artsylady Posted October 8, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 171 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,813 Content Per Day: 0.64 Reputation: 150 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 8, 2007 Do you beleive that you are too smart to believe an intelligent entity greater and more powerful than yourselves, capable of creating a universe, even though you know it cannot be proven scientificallly that the entity exists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollkiller Posted October 9, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 1 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 249 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/07/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 9, 2007 Do you beleive that you are too smart to believe an intelligent entity greater and more powerful than yourselves, capable of creating a universe, even though you know it cannot be proven scientificallly that the entity exists? No i don't believe that i am too smart to believe in a creator. What i do know is that i am smart enough to say that i don't know how it all came into existence. It could have been the big bang or it could have been a creator or it could be something else altogether. I have no problem with people saying it might have happened this way but when they say it as absolute fact when nobody can be 100% certain i get annoyed. (Being relatively smart beleive is spelt believe by the way only messing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rehydrated_for_Christ Posted October 9, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 39 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/26/1983 Share Posted October 9, 2007 Ah, that is the beauty of our God-the only God. He supplies us enough evidence to know something is behind it all, but let's enough go unanswered that we must go out on that limb of faith. Faith is the crux of Chrisitianity (he he, look up the def of crux and see how well that fits ) If you ever meet a "Christian" that offers 100% proof of anything, they are seriously misled. Faith in God is the key of our religion. Until you experience assurity of God in your life it is not possible for anyone to explain or express to you how we "know" there is a God. It is simply knowledge from God that He so wants to give each one of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwcrenshaw Posted October 10, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 10, 2007 I don't think it is a matter of "how smart" someone thinks they are. The fact that atheists do not believe in a higher power is based on a lack of evidence...not because we believe ourselves to be too smart to believe in a creator. The fact that the existence of a god is not scientifically verifiable is not insignificant. If any entity does not have an effect in the world we perceive (therefore scientifically verifiable), then it means nothing to say that said entity does in fact exist. If i had a box that i told you contained a substance that cannot be measured by scientific means (i.e. has no perceptible attributes)....then what is the difference between that box and an empty box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCgirl4eternity Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 13 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 Ah, that is the beauty of our God-the only God. He supplies us enough evidence to know something is behind it all, but let's enough go unanswered that we must go out on that limb of faith. Faith is the crux of Chrisitianity (he he, look up the def of crux and see how well that fits ) If you ever meet a "Christian" that offers 100% proof of anything, they are seriously misled. Faith in God is the key of our religion. Until you experience assurity of God in your life it is not possible for anyone to explain or express to you how we "know" there is a God. It is simply knowledge from God that He so wants to give each one of us. I sorta disagree with some of that like "the key of our religion". I happen to believe that Christianity is not a religion. It's a relationship with the Creator God and it's only by His grace and love that we can be called His children. And also, I believe it takes more faith to believe in evolution because we see people create things all day long, so we know it's possible for a God to create something. But for things to just happen out of nothing and no one doing it is way harder to believe, at least it seems that way to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 The Whole Cosmos Is The Evidence "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1 No Friend Of Atheists! Mind Blinded! "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." 2 Corinthians 4:4 The fact that atheists do not believe in a higher power is based on a lack of evidence Welcome! Thank You For Sharing Your Understanding Of Unbelief In The LORD Jesus Christ. There Are "Unbelievers" Who Know The Truth About The Lord Jesus But Who Still Reject Him As Lord And Savior. They Sometimes Come Into The Worthy Fellowship Just To Blindly Rail Against The Love Of God And The Holy Bible. What A Tragic Way To Slide Into Eternity! It Could Be The Last Chance. So, At Worthy We Prayerfully Offer Our Guests God's Truth. We Know The End Of Mankind Without The Covering Of The Blood Of Jesus. GOT EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO HEAR The Creation Speaks Of God To All Men. Made The Decision To Deny God The Glory That Is His? Hummm, Is There Still Hope? For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Romans 1:20-23 Seeker Of Truth? Is There Still Hope? And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.Jeremiah 29:13 HOPE You Are Here At Worthy Because God Loves You. There Is Still Hope! The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.Jeremiah 31:3 Did You Know Sinners Hate God? There Is Still Hope! But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.Proverbs 8:36 God Reasons With You. There Is Still Hope! Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.Isaiah 1:18 Ever Hear What God Did? There Is Still Hope! But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.Romans 5:8 Ever Confess? There Is Still Hope! That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.Romans 10:9-10 See Jesus And Be Blessed Beloved The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwcrenshaw Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 (edited) The Whole Cosmos Is The Evidence Fine...but for a second imagine....and I know this might be tough....a universe without a god. What would that theoritical universe look like? The vast majority (something like 99.9999...