Smalcald Posted December 4, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted December 4, 2007 If we could not reject Christ then all would be saved as God Himself says that He desires eveyone to be saved. However I do not think scripture supports the idea that we choose God, God chooses us and at that point we have the power to turn away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted December 4, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted December 4, 2007 good response card. predestination as people think of it would not be fair. and that would be contrary to God's nature. that alone should indicate that it isn't biblical. Really? Didn't God choose Abraham? Didn't He choose Jacob? Didn't He predestination these two to be the fathers of a chosen people? But Abraham as well as Jacob could have chosen not to respond to God's calling,the fact that they did not reject God does not mean that they couldn't of. "woulda', coulda' shoulda'" doesn't prove Scripture, however. God chose them, they responded, is how Scripture tells the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rxhe01 Posted December 4, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 6 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/19/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 4, 2007 If we could not reject Christ then all would be saved as God Himself says that He desires eveyone to be saved. However I do not think scripture supports the idea that we choose God, God chooses us and at that point we have the power to turn away. hey guys, reading and thinking about this whole topic has been making my head spin in circle. and make me come back to this predestination vs free will thing. I am not sure if I am right, but basically predestination is God has already chosen the people that is going to be saved and accept his grace. He chose us first, and then we are able to choose him. It is also not possible for anyone that is chosen by God or have their name written in the book of life to not be saved (this part really really contradict with the free will). But free will does exist because we were given the choice, just that without God's grace, we will end up in hell given our sinful nature, but with God's grace it is so strong and beautiful anyone who is blessed with it will want to follow God. Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreciousRubi Posted December 5, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 103 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted December 5, 2007 Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. Revelation 13:7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain. Revelation 20:15 And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. Revelation 21:27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it (Holy city), nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb’s book of life. God gives us free-will to make our own choices...but He does just happen to know the beginning from the end...right? PR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted December 5, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I think yes and yes. God knows all how could He not? Thus He has always known what will happen to every individual born and to be born. But just becuase you know what is going to happen does not mean you step in an change things. Free will is real from our perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted December 5, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I think yes and yes. God knows all how could He not? Thus He has always known what will happen to every individual born and to be born. But just becuase you know what is going to happen does not mean you step in an change things. Free will is real from our perspective. But not from God's. Think about anything having to do with the eternal nature of God and your head might explode in a puff of logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted December 5, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Yeah we can't really get this in that we cannot ever totally understand God or really even come close to it. In the end all we have is scripture. Scripture supports both predestination and free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherEljohari Posted December 5, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 158 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/20/1984 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I "believe" God knew those 2 individuals would responde to the call. As God knows all. As to the being called vs. choosing God... I would have to lean towards the side where the Lord chooses us, based on his foreknowledge. Roms 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. God choose Moses, Jacob, Joseph, and the lists are endless.... But i think the difference is each is called to a stronger point of works than another. Which is also according to Gods will. I think we can all agree that God is Almighty, wonderful, loving creature, which us the choosing are extremely blessed to have receive. God bless Heatherxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted December 5, 2007 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted December 5, 2007 to the elect it is the blessing but how about these who are not the elect It is fair and just. Eveyone who is in hell and goes to hell will have proactively chosen hell. God has known who those people who would reject Him would be since before the beginning of all existence. Hi Smalcald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted December 5, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted December 5, 2007 good response card. predestination as people think of it would not be fair. and that would be contrary to God's nature. that alone should indicate that it isn't biblical. Really? Didn't God choose Abraham? Didn't He choose Jacob? Didn't He predestination these two to be the fathers of a chosen people? But Abraham as well as Jacob could have chosen not to respond to God's calling,the fact that they did not reject God does not mean that they couldn't of. "woulda', coulda' shoulda'" doesn't prove Scripture, however. God chose them, they responded, is how Scripture tells the story. They responded,that is the key But where does it say they had a choice? That is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts