DjZed Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1973 Share Posted January 1, 2008 okay so are we dispensible or not? Let us say Noah was called and instructed...and Noah replied NO! Would Jesus find someone else? I an getting a better understanding of what is being said.. in romans 8-30 i am not sure I am understanding all of the explanation. If what I read I believe what is being said is that one is discussing Jesus as being predestined and His work.. but I find some counfusion in the plurality of the pronouns being used. Jeus's work is done and even He I am sure was given a choice as well as he also, knowing what had to be done asked His Father if there be any other way..to pass this cup. All have a function in the kingdom of God whether they acknowledge it or not. Ceaser, judas, pharoah. Jesus I KNOW had a hand on me since a child , but was not aware until I met up with Him. What if I never came to know Him then I was not predestined.? Cant say if he would have chosen someoneelse. if he did it would mean the same for the redemption of man. Yes christ did lay down his own life. My opinion is that yes even the wicked are chosen fo their role. And yes you would have been predestined, but for wrath not salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjZed Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1973 Share Posted January 1, 2008 okay so are we dispensible or not? Let us say Noah was called and instructed...and Noah replied NO! Would Jesus find someone else? I an getting a better understanding of what is being said.. in romans 8-30 i am not sure I am understanding all of the explanation. If what I read I believe what is being said is that one is discussing Jesus as being predestined and His work.. but I find some counfusion in the plurality of the pronouns being used. Jeus's work is done and even He I am sure was given a choice as well as he also, knowing what had to be done asked His Father if there be any other way..to pass this cup. All have a function in the kingdom of God whether they acknowledge it or not. Ceaser, judas, pharoah. Jesus I KNOW had a hand on me since a child , but was not aware until I met up with Him. What if I never came to know Him then I was not predestined.? Cant say if he would have chosen someoneelse. if he did it would mean the same for the redemption of man. Yes christ did lay down his own life. My opinion is that yes even the wicked are chosen fo their role. And yes you would have been predestined, but for wrath not salvation. still chosen. Jonah did say no, didnt matter,god had his role layed out. he still moaned in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjZed Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1973 Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) okay so are we dispensible or not? Let us say Noah was called and instructed...and Noah replied NO! Would Jesus find someone else? I an getting a better understanding of what is being said.. in romans 8-30 i am not sure I am understanding all of the explanation. If what I read I believe what is being said is that one is discussing Jesus as being predestined and His work.. but I find some counfusion in the plurality of the pronouns being used. Jeus's work is done and even He I am sure was given a choice as well as he also, knowing what had to be done asked His Father if there be any other way..to pass this cup. All have a function in the kingdom of God whether they acknowledge it or not. Ceaser, judas, pharoah. Jesus I KNOW had a hand on me since a child , but was not aware until I met up with Him. What if I never came to know Him then I was not predestined.? Look at the parable of the wedding feast. Matthew 22:2-10 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. What Jesus did for mankind was his choice to do. I am glad that he did, but man was born with the ability to choose to come to the cross and partake of the blood of Jesus. All are invited to the come to the marriage and as this parable shows, there are some that will not answer the call. that depends on the camp of thought you fall into. is all, all the world? Is it all the jews. Who does the king send for . Who are those in the byways?it is a dispensational view mixed with arminian thought. Not knocking it. Just Know many intrpt differently. I'm not sure that verse has to do with mans rejection but the rejection of those who were origanally to attend. Isreal. Edited January 1, 2008 by DjZed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjZed Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1973 Share Posted January 1, 2008 This doesnt tell me that man has a choice. It shows me that he who believes recieves no condemned and he who doesnt believe is condemned already. If faith is a gift. then this believing is in response not in choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjZed Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1973 Share Posted January 1, 2008 If your still responding i will check back tom.sometime.I was too busy enjoying to want to got bed. The kids will be up soon.and im bummin.sleepy time. thanks cardcap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getat151 Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/20/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 1, 2008 WHAT Djzed said is exactly what im saying.........i didnt choose to believe in jesus.......i heard sermon after sermon and didnt believe....then all of a sudden i felt his spirit come over me...and it was gods spirit in me that confessed jesus as my lord and savior not my personal choice.....i think god always sets out a choice...but he also says no one seeks after him...not one so...in his mercy he sends his spirit to convict and save the ones that were predestined for glorification... and in the end the ones that didnt follow god get to see they had a choice but out of there wickedness they "chose" not to belive...but if you think about it they just didnt recieve the gift of faith... this is a guess based on my interpretation of scripture............but i also see scriptures that see to go the other way.....like people that get saved then fall away....they couldnt of been predestined to get the holy spirit just to greive it right?.....so this leaves me with a bit of confusion lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjZed Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1973 Share Posted January 1, 2008 early in my christian walk i wrote these lyrics. "I dont just wake up and make up my mind." This was approx. 