Unusual issue I'm dealing with

[Cerebrus]

Alright I would've posted this in another section but apparentally it won't let me so here goes.

First off if you answer please tell me your basic beliefs!! Nothing against anyone but I want to know whether I'm getting answered by a unitarian or a reformed evangelical (the latter is what I'm hoping for...)

Anyways. I'm a believer have been for about 9 years or so, I'm 19 years old. This is fairly long but I hope someone will bother reading it. I'd appreciate it!

Throughout high school I was really introverted and shy and insecure. I always second guessed myself, worried a ton about what others thought of me and I was absolutely terrible with girls. Then I got rejected by a friend of mine my junior year. It was tough, but thankfully I got over it pretty quickly, I think I was more in love with the idea of being rejected than actually with the girl (sounds strange I'm sort of a poetry nut if that helps explain it--John Donne, Shakespeare, these things mess with your mind )

Anyways. I realized I'd had enough. I'd always felt so inhibited and though I know some people would say that I should be happy with "being myself" I honestly didn't feel like "myself". My parents told me that I'd actually been extremely outgoing and extroverted up until I got into the French school system in 1st grade (which if you don't know is extremely strict and comformist encouraging) at which time I quite literally "clammed up".

So I was determined to change one way or another. I saw my other guy friends who were totally care free and had beautiful girls chasing them like crazy--and it wasn't that they were better looking than me either. I know some will argue that that's not the most important thing in life, and I know it isn't, but yes it's very important to me. It doesn't help that I've always been ridiculously picky, but I knew I had to get to where I deserved the sort of quality girl I wanted. So... I wanted to change...

Anyways I prayed a lot about. A lot. A whole whole lot. And finally I stumbled by chance on something that really changed my perspective. It was an article comparing "nice guy" attributes with "real men" attributes. Talked a lot about how feminism had turned a lot of guys into sort of scared insecure drones who are so afraid to offend a girl that they don't make any sort of move and are so "in their head" so to speak that they're basically incapable of acting confidently in life. Needless to say this spoke to me immensely. It was like reading a biography of me.

So... I determined to change, I started forcing myself out constantly, talking to strangers on the street, forcing myself to go up to the most stuck up, intimidating, beautiful women out there just to get "out of my head" so to speak. And the thing is, it started working... I'm still in the process right now, but I've already started changing a lot.

Anyways during these past few months while this has been going on I've been reading a lot about various psychological aspects of personality, and change and such. One thing I stumbled across was something called the "Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. He's labeled a "spiritual teacher" but a lot of it is just pure psychology. There is some influence from the concept of "Zen" in Bhuddism though.

Anyways, basically he makes the point that in many major religions telling people to "behave" in one way or another often doesn't work and I'd certainly found that to be true in my own life. I prayed all the time about it, trying not to be so critical of others, pessimistic etc... but I never got anywhere. Tolle suggested being "unreactive" as a way to behave better.

Tolle's principles could be summarized as such:

1. You are not your thoughts. You are the awareness behind the thoughts. Thoughts are often negative and painful, yearning for or fearing something in the future, complaining about something in the present or fearing a matter from the past. However, the thoughts are not you, although your ego wants you to think that. Awareness of your thoughts without being caught up in them is the first step to freedom.

2. Only the present moment exists. That is where life is (indeed it is the only place life can truly be found). Becoming aware of the 'now' has the added benefit that it will draw your attention away from your (negative) thoughts. Use mindfulness techniques to fully appreciate your surroundings and everything you are experiencing. Look and listen intently. Give full attention to the smallest details.

3. Accept the present moment. It is resistance to the present moment that creates most of the difficulties in your life. However, acceptance does not mean that you cannot take action to rectify the situation you are in. What is important is to drop resistance so that you let the moment be, and that any action arises from deeper awareness rather than from resistance. The vast majority of pain in a person's life comes from resistance to what is.

4. Years of conditioned thought patterns, individually and collectively, have resulted in habitual emotional reactions with an apparent personality of their own. During 'pain attacks' we become completely identified with this 'pain identity' and respond from its agenda--which is to create more pain for ourselves and others. Observing the pain-body is awareness itself arising--as it allows humans to separate from this unconscious identification with pain.

