polygamist sect hearing in texas decends into farce

[Guest Maranatha1]

This is not meant to discredit individual workers in the "state". This is questioning the state itself.

This has happened before.

It will happen again.

It is not about polygamy.

It is not even about abuse.

It is about control - total control.

This is only another escalation of the "intervention".

Not only Could this be used against us as Christians in the future, it already HAS been used against us.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6...28105&hl=en

or, go to video.google.com and search for 6517776133137328105

This is over 2 hours long. Go to 2:03 and see video of Child Protective Services confiscating 156 children putting them into buses from a Christian school.

Only a godless entity, seeking to destroy our society would continue to do this.

Where did they get the authority to decide what is best for our children?

Who ever gave any "State" authority to be parents of our children?

Where is that power given to those who refuse to acknowledge His Laws?

Show me the reference in the Bible where this is acceptable.

We are to "give unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's and to G-d the things that are G-d's."

How dare we give what is His to Ceasar!

When did we start believing that our children belong to Ceasar's and not to G-d?

Show me, in His Word, where He has given His little ones to be parented by a godless state.

If you go to the same video - and start at 1:59, you can see on tape how children are being conditioned, terrorized, and documents that they are even killed by the "state". It is not surprising. How could we think that any "state", especially one that does not recognize or honor Him, could come up with a system for raising His children that is better than the one He designed? But there is an abundance of evidence that the children are important to this "state", and they will get to them, whatever it takes; and it is NOT to love and protect them. These are the actions of the enemy.

Yes, there may be times when a family needs intervention. But it is because We, His church have abdicated our duty to love our neighbors. The solution is not hand this over to the godless (for surely that is what our "state" has become) but to be who He created us to be, to listen and obey Him, and He will give us His strategies to deal with these heartbreaking situations.

It is way past time to repent, to turn our face toward Him, to listen, obey, and be the salt in our society that He called us to be.

Edited May 14, 2008 by Maranatha1

[Treasure]

I love how this was brought back after all this time.....gotta love those peacemakers don't cha.

I R A peacemaker

[Axxman]

I got one...The 4th Amendment protects us from the federal gov't in situations like this...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled and upheld that ANY warrant issued has to have a specific and particular purpose. You cannot serve a warrant for "alleged" abuse and then investigate other "alleged" crimes under that warrant. Any investigation of "alleged" crimes that is outside of the warrant is not legal.

Sooooo....when CPS goes to investigate the alleged call of abuse, they had every right and obligation to investigate that allegation. They had NO RIGHT to begin interviewing people (girls) that they assumed were underage that were outside of the scope of the warrant. CPS interviewed girls that they believed were underage without ANY probable cause, outside of the search warrant. Even though these girls claimed to be over 18 (adults) CPS continued its investigation and secured ANOTHER warrant based on their opinion that the girls were underage and pregnant. The judge then issues an unconstitutional "bottomless" warrant that basically allowed for the search and seizure of all persons and places in the compound...inspite of the FACT that the 4th Amendment CLEARLY states that any warrant needs to specifically address and describe all things, places, and persons to be searched/seized.

Both of those "alleged" underage girls have since given birth and have had their babies removed after ONE day. Yesterday CPS acknowledged that they were wrong and that BOTH girls who have given birth are over the age of 18. Both warrants were served under false and unconstitutional pretenses. Some of you may be comfortable with the gov't serving warrants based on a "best guess"...or worse yet, "non-specific" cases...but I guarantee you that this is a long way from constitutional.

Imagine that the gov't had gone into that compound to investigate the abuse call...and then saw a couple of people with guns (instead of pregnant girls.) They then begin questioning the men with guns about the abuse and ask the men if the guns are registered. The men produce whatever evidence they can that the guns are legal (ok, pause...they have already stepped outside of the warrant at this point.) The officers on scene "assume" that this is a violent sect and assume that the guns are illegal. They then go get a judge to issue a non-specific warrant to search all places and people for other "allegedly" illegal guns and weapons....all under the guise of protecting the children of course. A month or so later we find out that the initial two guys with guns actually were legal and allowed to have the guns but the gov't refuses to admit its initial mistake and in fact continues to try and gather evidence under the initial warrant. Now we start getting into the 14 amendment and due process and immunities because the initial warrant was granted without proper justification and cause.

If this was a 2nd amendment issue....most of you would be agreeing with JustinM and the rest of us who value the constitution.

[Rick-Parker]

Still doesn't answer my question. Can you or anyone else provide positive proof, not just rhetoric, that anyone's constitutional rights have been violated? Not just which rights or a description of the rights in question but an evidential description which would convince a person, ignorant of the circumstances we are discussing, that rights have been violated. An evidential description is like - the police entered the house without a warrant, arrested the suspect and did not read them their Miranda rights. Then you provide legal proof. Everyone knows what legal proof is, right.

edit

[faith pleases God]

Still doesn't answer my question. Can you or anyone else provide positive proof, not just rhetoric, that anyone's constitutional rights have been violated? Not just which rights or a description of the rights in question but an evidential description which would convince a person, ignorant of the circumstances we are discussing, that rights have been violated. An evidential description is like - the police entered the house without a warrant, arrested the suspect and did not read them their Miranda rights. Then you provide legal proof. Everyone knows what legal proof is, right.

edit

You've gotten many answers already. Obviously none you like or agree with. But so what? This thread isn't about your question. Besides use your head. A child is the parents' and God's, not the states. This was an abuse on many rights (not gonna list every time quit asking and reread). Sorry you can't see that.