4 years into my walk. this was a time when i starting to really study the scripture. A friend of mine starting showing me what i like to call the doctrines of grace. I think he knew me well enough he introduced them without using words like calvinism arminianism. Then i began going to a pca church. they introduced me to the terminoligy. This church was covenantal, post-mill,theonimists. This in my opinion is a scary road. This is when i bagan seeing the huge diff.between denom. Now 14 years into it i still am at a pca church. I battle this often. I am not covenantal and the pca is. But it is the love for the brethren, not my thinking i'm right that is at hand. I stay because i am dedicated to a people not an organization with set doctrine on subjects. I, in the beggining, did stay because of what people call "calvinism". As i said i prefer" the doctrines of grace."I do think that these core beliefs are drastically diff. One thinks that the other discredits gods character. The other one says no you discredit the character of god. WOW. the character of god is very core.What do we believe about the character of god? We have a church in kansas city and the pastor threre has a call in show on p.b.s. he is very staunch in his arminian veiw. Most arminians dont know they are arminian in there thought. He is staunch. His arguments are excellent. I'm not convinced. But he is extremely studied. When we look at the subject of pre destination. we are really asking does god elect salvation or does man choose salvation. The scripture does say. We were unable to please him when we were seperated from him. not even able to do so. Would not the choice to follow god fall into pleasing god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricia1 Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,858 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/24/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/23/1957 Share Posted January 1, 2008 on eagles wings~~ I agree with what you have said. Our refusal to believe brings the consequence of our actions all to the sadness of Gods heart. He does not destine us to fail. Our decisions do! I have preached on the wedding banquet and the point is that those God knew, You do not send out invitations to those you do not know, were too busy with what God blessed them with they had no time for the Blesser. I do not look at it as a 'Who were they" in the sense spoke of here. The idea that people are too busy for God and sometimes with what God gave them They forget about Him!!! This of course is the way The Holy Spirit showed me when I did the teachin/preaching. I could be wrong and heard wrong. Somehow it move people to repentance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutzrein Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 305 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/22/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/12/1950 Share Posted January 1, 2008 WHAT Djzed said is exactly what im saying.........i didnt choose to believe in jesus.......i heard sermon after sermon and didnt believe....then all of a sudden i felt his spirit come over me...and it was gods spirit in me that confessed jesus as my lord and savior not my personal choice.....i think god always sets out a choice...but he also says no one seeks after him...not one so...in his mercy he sends his spirit to convict and save the ones that were predestined for glorification... and in the end the ones that didnt follow god get to see they had a choice but out of there wickedness they "chose" not to belive...but if you think about it they just didnt recieve the gift of faith... this is a guess based on my interpretation of scripture............but i also see scriptures that see to go the other way.....like people that get saved then fall away....they couldnt of been predestined to get the holy spirit just to greive it right?.....so this leaves me with a bit of confusion lol... Don't you understand that what you receive from God when you are born again, is life. No one - physically or spiritually can choose to receive life because they are DEAD. When a person's name is written in the book of life they are destined to receive life. Receiving life (eternal) is being born into God's kingdom. Once they have received the gift of life, THEN they have a choice as to what they do with the gift. Some to eternal reward and some to eternal punishment. The parables relate to these people (those in the kingdom) - not all of mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjZed Posted January 1, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 42 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/24/1973 Share Posted January 1, 2008 (edited) okay so are we dispensible or not? Let us say Noah was called and instructed...and Noah replied NO! Would Jesus find someone else? I an getting a better understanding of what is being said.. in romans 8-30 i am not sure I am understanding all of the explanation. If what I read I believe what is being said is that one is discussing Jesus as being predestined and His work.. but I find some counfusion in the plurality of the pronouns being used. Jeus's work is done and even He I am sure was given a choice as well as he also, knowing what had to be done asked His Father if there be any other way..to pass this cup. All have a function in the kingdom of God whether they acknowledge it or not. Ceaser, judas, pharoah. Jesus I KNOW had a hand on me since a child , but was not aware until I met up with Him. What if I never came to know Him then I was not predestined.? Cant say if he would have chosen someoneelse. if he did it would mean the same for the redemption of man. Yes christ did lay down his own life. My opinion is that yes even the wicked are chosen fo their role. And yes you would have been predestined, but for wrath not salvation. God has not chosen any one for wrath,we bring wrath upon ourselves,by not accepting the free gift of salvation offered to ALL who will receive it. Read romans Vessels i believe. god has predestined them for wrath. That is what they were made for,lest they repent. But has predestined the elect for restoration to himself. That elect will repent. Predestined us for glory! predestination will be determined by the way we look at the scripture. One camp says isreal and the church are the same, the other says the church and isreal are completly distinct. I hold to a place in the middle. Not the same, yet not completly diff. So my intrp will be diff on the wedding feast and romans both. Edited January 1, 2008 by DjZed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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