The Rapture Is Coming, (Watch ye) therefore

[Yahsway]

I believe one can be "kept from the hour of trial". The Israelits were during the time the plagues were upon Egypt before their deliverence out of Egypt.

[Yahsway]

I read here where someone said that the 2 witnesses in Rev would be Moses and Elijah? But how can Moses be one when in Duet 34 it says

"So Moses the servant of the Lord Died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord."

Does Moses get to die a 2nd death during the Great Trib? For according to Rev 11 it states-

"When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war with them. And their Dead bodies will lie in the streets of the great city ......

The two witnesses identified as the 2 lampstands and 2 olivetrees are they not symbols of the witnessing Church?

Would the beast "make war" with 2 individuals or could it be it an appropriate description of persecution of the believing Jews and Gentiles?

And could it further be said that their bodies would be more than 2 individual bodies but scores of believers and then they are Raptured up according to this verse in Rev?

And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them "Come up here." And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them."

For the next verse 15 says

Then the 7th angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His

Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

[patricia1]

The church of Christ is here during Daniels 70th week

prove it

here's a little hint: Daniel 9, the original passage in the Bible which details the length of time of the antichrist's peace covenant with Israel and time of God's eschatological wrath (also directly referenced by Christ Himself), was written at a time when the Church did not even exist, and there is no mention of Gentiles or the Church anywhere in that passage, it is the time of the Jews to once again be the ministers of the Truth, and witnesses to the world...a mission they failed miserably at throughout much of the Old Covenant

God isn't done with them!

God uses 144,000 specially annointed Jewish men (as well as Moses and Elijah, the Two Witnesses) to PROCLAIM THE GOSPEL TO THE ENTIRE WORLD, and MILLIONS (Jews and Gentiles) are saved as a result, and also because of the intense turmoil of the time

The Church isn't here, the Church has no part of the 70th Week of Daniel's prophecy, otherwise God wouldn't need to supernaturally convert 144,000 Jews. The entire structure of Revelation makes that clear, as well as the promise of Revelation 3:10 to the Church

Just wondering something...I am very tired but I will be back. I always believed the 144,000 were 12,00 from each tribe. I would gather from what I am reading they are born of Israeli origin. now I believe I am from the tribe of Levi but it cannot be proven. What if who we call gentiles today may in fact a israelite un be knwon to us? I mean if I came from Noahs line which eventually we all have, How does one know who is hebrew so to speak...I wonder and ponder that often.

God knows and sees all. There are definite prophecies specific to the hebrew person and not the gentile in regards to nation and other things

They still preach in heaven and I don't understand the need to stop just because Jesus is down on terra cotta. I hope I will never stop hearing His word. Yes Jesus will reign but not all will have had a chance to accept him or deny Him. Many will still go to hell even after seeing His reign.

Now that is really hard hearted.... Just wodering...See you guys later. Most interesting!!!! patricia1

[Ovedya]

There is nothing in Revelation 3:10 that says the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air in a "secret" rapture.

"kept from the hour of trial"...plain english

it's pretty hard to be kept from something when you're right in the middle of it

you can only be proven wrong, give your silly (and evil) crusade a rest, man

You are putting words into scripture that are not there, my friend. That's cheating. Keep from the hour of trial in no way implies a pre-tribulation secret rapture.

"kept from the hour of trial" is in the Scriptures.

[Isa]

I would like to just add a note. Have you guys ever thought th day of the Lord starts at the first seal.

As the Lord opens the seals certian event happen on the earth, The Lord is the one in control of what is happening He is the one opening the seals and what comes out of those seals He controls.

God allows these events to happen so that His promises can be fullfilled. Christ is reclaiming what rightfully belongs to Him.

A day does not necessarily mean a day to the Lord as we know by what is written in His word.

2 Peter 3:8

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

I am not saying this is correct but I thought I would toss it in as food for thought.

[Massorite]

not before there is a peroid of tribulation that we will go through.

good luck, I won't be joining you...I'll take the promise of Revelation 3:10 to the Church, thank you very much

even the structure of Revelation itself makes it patently clear the Church is not here during the Tribulation, it's amazing the confusion about simple and striaghtforward doctrine

Israel --> Church --> Israel --> Kingdom Promised to Israel

plain as day, folks

Ha! You think so, huh!? There is nothing AGAIN in Revelation 3:10 that says the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air in a "secret" rapture.

I am going to stand on the words that came out of the mouth of Jesus. Matthew 24:29 "Immediatly after the tribulation of those days etc" See if you can twist that around to fit your escape theology. I don't see how Jesus could have made it more clear then that.

[Isa]

Just a query.

God seals the 144,000 who actually have to go through the hour of trial right?

Revelation 7:2-4

2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying,

[Ovedya]

There is nothing in Revelation 3:10 that says the saints will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air in a "secret" rapture.

"kept from the hour of trial"...plain english

it's pretty hard to be kept from something when you're right in the middle of it

you can only be proven wrong, give your silly (and evil) crusade a rest, man

You are putting words into scripture that are not there, my friend. That's cheating. Keep from the hour of trial in no way implies a pre-tribulation secret rapture.

"kept from the hour of trial" is in the Scriptures.

Actually, no Ovedya that is not what the scriptures say. Revelation 3:10 reads:Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall lcome upon alll the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Pre-tribbers rewrite the scripture to say: Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I also will secretly rapture you off the earth so you can escape the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

I don't see anything re-written from "I will keep you from the hour of trial."

What exactly is "the hour of trial" if not the Tribulation period?

[OneLight]

Keeping one for something could mean that they are protected from it, not excluded from it. God protects his people ... look at Moses. Did God help them escape or did he beam them to a safe place? I have not found enough evidence that there will be a pre-trib rapture. It is my hope, but I still will prepare for the time just before His Second Coming. I will have faith that Jesus will protect me in times of peril.

God Keep Us All,

OneLight

[Ovedya]

"...could mean..."