Slain in the Spirit!

[DjZed]

You are correct vicki. it is for another board. My excellent response was to the observance of denominations, The real question asks for scriptual proof of being slain in the spirit. Well. Anyone?

thanks for putting the board back into perspective.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

There are several other verses I just cannot find them right now.

[DjZed]

Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

There are several other verses I just cannot find them right now.

Those are not proof text for being slain in the spirit. explain your interp of these. If you had an idea about being slain in the spirit and then read these i suppose you could believe it, however im not big on reading into the text.

[HisMindinme]

Dear Brother

[LightofJesus]

It seems, bigblue, that your protestations to the phenomenon known as being "slain in the spirit" has touched quite a nerve in this thread. As a recovering Southern Baptist who has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, I can empathize with your position and fully understand just why it is not scriptural. I personally have been on both sides of this coin and it was none other than my Heavenly Father who showed me the truth of His word in a rather dramatic fashion. I have listened to the teachings of my denomination, accepting them at face value because I was a newly minted Born Again believer and surely these learned men knew much more about God's Word than I knew. As my leaders and teachers in the things of God, surely they would teach me the truth of Scripture and for the most part, they did.

However, as I studied the role of denominations within the Body of Christ, I became aware that denominations arose in opposition to a doctrine that was being taught which a certain group of people within that denomination opposed as a false teaching. An excellent example of this is the Lutheran denomination which sprang into existence through the teachings of a Roman Catholic monk named Martin Luther. It was never Luther's intention to start a new denomination, he was only interested in reforming some of the false doctrine he had spotted in the Catholic faith. However, when the Catholic Church rejected Martin Luther's teachings as heresy, the followers of Martin Luther broke from the Catholic Church and the Lutheran Denomination was formed, against the expressed wishes of Martin Luther. This denomination arose because some people disagreed with the stance an established denomination had taken on a biblical issue, feeling that their take on the subject was really God's truth. In light of this, no denomination has a corner on what God's really saying in His Word and this then leads to the position that no denomination will ever fully mature in the Lord because they cannot be taught the deeper things of God which contradicts with their established doctrine.

Whenever a denomination or an individual ceases to to be able to be taught the deeper things of God simply because such a teaching goes against their own denomination's take on the subject, they have reached the maximum level of their spiritual maturation. Since we are not omniscient beings, we can never know the full depth of God's mysteries on our own. We need to be taught "line upon line, precept upon precept" as Isaiah taught in the 28th chapter of his book, verse 10. The Person who does this is the Holy Spirit, yet many a Christian will not accept the deeper teachings of the Spirit, especially when such teachings are contrary to their denominational teachings. Yet the denominational teachings are not infallible because the denomination, being formed by men, cannot be an omnicient being in its own right. When Satan has placed false doctrine in a denomination (and he has done it in every denomination) and these false doctrines have been accepted as the very truth of God by that denomination, it takes the power of the Holy Spirit to blast that denomination out of its error. This has such an adverse effect on the people within that denomination who have accepted the false doctrine introduced by Satan as the very truth of God, that the denomination dare not change course. Therefore, the arguments defending the error within a denimination are mounted by the leaders and teachers within that denomination to prove that their view is the only true view on that particular subject. Discussions become heated, Scripture becomes twisted, the false doctrines become more firmly embedded within the fabric of the denomination as they are firmly believed to be not a false doctrine, but the true doctrine from the Word of God. And they will prove their stance by Scripture, often quoting Scripture totally out of context in order to prove a preconcieved point of view is true, not false. Thus we have the dust-up that is evidenced in this thread.

For example, bigblue offered up the opinion that the last verse in 1 Corinthians 14 was talking about order in the worship service, yet this is not the context of that verse. 1 Corinthians 14 is all about the proper use of the gifts of the Spirit and is essentially a continuation of 1 Corinthians 12. The love chapter, 1 Corinthians 13 is essentially a parenthetical chapter that inserts the subject of God's love in the middle of a discussion on the gifts of the Spirit to the Body of Christ and their proper usage. It is necessary because the only way you can properly utilize the gifts of the Spirit is with the love of God, the Agape kind of love. However, you can put parenthesis around the entire 13th chapter of 1 Corinthians, temporarly move it to one side and then read Chapter 12 and continue with Chapter 14. The subject matter continues without a hitch, winding up with Paul admonishing the Corinthians that the use of the gifts of the Spirit should be done decently and in order. Nowhere in the context of 1 Corinthians 12 or 14 is the worship service discussed, only the gifts of the Holy Spirit, what they are and how they should be utilized within corporate worship. Therefore the utilization of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the main thrust of 1 Corinthians 14, not the form of corporate worship. That is only incidental to the utilization of the gifts, hence 1 Corinthians 14:39-40 is speaking of the utilization of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, not laying down guidelines for corporate worship. In this context, Sherman is right and bigblue is wrong in the opinions they have separately expressed. Sorry, bigblue that your denominational toes have been stomped on, but that is the fate of those who will not let the Holy Spirit teach them the deeper things of God because such things are counter to what their denomination teaches on that subject.

