there children seeing this to the point wear they almost bring what they see to there own relationships mind you i sit with older aboriginal men and younger ones fathers and sons sitting together talking openly and to hear what most say it almost brakes my heart i am sitting in with proffesional goverment works and most are secular workers working with in mental health and mens counselers a lot of issues are raised in a safe enviroment like alcohol drugs pornography and yes verbal abuse as well the course runs for 12 months to 2r's and what happens they become effective role models with in there own communitys to wear they are able to lead other young males as in most aborigonal communities in australia the elders run these communities to wear if the police are called or department of community services they have to get permission from one of the elders this alone is on a wider scale as only this year our goverment took over several communities in the nothern territory for 5r's as there has been no police station established with in these communities to wear women young kids who experienced this sort of abuse had no wear to turn to there wear not even goverment services set up or even a church with in these communities how this happened is people had enough to wear they cried out for help what the goverment has done with in each community alcohol bans have been established to wear no alcohol can be bought or sold with in these communitys for 6 months and in these communitys wear there was no police station police stations are being built as the law was there own law with in the 6 of the communitys that is under control over 200 men and boys have been bought before the courts even young boys when i say young from 11 to 18 on charges such as rape and violence hear wear i live men and young males are able to talk as i said openly and it is running very well yes most pastors are not experienced to deal with such things as what people have been sharing and most turn to men like my friend brent or the mike for help yet both partys have to come to the table to wear they are willing to address this yes do all the things that have been sugested we do this hear wear we tel the mother with kids to get away and we have safe houses wear women with children can go to when i turned to the church for help i was shown the front door yet most people in our church did not know that this was happening when i opened up and cried out for help it was to late my pastor told my x wife to leave me and for 5r's i did not have no contac i signed the divorce papers that wear sent to me in 2000 and all i could do is trust god that i wail one day get a chance to say sorry to my x wife and to my son which this did happen it happened in early 2005 and as i shared in an early post we are good friends and we are very close my x wife told me she got christian counseling and did not turn towards a secular consoler and she was able to deal with what i had put her threw i found a good christian consoler and i had to be responsible for what i put my x wife and son threw this man did not judge me or point the finger at me he helped me deal with a lot of issues even to what i had experienced at home wear i grew up under an abusive father and i had to constantly step in and try to protect my mother from the violence the way i did we dug at the root of the problem and brent invited the holy spirit into the sessions and as i said when i am asked to share in mens groups such as i pointed out at the start my x wife prays for me and so does my youngest boy who is only 10r's old i am know even being asked to come back to my old church as my old pastor contacted me and asked me to forgive him mind you this was hard at first yet jesus forgave me and i had no right to be angry at my old pastor as he wants to do this openly and he said several other people in my old church also want to ask me for there forgivness i said its ok it does not need to be done openly yet this is the way my old pastor wants it done i am walking back to a church that shut the door on me and its been over 6'yrs since i have been back to my old church yet god has his hands on this i am very open and i do not beat around the bush i dealt with the verbal abuse as weal as verbal abuse can hurt a women yet today i am a better man and all the glory goes to god for what he had done in my life again let me say how sorry i am for what some of you women had been threw and this is from the heart as i can see how wrong it was for me to do this towards my own wife and child i hope i have not up set no one for what i stated hear if so i ask for your forgivness yet i just needed to share what is being done hear in my commuity and other communitys in Australia from damo1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OopsMartin Posted September 13, 2007 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 829 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1943 Share Posted September 13, 2007 If you all don't mind i am going to say something or ask it actually I'm not sure... I have been in an abusive marriage for 10 years... In the first month after we were married he started pushing me and was extremely verbally abusive.... It would escalate, then simmer down...He never apologized and said it was my fault. We have four children under the age of 8, and it is them i am concerned about, he would never hurt them physically, but i know for a fact that words hurt , so , so much more....I temporarily separated from him last year for 8 months, and after about 4 months he wanted to be back and started to compliment me more etc... and now he is living back with us, and it is has gone downhill again, but the thing is i am not concerned for my physical safety or the children, it is the words that come out of his mouth that is hurting us.... What is the Biblical stance on divorce for verbal abuse??? Not that i can ever see myself divorcing him, for I have hope that he will change, but i just don't see if i did want a divorce that i would be biblically able to do that... Seems to me that I remember the word translated "adultery" actually covered a wide range of domestic and sexual abuses and sinful actions, including pornography. Haven't looked it up lately. Perhaps someone else has. Even with the Scriptures in hand, I think a Christian needs to humbly approach God with much prayer asking for God wisdom, and being absolutely certain that every other avenue had been exhausted. And I would also say, we must be certain that our spouse has actually turned their heart away from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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