"OUR" Faith OR CHRIST'S Faith?

[Ztheberean]

The Holy Spirit teaches us by comparing scripture with scripture so that our faith

would stand in the power of God, NOT in the wisdom of men (1Cor 2:13 & 5-4)

We need to (learn how) to come from (OUR) faith (which is spoken of in all the world (Rom 1:8) to (Christ

[Fraught]

Galatians 2:20

"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

Galatians 2:17

"But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!

Amen

[Grungekid]

The Holy Spirit teaches us by comparing scripture with scripture so that our faith

would stand in the power of God, NOT in the wisdom of men (1Cor 2:13 & 5-4)

We need to (learn how) to come from (OUR) faith (which is spoken of in all the world (Rom 1:8) to (Christ

[Ztheberean]

So, what exactly is the subject? I am sorry, but it's a bit discursive, and I lost track of the main point about three paragraphs in. Are you just saying that we need to trust in Christ, and not personal abillity to believe? Or are you perhaps saying that we shouldn't focus on solely the social aspects of the church gathering?

The topic of this is if we have our own faith presently, or if we have/ or need to have the faith OF Christ. I know this is alot, but if you can ask God to go before you, and give you understanding, then He will so that you can know and ask God to take you where you need to be.

I hope I answered your question.

Z

[Grungekid]

So, what exactly is the subject? I am sorry, but it's a bit discursive, and I lost track of the main point about three paragraphs in. Are you just saying that we need to trust in Christ, and not personal abillity to believe? Or are you perhaps saying that we shouldn't focus on solely the social aspects of the church gathering?

The topic of this is if we have our own faith presently, or if we have/ or need to have the faith OF Christ. I know this is alot, but if you can ask God to go before you, and give you understanding, then He will so that you can know and ask God to take you where you need to be.

I hope I answered your question.

Z

Yes, it does, thx

[charlesj]

The Holy Spirit teaches us by comparing scripture with scripture so that our faith

would stand in the power of God, NOT in the wisdom of men (1Cor 2:13 & 5-4)

We need to (learn how) to come from (OUR) faith (which is spoken of in all the world (Rom 1:8) to (Christ’s) faith (which is spoken of only by FEW Matt 9:37, Lk 10:2, 1 Cor 4:15). (Rom 1:17) What if some don’t believe this? Shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? Are you being taught how you can have the faith OF Christ? Then you have asked God to crucify “YOU” with Christ, (and through this process of your crucifixion) it will no longer be “YOU” living (for your own self, and yours) But Christ living in you (and over you, so that you could be for others, rather than against them) (Gal 2:20); AND you will no longer call yourself a “sinner” (saved by grace) because you now understand, and have learned that God has forbidden Christ to be the minister of sin (Gal 2:17).

Hello Ztheberean:

I’m not sure what your point(s) is (are). I do agree with your starting point that we are to compare scripture with scripture. I also agree that many, when you talk to them in detail, don’t really compare scripture with scripture.

I also believe what the Messiah said when He was speaking to the Jews, “Matt 7:13, 14 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby. For narrow is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it.”

In other words, ...the road to destruction is like a four lane highway, but the path to eternal life is narrow, like a small single lane and FEW THEY ARE THAT FINE IT!

There are over 33,000 denominations and growing daily. Who is right? Who is following the Word of our Lord? “….few are they that find it.”

In your first paragraph, you mentioned Romans 1:8 and applied it to us today. No, Paul is writing to the Roman church and is speaking of “their” faith. You must remember that there were no “books” in the first century and everything was in “letter” (epistle) form. Later, many years later, these letters were put together in book form which we called the Bible today. It doesn’t take to much reading of each letter (in the bible) to tell who it was to and why it was written, etc.

So, my point is you build on a premise that is wrong and call it “our” faith. Then, you try to separate “our faith” from the “faith of Christ.” Paul tells us that there is only “one faith” in Eph 4:3,4.