Anyways I tried applying these ideas and started changing even faster. I now get in far less fights with my family (used to happen all the time) and women are incredibly responsive to me because instead of getting embroiled in some argument or "test" I simply lay back, take it easy and laugh it off. I hardly ever get seriously angry anymore at the petty things that used to bother me all the time. It's really amazing.

Now my problem is this: a lot of the psychology stuff I've been reading comes back again and again to the idea of "self esteem" and "entitlement". A lot of it is about "drawing strength from within". Basically, people who feel like they are generally "worthy" of X -be it a good business, a nice car, an amazing girl- get it, simply because they're confident about it. They still might face hardships, but they don't focus on them because they know they'll reach their goal come hell or high water.

So... I'm a bit conflicted inside because I feel like I've been improving in many areas of my life but not by relying purely on God. True, I prayed for help from God in these areas, but what ended up helping me was not prayer or meditating on scripture or whatever. I feel a bit disturbed that after years of making almost no progress in my problems with anger, negative attitudes etc. despite praying and reading the bible and everything I've suddenly changed greatly for the better thanks to secular psychological principles. Also the idea of self-esteem seems counter to the idea of being humble and relying purely on Jesus' power. Should I be worried about this??

Any advice, comments greatly appreciated.

Edited February 3, 2008 by Cerebrus

[Yahsway]

Welcome to Worthy!

May I ask who is Jesus/Yeshua to you? Im a bit confused about your post. As a believer in the Messiah Yeshua, it is not I that lives, but He that lives in and thru me. I have been crucified with Him, so my self-esteem means nothing.

I am glad that you have been able to overcome your anger issues and negative attitudes. If I may ask, for what would you rely on Yeshuas power for in your life? Are you born-again?

[Cerebrus]

Welcome to Worthy!

May I ask who is Jesus/Yeshua to you? Im a bit confused about your post. As a believer in the Messiah Yeshua, it is not I that lives, but He that lives in and thru me. I have been crucified with Him, so my self-esteem means nothing.

I am glad that you have been able to overcome your anger issues and negative attitudes. If I may ask, for what would you rely on Yeshuas power for in your life? Are you born-again?

yeah sorry for not making that clear.

yes I trust jesus as my lord and savior.

When I became a christian I felt tremendous relief knowing that regardless of what happened in my life I was "safe" so to speak. Nothing could hurt me because I was one of God's own. I still feel that way of course.

What bothers me is that a lot of really bad behavior that I didn't see change despite my praying for it all the time. In the end, it was secular "resources" that helped me. Now I guess I could still see this as God's action because I did PRAY for it... but I don't know... it just kind of bothered me.

Edited February 3, 2008 by Cerebrus

[Yahsway]

Thanks Cerebrus, You know, there are many of us as believers who still have issues. Believe me, I still get angry at times and I can have a fit of carnality at times as well. I am not pefect, just saved by His grace.

There are many secular resources that help people. Take for example AA, yes they do have a 12 step program and they even give credit to God but this is still considered a secular help program.

Each one of us has to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling as the scripture states. I would caution you however on the zen-buddisim stuff as it is considered a religon and has its roots in paganism. But I suspect you know this from reading your post that you are bothered by the fact that it was this secular resource that helped you.

You know that sanctification is a process. And you also know that the flesh and the spirit are emnity to one another and we will always war in some area of our lives until we recieve our glorified bodies.

Try and apply the scripture to your life. Its not enough just to meditate on the word but put action behind it. You might see a difference there.

This scripture has helped me in the past and i would lke to share it with you.

Phillipians 4:8

Finally, brethren (Cerebrus), whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy-meditate on these things.

Shalom to you!

[Yahsway]

Thanks Cerebrus, You know, there are many of us as believers who still have issues. Believe me, I still get angry at times and I can have a fit of carnality at times as well. I am not pefect, just saved by His grace.

There are many secular resources that help people. Take for example AA, yes they do have a 12 step program and they even give credit to God but this is still considered a secular help program.

Each one of us has to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling as the scripture states. I would caution you however on the zen-buddisim stuff as it is considered a religon and has its roots in paganism. But I suspect you know this from reading your post that you are bothered by the fact that it was this secular resource that helped you.

You know that sanctification is a process. And you also know that the flesh and the spirit are emnity to one another and we will always war in some area of our lives until we recieve our glorified bodies.