I have read many of these posts and am so glad to have come to this post. I have never heard or read something so God in response to this subject!!! God is so much bigger than many of us allow Him to be. We have not come close to all of Him yet and I believe that scripture is only an outline of what God has in store for us. I for one want all He has to give, but this is also a frightening thing cause the closer we get to God the more we see how we are dirtbags. Just to put it simple. We are so close to an explosive act of God and we want to wonder if God can slay us in the Spirit. Well He can do whatever He wants. So try and just let God be God all by Himself and watch the wonders of God in our very lives and those around us. He will if we let Him!!!!

[Phil.2:12]

From Vickilynn: Just curious but why do you single out bigblue and not the others who have posted against this this experience? How about Overdya or HisMindInMe? How about the OP of this thread? No rebuttal to them or their positions, only bigblue?

An excellent question, Vickilynn, and one that I will try to answer for you. When I read bigblue's posting, I could see myself walking down that same path earlier in my Christian life, for I once believed just as bigblue and the other posters that do not not have any use for the phenomenon called "slain in the spirit", a term that is not found in Scripture per se, but is the Pentecostal explaination for the experience of being on the ground under the power of the Holy Spirit. So why bigblue and not the others? Because I empathized most with bigblue in his journey as it is so close to the journey I also travelled as a young Christian. Besides, when you've answered one critic, you are also answering the others as well, in a sense.

As for your other questions in your response to my post, I have neither the time nor the inclination to deal with them for if I were to do this, my post would be very far off from the intent of the OP since it would be dealing with your specific questions and not the topic of the OP. This sort of posting goes on too much in the posts within Worthy Boards and does not accomplish anything but allow two, or more, individuals to bicker and argue and that never enhances the subject of any of the OP's that appear here on Worthy Boards. I do not want to inflate my post count with posts that serve no better purpose than to give in to bickering or arguing with fellow posters. This adds nothing but length to the thread as no real meaningful information is exchanged either in bickering or arguing.

As far as the phenomenon called "slain in the spirit" is concerned, you will look in vain for that phrase within Scripture. So to ask for Book, Chapter, and Verse of such a phrase is an exercise in futility and those asking that question usually know that their question cannot be answered by Book, Chapter, and Verse within the Scriptures. It is a clever trap designed to show that there is no Scriptural basis for the phenomenon of being "slain in the Spirit", therefore such a phenomenon cannot be Scriptural and can be rejected out of hand by the Christian who "knows better" than to believe such foolishness.

However, the concept of being "slain in the Spirit" is indeed a Scriptural concept. It is just not called by the name of "slain in the Spirit". In fact, when this phenomenon is shown in Scripture, there is no name or phrase used to identify the phenomenon that is happening. For example, the priests who were in Soloman's temple just after it was completed found themselves on the floor of that temple when the Glory of the Lord came into the temple. Not a man was standing! Whether they fell face forward or backward is of no importance. What is important is that they were not standing when the Glory of God filled the temple. When one today is "slain in the Spirit", they are not standing under the power of God that hits them, but will find themselves on the floor. Again the position, either face forward or backwards, is irrelevant. They are not still standing when the power of God hits them. Can this phenomenon be abused? Of course! And it routinely is by emotional Christians who feel that everytime they go forward for prayer they must prove that God really touched them and this accomplished by falling down. In pastoral circles, this emotional dropping to the floor is known as a "courtesy drop". Nothing worse than a high-powered, emotional evangelist winding up a meeting sweating and puffing and no one in the prayer line drops to the floor when he touches them.

Another Scriptural account is given in the Garden of Gethsemene when the priests come with the soldiers to arrest Jesus. In John's Gospel, the following account is recorded.

Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons. Jesus therefore, knowing all things that shall come upon Him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered Him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed Him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. (John 18:3-6, KJV).