%) would probably be uninhabitable due to extreme conditions not suitable for life as we know it. There would be utter chaos in this universe where stars explode, blackholes devour everything in their path, and cosmic events happen where the destruction is incomprehensible with no sign that compassion and mercy were any part of the equation. Then you realize that this describes our own universe. The point is....the known universe that we perceive is exactly what we would expect to see in a universe without a God. As for the rest of your post, there is no point of me trying to debate you about Bible verses. Logic and reasoning are much more convincing. Edited October 11, 2007 by cwcrenshaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 Grace to you, There would be utter chaos in this universe where stars explode, blackholes devour everything in their path, and cosmic events happen where the destruction is incomprehensible There is order to the Cosmos my friend. So much so that we humans can't begin to explain what the dark matter is that is holding it all together. The Word of God explains that the stars that we see even the constellations and awesome vast expanse were Created for the enjoyment of mankind. For the marking of the times and of the seasons. where the destruction is incomprehensible with no sign that compassion and mercy were any part of the equation. If there are no inhabitants out there, how is the destruction incompassionate and merciless? Would you agree that sending One's only Son to die for you, the Greatest thing of value, worth, and Love to God is Merciful? Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwcrenshaw Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/10/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 There is order to the Cosmos my friend. So much so that we humans can't begin to explain what the dark matter is that is holding it all together. The Word of God explains that the stars that we see even the constellations and awesome vast expanse were Created for the enjoyment of mankind. For the marking of the times and of the seasons. I agree there is "order" in the universe. The way objects of smaller mass orbit objects of greater mass is exactly what we would expect to see due to gravity. There is order in the respect that things are bound by the laws of the nature (gravity, strong force, weak force, etc)....this is a far cry from saying that the universe has "order" due to a supreme being controlling every event. On your second point, I would have to strongly disagree with you that the universe was created for the enjoyment of mankind. When you look at the size of the universe compared to size of our planet (or galaxy for that matter)...we don't even register...we are microscopic at best. The constellations are not shapes or patterns, they are only how we see a few distant stars from one particular (and might I add, insignificant) point in space. If we were to be in another position in space, the stars we see might actually look to spell out something or draw a picture...but this too would be mere coincidence. To say that the universe was created with us in mind is...well....a little conceited at best. If there are no inhabitants out there, how is the destruction incompassionate and merciless? Maybe those aren't the best words to use....the point is, if the universe was created by God then it would be perfect and not the malevolent and violent void that it is. Would you agree that sending One's only Son to die for you, the Greatest thing of value, worth, and Love to God is Merciful? No, I don't see how sending someone to die is merciful. That's all I will say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted October 11, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted October 11, 2007 Grace to you, When you look at the size of the universe compared to size of our planet (or galaxy for that matter)...we don't even register...we are microscopic at best. That's exactly how God wants it. He uses the weak and the small to demonstrate His Glory. That is why He chose to come down bodily taking on the form of a man. Being born in a Stable to the weak and the poor. He entered the world as a Child. Fully God yet fully embracing your situation and your sinful flesh. Does this offend you? Maybe if God is really God He should have chosen Jupiter as the place for His Glory to dwell? It's a much larger and imposing planet. we don't even register...we are microscopic at best. Is this how you perceive that God see's you? That's a lie straight from the pit of hell designed to keep you stifled and in the dark. The constellations are not shapes or patterns, I see your argument. Yet God placed this planet perfectly in the Universe right where He knew what we would see from our vantage point. It's actually quite beautiful and in the hereafter I'm looking forward to what else I will see. I mean reallly, if God placed me here and has been so very Good to me, what else does He have in store for me? It's gonna be awesome. but this too would be mere coincidence. To say that the universe was created with us in mind is...well....a little conceited at best. No coincidence at all. It's actually quite Biblical to say the Universe was Created for us men so that God would receive all the Glory. Not conceited at all either. God really Loves us. Do you think highly of yourself? I mean do you have a reason for Hope? You have a kind of bleak view of mankind. It could be because of your viewpoint regarding Evolution and all. It leaves man as nothing more than a simple monkey with no inherent value whatsoever. the point is, if the universe was created by God then it would be perfect and not the malevolent and violent void that it is. That's a pretty harsh opinion. I see Beauty and God's Glory in the Universe. I remember as a child watching Carl Sagan (Billions, upon Billions, upon Billions. ) He sure was pretty much in awe of this wonderful Universe and he was an atheist. No, I don't see how sending someone to die is merciful. That's all I will say about that. Not someone, God Himself in the flesh. Peace, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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