In other words, when I obeyed the gospel of our Lord, I “put Christ on.” (Gal 3:27). I was “buried with Him and was raised to walk in newness of life.” (Rom 6:3ff). This was the beginning of my walk with the Lord. (Some 37 yrs ago for me)

Paul, in the context of Romans 6, starts the chapter out speaking to Christians in Rome and tells them “…are you ignorant, that when you were baptized you were baptized INTO His death? Then Paul says that baptism is a burial and “like” Christ we are raised to walk in “newness of life.” (New birth).

Christ was made a “…little lower than the angels (Heb 2:7ff) In other words, the Word became flesh (Jn 1:14) and became like a man so He could suffer and take on the sins of mankind. Revelation 1:5 tells us that Christ was the “firstborn” from the dead…” and Paul concurs with John when he says, “ …firstborn from the dead that in all things He might have preeminence.” (Col 1:18).

Jesus was “born again” from the dead. This is an interesting analogy. We too, must be born again. Jesus did not live a new and heavenly life until after His resurrection (or until ‘after’ He was born again.) We can’t either. Until we are immersed into His death and rise with Him, we cannot be partakers of a heavenly life.

Now, back to the “context” of Romans 6. Paul is speaking of baptism, what it is (burial), where it places you (INTO Christ) and what it does (raised to newness of life). Peter tells us in Acts 2:38 it’s for the “remission” (pardon) of sins.

Still, in context of this chapter (Rom 6) you mentioned Romans 6:17 and obedience. Paul is speaking, in context, of baptism, and then he says in Romans 6:17:

Rom 6:17,18 But thanks be to God, that, whereas ye were servants of sin, ye became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto ye were delivered; and being made free from sin, ye became servants of righteousness.

You say you are a “berean”, then take a look at the Greek word for “form”. It is the Greek word “tupos.” Tupos means “mold, pattern.” Paul is speaking to Roman Christians that have “obeyed from the heart ‘that form’ of doctrine…” They’ve repented to God, confessed Christ as their savior and then were buried WITH HIM. (baptism). (See Hebrews 8:5 where “tupos” is translated “pattern.” This verse alone defines “tupos.”)

One other thing, before I close. As you know, in the O.T. we see types and in the N.T. we see antitypes. For example, we learn that the Jews placed “blood” over their doorposts while in Egypt and the death angel “passed over them. “ (Passover). This is a “type.” Paul tells us of the antitype in the N.T. and says “Christ is our Passover.” (1Cor5:7)

Another type is the “rock” in the desert that provided water for the Israelites. This is a “type.” Paul tells us that the antitype in the N.T. is Christ, the Rock. (1Cor4:2)

Here is another type… THE FLOOD! Peter tells us baptism was an “antitupos” to the flood. (antitupos is the Greek word from which we get our English word “antitype.”)

Here is where Peter tells us that:

1pe3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

The English word “figure” here is translated from the Greek word “antitupon.” (or antitupos)

So, if you have “put on Christ” then you are “in the faith.”

What is the gospel? … DEATH, BURIAL, RESURRECTION. (of Christ).

That’s how “simple” the gospel is!

How do you “obey” the gospel? You repent (to God whom you’ve sinned against, 2 Cor 7:10), confess His Son as your savior, and then be baptized.

When a person obeys the gospel, they have been raised from the dead, as Christ was.

Ztheberean, may the Lord be with you and bless you. (Read Psalms 1 and memorize it. Quote it to all your friends, you will be blessed in your heart)

I do the best I can and Christ makes up the difference!

Your servant in Messiah, Jesus Christ

Semper Fi,

charlesj

Edited November 20, 2007 by charlesj

[damo1]

The Holy Spirit teaches us by comparing scripture with scripture so that our faith

would stand in the power of God, NOT in the wisdom of men (1Cor 2:13 & 5-4)

We need to (learn how) to come from (OUR) faith (which is spoken of in all the world (Rom 1:8) to (Christ