Notice that the personal pronoun "he" is italicized in both verse 5 and verse 6. That means that in the original Greek, the word "he" does not appear but was inserted by the translators of the King James version of Scripture to clarify the thought they felt Jesus was trying to convey. But they did us a great disservice, for if you read the answer of Jesus without the inserted pronoun, it reads I am. From the account of Moses at the burning bush we learn that the name God gave Moses when he asked God what his name was is the simple I am for God is the God of the Present, not the past or the future. In fact God told Moses to tell the people that I am that I am had sent Moses on this mission. So, there in the Garden of Gethsemene, Jesus told the chief priests and the soldiers that He was the great I am, the very God of the universe, for He used the very name God had given to Moses. No wonder everybody fell backward at the mention of God's holy name! Again, the power of God, just as when His glory filled the temple, caused men to be prone on the ground when they should, by all rights, have been standing. Is the phrase "slain in the spirit" used here in John to describe this phenomenon? Of course not, but that is exactly the experience of those who have truly fallen under the power of God. They simply cannot stand upright. I hope, Vickilynn, that the above explanation from Scripture will satisfy the condition that I address the OP within my posts.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

Mat 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.

Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

There are several other verses I just cannot find them right now.

Those are not proof text for being slain in the spirit. explain your interp of these. If you had an idea about being slain in the spirit and then read these i suppose you could believe it, however im not big on reading into the text.

These people were down....obviously on the ground for an undertimined amount of time. Being "as dead" they obviously weren't fully concious to what was going on around them. I came from a united methodist background honey and these were some of the first scriptures I was shown on it having no clue what it was. You know what. It has never happend to me, but I will absolutely not deny it.

[Vickilynn]

From Vickilynn: Just curious but why do you single out bigblue and not the others who have posted against this this experience? How about Overdya or HisMindInMe? How about the OP of this thread? No rebuttal to them or their positions, only bigblue?

An excellent question, Vickilynn, and one that I will try to answer for you. When I read bigblue's posting, I could see myself walking down that same path earlier in my Christian life, for I once believed just as bigblue and the other posters that do not not have any use for the phenomenon called "slain in the spirit", a term that is not found in Scripture per se, but is the Pentecostal explaination for the experience of being on the ground under the power of the Holy Spirit. So why bigblue and not the others? Because I empathized most with bigblue in his journey as it is so close to the journey I also travelled as a young Christian. Besides, when you've answered one critic, you are also answering the others as well, in a sense.

Shalom Phil,

Thanks for your reply, however as I read bigblue's posts, they do not sound like a "journey", but simply posting his beliefs from Scripture as the rest of us are doing. And from what I read in this thread, bigblue is not even posting as much as Ovedya, Matthew, HisMindInMe and others who believe that being "slain in the spirit" is not Scriptural but rather experiential.

And you directed your personal remarks to bigblue, as well as your accusations of his walk. So, no, your comments were not to the general readers. I'm just pointing out that your remarks were definitely off-topic and counter-productive to this discussion.

As for your other questions in your response to my post, I have neither the time nor the inclination to deal with them for if I were to do this, my post would be very far off from the intent of the OP

Well you were inclined to make them in the first place. Once you post something publicly, you should be prepared to be accountable for them. If you have the inclination to make these comments, others have the right to hold you accountable.

As for "off-topic", like your posts on the fact that you are a "recovering" Southern Baptist and all the anti-denominational words? Good call, getting back to the topic of being slain in the spirit topic. Thank you. I believe this thread will benefit from your decision.

However, the concept of being "slain in the Spirit" is indeed a Scriptural concept.

And that is what we are discussing, not the gifts in general, not being an EX-Baptist, and not accusing people of not being open to the Holy Spirit if they do not believe this is a Scriptural concept.

For the record, I am an EX-Pentecostal and I was born-again and believed that being "slain in the spirit" was supposed to be real and Scriptural and what they were teaching me was supposed to be the truth. However, in my years of real study and walking as a Believer for 30 years, I have since left the Charismatic and Pentecostal doctrines which I consider faulty and become firmly grounded in the WORD and not in experiences.

I do not believe what is being passed off as "slain in the spirit" in some circles is actually anything other than manipulation.

Are there real experiences? Possibly. But, what is being promoted and what we see are most times flesh.

We are in the presence of the L-rd all the time if we have the Holy Spirit dwelling in us (born-again) and yet we can all usually stand up. Why should it be promoted that only under certain circumstances, G-d's presence will knock us over?

As for the examples, these people were not indwelt by the Holy Spirit, as born-again Believers are today.

[HisMindinme]

From Vickilynn: Just curious but why do you single out bigblue and not the others who have posted against this this experience? How about Overdya or HisMindInMe? How about the OP of this thread? No rebuttal to them or their positions, only bigblue?

I am curious as well Vickilynn.