[Scarletprayers]

You've gotten many answers already. Obviously none you like or agree with. But so what? This thread isn't about your question. Besides use your head. A child is the parents' and God's, not the states. This was an abuse on many rights (not gonna list every time quit asking and reread). Sorry you can't see that.

You should have edited some more..........................."besides use your head" maybe you should try that. This wasn't about abuse on many rights???? what does that mean, (not gonna list every time quit asking and reread) could you be alittle more rude???? Sorry you can't see that, see WHAT that your post doesn't make any sense to begin with.

[Yahsway]

Well, if its True that the FDLS "Bleeds the Beast" as they put it, then all I can say is if you tweak the beasts nose long enough they are gonna come looking for you.

If they are a separatist group, then they should not depend on the government aka "The Beast" to take care of them.

[Rick-Parker]

Still doesn't answer my question. Can you or anyone else provide positive proof, not just rhetoric, that anyone's constitutional rights have been violated? Not just which rights or a description of the rights in question but an evidential description which would convince a person, ignorant of the circumstances we are discussing, that rights have been violated. An evidential description is like - the police entered the house without a warrant, arrested the suspect and did not read them their Miranda rights. Then you provide legal proof. Everyone knows what legal proof is, right.

edit

You've gotten many answers already. Obviously none you like or agree with. But so what? This thread isn't about your question. Besides use your head. A child is the parents' and God's, not the states. This was an abuse on many rights (not gonna list every time quit asking and reread). Sorry you can't see that.

This thread is rife with complaints that the rights of the adults have been violated by the State of Texas. However, no one has been able or forthcoming with the proof of these violations. That is why I am asking for the legal proof that anyone's rights were trashed. (Aside for the rights of the children to be secure in their persons; ie forced to have sex with the old men and bear their children beginning at age 13.) I'm not the one who needs to use their head; you need to ask yourself why there are not 450 lawsuits against the State for violation of anyone's civil or constitutional rights.

That is why my question needs to be answered by the libertarians on this site. That said....

I don't like the fact that the State went into the compound and took the children away from their parents. I know it is a slippery slope. But, I also believe that the "rights" of the children are just as important as those of the adults. The State has taken the position, and I agree, that the children are not able to stand up for their rights and they needed protection.

I'm just as concerned about the loss of any rights. We are definately under threat. And we all know (or should) that there is nothing we can do to stop the progression of Satan's plan. This is not the battle we want to fight. If we put as much effort into protecting the rights of the unborn as we do to lament the violation of the rights of cults, pediphiles, criminals and terrorists, we would not be in the position we are in today.

[JustinM]

quote BP: "If we put as much effort into protecting the rights of the unborn as we do to lament the violation of the rights of cults, pediphiles, criminals and terrorists, we would not be in the position we are in today."

First off, the cultists, pedophiles, criminals and terrorists, are Americans first, and are protected by the US Constitution whether you like it or not.

Secondly, I will continue to use the slippery slope argument until it becomes irrelevant. When a government wants to control it's population, it starts taking very small steps to do that, one of their steps is to oppress the undesirables of society, cultists (fanatics), pedophiles, criminals, terrorists. Once due process is gone, then everyone can fall into those categories, if someone (anyone) suspects them. So, then the burden of innocence falls on the subjects of the state, (who in my opinion, are no longer regarded as Citizens).

Plenty of evidence that the court overstepped its Constitutional authority has been submitted, some of you are failing to see beyond your ideology.

Now, what was the justification for the issuance of the warrant? . . .and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation. . . Why wasn't the accuser required to be under oath, or provide a written statement?

Where was the warrant allowed to search, who was supposed to be searched, what things were specifically identified to be searched? . . .and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

What rights were violated? . . .The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated. . .

What makes the search unreasonable? no probable cause. You had the testimony of one unindicted, unverified, unidentified false witness.

What do you think "Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness" means? Just what this "witness" did. When "justice" is administered under the false testimony of a witness, typically the Judge throws out the case. So no one wins, the victim most certainly loses, but what about the innocent person that was falsely accused? What about the guilty person that was set free because of the false testimony of someone else? No justice for the victim. In order for justice to be just, all the rules have to be followed when it is administered, by all parties. Witnesses must be honest, the State must exercise only what authority it was granted in the Constitution, etc.

There was no justice in this case. The whole deal became a travesty of justice, the only winner here was the state, because it just gained more power over our lives.

[Rick-Parker]

Your the one who can't see through your ideology. You are willing to overlook the children's rights for the rights of the adults. That is BS and you know it. Protect the rights of the pedophile over the victim is not Christian and you know that. I've said all I'm going to say because I am out of words and I've made my argument. Let the people decide.