Calvin vs. Arminius

[mrs]

Thats really cool.And you're right..it is really humbling. Btw, what's TEDS stand for? For me the switchover came when I realized that people couldn't resist conviction.Then I knew it had to be predestination.Because if you can't resist, and God convicted everyone the same, then obviously everyone would have to be saved.

My dad and I are coming through Illinois in a couple weeks....maybe we'll stop at your church.

[EricH]

Thats really cool.And you're right..it is really humbling. Btw, what's TEDS stand for? For me the switchover came when I realized that people couldn't resist conviction.Then I knew it had to be predestination.Because if you can't resist, and God convicted everyone the same, then obviously everyone would have to be saved.

My dad and I are coming through Illinois in a couple weeks....maybe we'll stop at your church. 

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TEDS = Trinity Evangelical Divinity School

[mrs]

thanks.

hey, where'd everyone else go anyway? there was a book worm around here somewhere....

Has anyone read 'The Death of Death in the Death of Christ' by John Owen?

[Guest Mindy1982]

Thats really cool.And you're right..it is really humbling. Btw, what's TEDS stand for? For me the switchover came when I realized that people couldn't resist conviction.Then I knew it had to be predestination.Because if you can't resist, and God convicted everyone the same, then obviously everyone would have to be saved.

My dad and I are coming through Illinois in a couple weeks....maybe we'll stop at your church.

[Guest sdcintrurons]

Why don't I throw an idea out to stir the pot a bit?

I think that if you do not believe salvation is by the sovereign electing grace of God, then you believe in salvation by works? Why do I say this?

If election is true (which I believe Scripture teaches) then what is the difference between me and the unsaved person? The grace of God. Who gets the credit for my salvation? God does. Who gets the credit for all eternity for my presence in heaven? God does. I was dead - he made me alive.

If election is not true, what is the difference between me and the unsaved person? The difference is me - the difference is I decided to believe and he didn't. Who gets credit for my salvation? I do. Who gets credit for all eternity for my presence in heaven? I do.

After all - if there is no election - I am saved because I decided to believe the gospel and the other guy didn't - right? The difference is all me.

I like how RC Sproul puts it - "we can no more chose to receive Christ of our own accord than a corpse in a graveyard could respond to the invitation 'everyone who'd like to be raised come on out of the ground'".

How's that for stirring the pot??

Blessings,

Scott

[mrs]

Good post Scott. I agree completely.

[mrs]

So umm, I guess this thread died then? How can we wake it up?

[book_wirm]

Hi again,

I saw someone mentioned my name a few weeks ago. I haven't dissappeared and I still read the board from rare time to rare time, but his semester has been rougher than I expected. Add to that my wife, 5 children, the duties of trustee at church, and my full time job and....well, let's just say I have NO time right now to answer. Hopefully I will be able to return soon.

Oh, and nice post sdcintrurons...though I wouldn't say that denying Calvinism is akin to being lost...or denying salvation I enjoyed your allusions. There are far more doctrines out there than "God does it" and "Man does it"....many have the truth but lack the understanding of maturity.

(and remember, I DON'T consider myself a Calvinist...he and his folk weren't too kind to my folk back then. Though I would dare to say I hold stronger predestinationist views than many Calvinists )

But ultimately that does not matter...let me be a liar and God true if I am wrong about it.

In Christ,

Eric

[WillingToDie]

I hope you'll forgive me if i repeat anything that has been said already, but this thread is quite long (much longer than my attention span).

I for one am fairly Arminian, with hints of Calvinism sneaking in (probably due to the fact that I was raised Presbyterian). I had no idea how much I leaned towards the Arminian side of this debate until I read the first post. Let me just say I was surprised.

I just happened to read an article on a website today on the sovereignty of God, and it was very enlightening. The author can explain it better than I can so i hope if you don't mind my posting the link (I'd post the article itself, but it's kinda long)

link

Also, it doesn't make sense to me that Jesus' sacrifice only has enough redemptive power for a select few, that seems to me that it downplays the redemptive power of the sacrifice.

Taking that further, although there are many who would say that this is unscriptural, but it seems to me that due to Christ's death (and ressurection) that all who desire salvation receive it from God, but maybe this will change once I read further in the Bible (I'm only in Exodus right now).

Edited July 12, 2005 by arsonist

[RGR]

So umm, I guess this thread died then? How can we wake it up?

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Maybe be it was predestined to die at that point?