As far as the phenomenon called "slain in the spirit" is concerned, you will look in vain for that phrase within Scripture. So to ask for Book, Chapter, and Verse of such a phrase is an exercise in futility and those asking that question usually know that their question cannot be answered by Book, Chapter, and Verse within the Scriptures. It is a clever trap designed to show that there is no Scriptural basis for the phenomenon of being "slain in the Spirit", therefore such a phenomenon cannot be Scriptural and can be rejected out of hand by the Christian who "knows better" than to believe such foolishness.

However, the concept of being "slain in the Spirit" is indeed a Scriptural concept. It is just not called by the name of "slain in the Spirit". In fact, when this phenomenon is shown in Scripture, there is no name or phrase used to identify the phenomenon that is happening.

I agree that asking for Book, Chapter and Verse is an incomplete request. However, incompleteness does not negate the purpose of asking. Important matters in scripture are directly named and pointed out. The matter of "slain in the Spirit" is not directly named, but indirectly substantiated, which is precisely what "Phil" is going to do in the following quotes. This indirection appears to be an attempt to bring "slain in the Spirit" to the same level as direct matters such as: baptism, laying on of hands, prayer, giving, and the Lord's supper. This form of substantiation is just plain wrong. "Phil" will later point out how the matter is abused in churches and goes a step beyond my knowing in the inner circles of pastors and evangelists and what they think of the matter (abusively speaking).

For example, the priests who were in Soloman's temple just after it was completed found themselves on the floor of that temple when the Glory of the Lord came into the temple. Not a man was standing! Whether they fell face forward or backward is of no importance. What is important is that they were not standing when the Glory of God filled the temple.

So, what appears to be of INDIRECT importance to "Phil" is that no one was standing when the Glory of God filled the temple. Alright, let's let that stand for a moment. What else happened when the Glory of God filled the temple?

2Ch 5:13 and they were as one to the trumpeters and to the singers, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking Jehovah; and as they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of music, and praised Jehovah, saying, For He is good, for His mercy endures forever, the house was filled with a cloud, the house of Jehovah,

2Ch 5:14 so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of Jehovah had filled the house of God!

"Phil" is only sharing PART of the story. He points at how they could not stand to minister, but he leaves out the CLOUD. There was a cloud that filled the temple. So, if we're to bring this OT example into the NT church and follow the example, then we not only need people being "slain in the Spirit", but we need a Glory of God CLOUD there as well.

I can tell you that in more than 20 years of being a Pentecostal "Christian" and watching people be "slain in the Spirit" and being that way myself many times, NOT ONCE did I ever experience a CLOUD of the Glory of God and the Presence of the Lord. NEVER! So, what am I to conclude? What I am to gather from this?

On one side I have hyper-emotional preachers and evangelists screaming, "GLORY!" and expecting people to fall over "under the power" and the back-up to this are people pointing at 2 Chronicles 5:13 (Book, Chapter and Verse). One the other, I see a fuller REALITY of what the scripture actually says.

THIS is precisely what I mean when I say that Christians are just as human as ever and go about making this nonsense up as they go based on emotional feeding of the lusts of the flesh!

When one today is "slain in the Spirit", they are not standing under the power of God that hits them, but will find themselves on the floor. Again the position, either face forward or backwards, is irrelevant. They are not still standing when the power of God hits them.

Really? Book, Chapter and Verse please! New Testament Please!

Can this phenomenon be abused? Of course! And it routinely is by emotional Christians who feel that everytime they go forward for prayer they must prove that God really touched them and this accomplished by falling down. In pastoral circles, this emotional dropping to the floor is known as a "courtesy drop". Nothing worse than a high-powered, emotional evangelist winding up a meeting sweating and puffing and no one in the prayer line drops to the floor when he touches them.

Excellently said, but not said nearly to the full degree of what goes on! "Phil" writes, "emotional Christians who feel that everytime [sic] they go forward for prayer they must prove that God really touched them and this accomplished by falling down."

So, the qualification for abuse is "... everytime [sic] they go forward ...": In other words, it is only abuse if a person feels the need to fall out under the Spirit or Power EVERY TIME they go forward for prayer. Nonsense. That it happens as a regularly schedule event on the revival circuit is a clue. But even THAT is not enough said of it. What is deeper still is how the matter is largely emotional lust feeding and THAT is the key and core of it.

The Jews in Chronicles were not under some emotional hyper-drive and falling out because it happened as a regular event at the Temple. This was God coming down in a very real form, witnessed as a CLOUD of presence and the reality of that was they were unable to stand and minister, because God was there in a special way for His purpose and NOT to tickle their flesh and lusts with emotional goosepimples!