Try and apply the scripture to your life. Its not enough just to meditate on the word but put action behind it. You might see a difference there.

This scripture has helped me in the past and i would lke to share it with you.

Phillipians 4:8

Finally, brethren (Cerebrus), whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy-meditate on these things.

Shalom to you!

[Bolts]

Hi Cerebrus and welcome to worthyboards

As you probably know, psychology is a science that uses a methodical process to prove or disprove a hypothesis.

The word of God, on the other hand, is a life giving source. One that many testify to having a significant affect on their lives.

Science gives us an appreciation of creation, functionalism, structuralism etc, but the one thing it cannot give us is eternal life.

Therein lies the balance.

[patricia1]

hello there sweetheart..

I hear exactly what you are sayiny. there is a awful lot in your post.

Number one~~~~My daughter who is seven right, is lacking confidence. This happened to her when she started first grade as well.

Let us go there for a moment.

• often a realization of the need to learn, although already told how smart we are by family, becomes a reality in the fragility of your confidence of what you already know becomes shaken. How a parent or the school handles this, depends on how you see you.
  
  
  
  • Certain children like my daughter wants to work at her own pace and has a tendency to try and be perfect to please her father. In her quest to do this she will always fail for there is no such thing as perfection. She sees her perfection as her self esteem and also a guideline that her father , who is not saved may love her more.
    
    
    
    • it is true that woman have emasculated men in society so to speak.
      
    • There is a balance that society has messed up but that does not mean one cannot adhere to biblical principls if a christian. You fail to mention what kind of school you went to.
      
    • If you are in a christian church or community, you should be looking for a virtuous woman. not a popularity contest
      
    • By the way I have always like the shy type.
      
      
      
      • I do believe we are not our thoughts in general if there is a problem in the thought process. Example..I am walking down the street.people are looking at me so therefor there is something wrong with the way I look. In affect I may appear pretty that day. But being in a bad. dark oppressed mood effects the way I see thing. My pecetions can be wrong because my glasses are not rosey that day. Phil. 4:8 is the best psychological advice given. In amatter of fact most come from a biblical root.( psychology that is)
        
      • the twelve steps of A.A. came from two christians. Yes Bill was a christian.
        
      • cognitive therapy adopts the same. God say " I AM!" It is in present tense. If we look too much in the past we will miss the present. Same if we look too much in the future. This is seen with Lots wife.
        
      • It is not the resistence of the present moment but unfulfillment of wants , dreams and desires that is the resistence we come up against, Jseus was frustrated with those selling in the temple. We also resist Jesus more often than we resist the devil. That can be devastating in itself.
        
      • Self esteem is knowing who we are and not being defined by who others think we ar. We are humble servants a a beautiful creation. Love who Jesus made. Love others as yourself. If you cannot like and Love yourself that is a problem according to the word.
        

      ENTITLEMENT~~~~

      [*]As a christian. Jesus has come to give you a abundant life. Evry good and perfect thing comes from the father above.

      [*]All things work together for good to those who love the Lord and are called according to HIS purpose

      [*]You have not because you ask not.

      [*]Gods entitlement to you as a god fearing christian is to meet all your NEEDS. them your desires will be added

      [*]We have no entitlement really. Everything is given to us by God, belongs to God and should return to God in ministry.

      Strength~~~

      [*]without Jesus we are nothing....Our strength should come from Him above. Man will seek to kill the body...but God can kill both body and soul

      [*]trying to rely on your own strength will only weaken you. It is evident throughout the whole bible.

      [*]All a mans ways seem right in his own eyes but God weighs the heart. He ( God ) descernts the thoughts an intent of our hearts

      [*]That is all I will say for the moment. Just want to let you know is that there is a fine line and nothing knew under the sun in which Jesus has not written to us about.

      I am pentecostal, believe in all the word of God and the Minidtry of Jesus , The fullness of the Holy Spirit and His ministry as well. I am not legalistic pentecostal...( I wear make up. pants and earrings)

      I hope I have given you a few things to think about as well as the others here. Zen buddism as other cults have taken scriptural truths, twisted it and applied it to a new teaching. It is done all the time.

      By the way nice to meet you... patricia1

[Afal]

Patricia has given you such a full answer that there is nothing left for me to say except:

Hi and welcome!!!!!

[Guest]

Welcome!

[Bubba4J]

Welcome