OneAccord Posted March 17, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 17, 2004 Tell me,One...did God always deliver His people by Himself,or did He use His people to fight? Tell me and you'll have your answer..... and this war HAS brought peace already to this area. Sadaam is no longer a threat to his neighbors as he was before....NOR is he able to pay off palestinian killers for blowing themselves up in Israel!!!! God did a mighty deliverance on the children of Israel without any of them having to pick up a weapon in the book of Expdus. You bet He's capable of deliverance. "Stand still and see the salvation of the Lord". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 You know what, sportster? You hit it on the head. This discussion isn't about war or peace though OA would like to paint it that way. It's about rightly dividing the word of truth. Every cult in the world uses the Word of God because it has authority. But they never use the "whole" Word of God because they can't. They stick to one area which appears to support their agenda...becuase if they ever allowed the "whole" word to be interpreted correctly their house of cards would fall. Pacifism is not a biblical concept. Most of them are universalists, new-agers, PETA radicals, and & environmental whackos. Yet they also support abortion on demand. Isn't that ironic? How about you OA? Are you pro-abortion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Shiloh QUOTE The part that says "love" means giving your throat to your enemies to slit. The part that says that my children are not worth fighting to protect. The part that says I will let my friends and neighbors and government fight my battles for me so that I can remain free, and enjoy the fruits of liberty, while I routintely denegrade their sacrifices as immoral, and unChristian. Do you not trust the Lord to be Your shield when you are obedient to His commandments, including 'Love thy enemy'? Or must you trust in chariots? Perfect love casteth out fear. I believe the Word of God when it says: 1 Tim. 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. That means providing for all their needs and for their protection. To imply that protecting one's family whom God has placed in one's care is somehow a lack of faith only shows your lack of skill in handling the Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sportster Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 One,you mentioned 'ONE' example....now,how about the other mulititude,hmmm??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 God did a mighty deliverance on the children of Israel without any of them having to pick up a weapon in the book of Expdus. You bet He's capable of deliverance. "Stand still and see the salvation of the Lord". Yes, God is capable of supernatural intervention, but he has NEVER promised that he would do that in every situation. It was God who gave David victory over the Philistines. David was NO pacifist. David was a man of war, and God called him a "man after mine own heart." This was the same God who said in Leviticus "love your neighbor as yourself." God allowed David to slay Goliath, and cut his head off. That wasn't very pacifistic of him. You mentioned trusting God, OneAccord.... I trust God as my source of supply, financially speaking. That does not mean I sit at home and do nothing, trusting that there will be a big check in the mailbox every week. I have to have a job. That is what God expects. Is it a lack of faith for me go to work? Am I "trusting" in my employer more than God because I have gainful employment? OneAccord, you remind me of that old joke about the guy sitting on his housetop waiting for God to deliver him from a flood. He rejects assistance offered by three people with two boats and a helicopter because he was "trusting" God. He drowns and finds out that God had actually sent those people to help him. What you are demonstrating through pacifism, is not trust, but presumption. It is like these awful people who refuse medical treatment for their children because they are "trusting" God to heal their child. That is completely irresponsible, and those people by all rights should be tried in court for manslaughter, child endangerment, and child neglect. I trust God that when I rise up to defend my family from harm, that God will fight for me and with me. A family is a gift from God that should be protected on all fronts. Your assertion that "love" means I should do nothing in their defense, is unbiblical, irresponsible, and reflects your inability to rightly divide the word of truth. I don't trust in chariots more than God. I trust God that when I, or my family are in danger, that HE will send the chariots. He has done it in the past, and He will do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Dang Shilo. You smacked that ball right out of the park! Grand Slam There is nothing left to be said....Next subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted March 18, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 18, 2004 : : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell Posted March 18, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 28 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/01/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/01/1957 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Can A Christian Support War, nonviolence.. is it for you? The topic heading Many do support it, as do in this thread. Many don't... as also in this thread. Some are not sure and would need an invasion of their country to make their mind up. The ones who do not support war... I imagine have complete trust in Jesus and I assume believe they will have victory in Jesus... in death... if that be God's will. I commend them on their faith if this is the case. The ones who will go to war see it as protecting what God has given them...their families...homes...lifestyle...freedoms...country...etc. Are they right...this I believe is their walk with Jesus. A personnal choice...their personnal walk. Today it is OK. Tomorrow maybe not. I will not judge them. I tend to ask myself with these sort of questions,"What would Jesus do" would He stop and fight/ take up arms or would He submit. I tend to see Him as submitting... for His kingdom is not of this world. He will fight though... when it is of His time. Governments are put into place by God for a purpose...we pay taxes for these purposes of God. These governments are accountable to Him. He changes them when he see fit. I believe we need born again Christians in all levels of Government who will help make decisions based on YHWH will. For if we as and individual/nation submit to YHWH will... and He be for us...who can be against us. We need to pray that God will send men and women gifted to lead out... to reach the unsaved... the ungodly...so that God may have mercy on them. But what I believe we need most is for Christians to unite and send a message to our leaders that we as individuals and as a nation need is to repent of our sins...our fornications...our love of money...our love of self...neglecting our families...leaving our wives/husbands...legalising homosexuality /abortion/ pornography/ prostitution. Should we march down the street stating this...This I am not sure of...but i like the idea and would join in if it was done in a peaceful way...by the way i have never seen it done...seen plenty of marches though. Blessings in Jesus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I tend to ask myself with these sort of questions,"What would Jesus do" would He stop and fight/ take up arms or would He submit. I tend to see Him as submitting Jesus would submit to his father, but would not submit to evil enemies. He does not expect us to give up our children or friends to enemies who desire to kill them. No where did Jesus submit to Satan. He submitted to his Father only. The ones who will go to war see it as protecting what God has given them...their families...homes...lifestyle...freedoms...country...etc. Are they right...this I believe is their walk with Jesus. A personnal choice...their personnal walk. Today it is OK. Tomorrow maybe not. I will not judge them. The ones who do not support war... I imagine have complete trust in Jesus and I assume believe they will have victory in Jesus... in death... if that be God's will. I commend them on their faith if this is the case. As long as there are those who are willing to fight for freedom and are willing to lay down their lives in defense of the defenseless, pacifists will never have to worry about death. REAL Christians will always be there to protect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 18, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Not trying to get tangled in the fight, but I just want to add a comment here. It is tricky, I believe, to look at Jesus and the apostles in terms of this argument. Why? Because Jesus was here for a specific mission. Those who wanted to kill Him had no power over Him until His "hour had come." Then, it was His mission to submit to be handed over and be "as a sheep to the slaughter." The apostles were about spreading the Gospel. Any attack against them was based on their work for the Kingdom of God. If there is someone who knows how to move in spiritual authority, I believe he/she can overcome evil confrontations with the power of God. I have heard of such stories. Jesus slipped through the crowd when they wanted to stone Him this way. Elisha overcame an army this way, too. (the army was blinded) Otherwise, I do not believe "turning the other cheek" means, "Let an evil man have his way with you." If you are unable to use the power of God, then physical force is the only other option left to you. Of course, Elijah used the power of God to kill people with fire! :x: Basically, when using people in the Bible to argue this point, I believe you need to keep things in context. Which leads up to a question I've always had. Why at the Last Supper did Jesus tell His disciples to take a sword with them, yet then rebuked Peter for using it in the Garden? Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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