Another qualification for abuse is "... they must prove that God really touched them ...". I agree with this wholeheartedly, but let's be clear on a matter with this. Being "slain in the Spirit" is simply a vehicle to carry someone to a purpose: lust feeding on thoughts and emotions, with actions and words following the blueprint of the thoughts and emotions. What do I mean by that in this context?

Proving is something like being defensive. Defensiveness is not always wrong and neither is Proving (i.e. 2Co 13:5 "... prove your own selves ..." -- OR -- Php 1:7 "... and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel ..."). What makes defensiveness or proving "wrong"? When it is driven by our human mind enslaved to our lusts. Thoughts, emotions, words and actions who are sourced from the Mind of Christ in us ARE in their very essence, righteous. They can be proved and they can be defended in righteousness from the Mind of Christ in us. Human thoughts, human emotions and the words and actions based on them are already sinful by nature: The mind in us and of us is enslaved to our lusts of our flesh by default.

I am simply attempting to point out how, I have yet to find a contemporary experience of "slain in the Spirit" that is NOT suspicious to me -- and that is after nearly 24 years of going to church and revival meetings week after week!

I am NOT saying that such a thing cannot take place: NOT in the slightest way am I attempting to communicate that people cannot have a response to the Holy Spirit and presence of the Lord God where they fall down in His presence. What I am saying is the basis for making this a regular part of a church service or revival service is largely invented and suspicious -- TO ME!

You all have your own conscience before the Lord Jesus Christ. Deal with it.

Another Scriptural account is given in the Garden of Gethsemene when the priests come with the soldiers to arrest Jesus. In John's Gospel, the following account is recorded.

NOTE: I am pleasantly surprised to find someone who sees how Jesus referred to Himself in the I AM term. What a great thing to know.

The writer "Phil" goes on to point out how the soldiers "fell back" when Jesus used the term I AM (ego eimi). The following quote is from Dr. Jay P. Greene, Sr.'s Literal Translation. From the Dr. Greene translation, I am pointing out how not everyone "fell out under the power of the Spirit" or presence when Jesus said, "I AM." Only a select few. Whether by oversight or other, it is misleading to portray the encounter as "everyone fell out under the power." What is even more fallicious is to attempt to link this to the common practice in many Pentecostal circles (I am a pentacostal by the way) of "slain in the Spirit."

Joh 18:3 Then receiving a cohort and under-officers from among the chief priests and the Pharisees, Judas came there with torches and lamps and weapons.

Joh 18:4 Then knowing all the things coming upon Him, going forth, Jesus said to them, Whom do you seek?

Joh 18:5 They answered Him, Jesus the Nazarene. Jesus said to them, I AM! And Judas, the one betraying Him, also stood with them.

Joh 18:6 Then when He said to them, I AM, they departed into the rear and fell to the ground.

Who is "they" in verse 6? They is: "... a cohort and under-officers from among the chief priests and the Pharisees, ..."

The "they" was NOT everyone except Jesus. Notice this, and please notice is well. Not only this, but this was not a church service filled with people on the emotional band-wagon, shouting rah-rah-rah-sis-boom-bah-for-Jesus! These were men coming to get Christ to take Him away to suffer, die and rise again for OUR SINS! To equate this "falling down" with the normal routine happening in MANY Pentecostal churches is just insane -- in my lil' ole' human opinion.

[Phil.2:12]

I am happy to be of service to those who feel it necessary to criticize my personal experiences. If you will check, you will find that the majority of those who have been my strongest critics are, for want of a better term "recovering Pentecostals" who have an axe to grind concerning the "slain in the Spirit" phenomenon that is so blatantly abused within Pentecostal circles. I personally have as much use for such fleshly abuses as my critics have, that is none. But the experiences I have had with the Holy Spirit are personal to me. I am not tooting some denomination's horn concerning what they think is the proper definition of being "slain in the Spirit", but rather my own journey with the Holy Spirit. As a matter of fact, in my 48 years as a Born-Again Christian, I have found myself on the floor only once when the power of God hit me and I was unable to continue to stand. So, I am not dropping out needlessly or repeatedly, as is so often the case in Pentecostal circles.

What I have posted is simply my experiences and the explanations for my experiences that I have found in God's Word, nothing more, nothing less. Could I be wrong? Of course I could be, but I sincerely don't think so and none of my critics have said anything that would change my mind. Please take my posts for what they are, my earnest desire to hear my Heavenly Father on subjects that I run accross in my journey down the path that Jesus has blazed. I want to share them with others who are seeking just as I have been and still do the wonders of the Born-Again life in Jesus.