Question regarding age of universe & light from distant stars

[Scarletprayers]

Some interesting and thoughtful posts on this subject, and some... well, not so. However, I think the real question here might be this; does the 'age' of the universe make a difference as to the reality of it's Creator and His plan to bring us into reconciliation with Himself?

I could go into debate about various scientific theory of the age of the universe, but to what end? Whether old or young (relatively speaking) the preponderance of verifiable scientific evidence points out clearly that, whatever it's age, the universe and it's natural workings are a product of intelligent design. Design then naturally points to a Designer.

It is my belief, based on the scientific evidence and further confirmed by verifiable eyewitness testimony, then added to by experiential evidence, that the Designer of the universe revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ. The person of Jesus then proved His claims to be the Designer incarnate by the act of His resurrection after a brutal death on a cross.

True science is really never at odds with "faith", because eventually and invaribly it always leads to the conclusion that our universe is a product of intelligent design, that there is a Designer, and that Designer loves His creation eternally. The creation events depicted in the Bible don't speak of the "how", I believe, because the "how" is not germaine to the "why". I've discovered the Bible is all about the "why" and the "Way", the "hows" are left for us to discover. And wouldn't we be truly bored if we had all those answers up-front?

In His Love,

Angelus

great post, and Welcome to Worthy!

[MorningGlory]

Since none of us were actually there at the time, I can say with confidence that we all know squat when it comes to prehistoric development and the birth of civilization.

That is simply not true. I suggest you try to learn something other than fundy drivel.

[Guest]

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." Revelation 14:6-7

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36

Young Earth is no more Biblically sound than old Earth

Oh My Dear One!

Knowing The Power Of God

It Is Biblically Sound For God To Have Created The Earth First And To Have Lite It Up On The First Day

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." Genesis 1:1-5

And It Is Biblically Sound For God To Have Made All Plant Life On The Third Day Of Creation And To Have Lite Them Up By That Very Same Light

"And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the third day." Genesis 1:11-13

And It Is Biblically Sound For God Then To Have Created All The Light Sources We Now See Even The Sun And The Moon And All The Stars On The Fourth Day

"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day." Genesis 1:14-19

So, Knowing The Power Of God And The Words Of The Bible, What Does Light Arriving From The Sun And The Stars Created Three Days After The Earth Have To Do With God's Rate Of Creation. (Or With Adam's Age Today. He's Alive Don't You Know.)

God Of Power

His Tenderness

"When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?" Psalms 8:3-4

His Everlasting Love

"The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee." Jeremiah 31:3

His Incomprehensible Offer

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18

What Kind Of Love Is This Our Creator Showed

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." Isaiah 53:5

In Those Hours He Hung Upon The Cross To Cleanse Our Sins

"And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.

Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,

And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.

And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.

And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.

And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.

And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." Luke 23:33-46

If We Would But Believe

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Joe

[Guest]

Things are not very old at all and there is much evidence to the contrary.

Let's talk. Please present one peice of evidence that the universe is young and we'll take it from there.

Got Bible

[mikeinsarasota]

Things are not very old at all and there is much evidence to the contrary.

Let's talk. Please present one peice of evidence that the universe is young and we'll take it from there.

Got Bible

I think he meant physical evidence.

[Gerioke]

Things are not very old at all and there is much evidence to the contrary.

Let's talk. Please present one peice of evidence that the universe is young and we'll take it from there.

Got Bible

I think he meant physical evidence.

Are you saying the bible is not a physical object?

[mikeinsarasota]

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to regurgitate that. Sure it's a physical object. A book is hardly physical evidence for a young earth.

Edited April 6, 2008 by mikeinsarasota

[Gerioke]

From where I stand, the universe didn't come into existence until august, 11, 1959. Anything before that is simply hearsay.

[Gerioke]

From where I stand, the universe didn't come into existence until august, 11, 1959. Anything before that is simply hearsay.

So it's possible to make assertions like this and impossible for me to disprove them. Big deal. What's your point? When we do any astronomical research we work from the assumption that the universe is several billion years old. Whether or not this is true is in this specific case irrelevant because due to the weird one way nature of time it's impossible to know for sure and it therefore makes sense to assume that the universe is old because if we do, our models work and we can make accurate predictions of future data.

(wow, that was convoluted, where's my eloquence gone? )

What kind of predictions?

[AnotherTraveler]

Some interesting and thoughtful posts on this subject, and some... well, not so. However, I think the real question here might be this; does the 'age' of the universe make a difference as to the reality of it's Creator and His plan to bring us into reconciliation with Himself?

I could go into debate about various scientific theory of the age of the universe, but to what end? Whether old or young (relatively speaking) the preponderance of verifiable scientific evidence points out clearly that, whatever it's age, the universe and it's natural workings are a product of intelligent design. Design then naturally points to a Designer.

It is my belief, based on the scientific evidence and further confirmed by verifiable eyewitness testimony, then added to by experiential evidence, that the Designer of the universe revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ. The person of Jesus then proved His claims to be the Designer incarnate by the act of His resurrection after a brutal death on a cross.

True science is really never at odds with "faith", because eventually and invaribly it always leads to the conclusion that our universe is a product of intelligent design, that there is a Designer, and that Designer loves His creation eternally. The creation events depicted in the Bible don't speak of the "how", I believe, because the "how" is not germaine to the "why". I've discovered the Bible is all about the "why" and the "Way", the "hows" are left for us to discover. And wouldn't we be truly bored if we had all those answers up-front?

In His Love,

Angelus

From where I stand, the universe didn't come into existence until august, 11, 1959. Anything before that is simply hearsay.

Some interesting and thoughtful posts on this subject, and some... well, not so. However....

First, thank you for mentioning my post, it took a lot of not thinking on my part, but those that know me best know that I can really not think when the need is there...

Gerioke, you are close to the actual date, but it was actually April 15th, 1956, but I must admit, I don't remember that day as clearly as I once did.

The time references relating to the days of creation are not qualified by God saying, "these days are 24 hours long and 0 minutes and 0 seconds.", He simply chose to say what He said, and no more than that. As a believer, I believe what He said, as a human being, I don't understand lots of things that I have chosen to believe without all the facts.

I love that we live in a scientific age, but I know that whatever God does is right, and there are simply some things that we don't have enough facts concerning to form any reasonable conclusions.

Wow, lots of words to say "I dunno".