AllforJesustheLord Posted May 7, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 557 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/21/1976 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Matthew 19:21, Mark 10:19-22, Luke 12:31-34;18:20-24 MeSHiaCH(Christ) said to sell everything, and give to the poor, and come follow Him, He explained in another scripture about the more weighter matters of the law, remember mercy, and two other characteristics. So here Jesus Christ went over the law of tithe, he established a better way. The way of Love. 2 Peter 1:3-4; 3 John 2; 1 Tim. 6:17-19 Proof of keeping things now, and showing love, being willing to give. 1 Cor. 16:2 Give weekly, in keeping with income. 2 Cor. 8:8;9:7 Without compulsion, Paul suggests love, not a fixed percentage, as the motive for our giving. 2 Cor. 9:6,11 Know you will get good things, you will be able to get the divine nature to escape the corruption in the world. One scripture talks about some people believe gain is godliness, but that is wrong, people are godly if they follow Christ, and that is if they have things, or not, the money is not the defining factor of godliness. If that were so the original apostles would not have been godly, but we know they were godly without having alot. Eph. 5:3-6 Harlotry but and all impurity, or greediness not let it be named among you, as if fitting for saints, and fithiness, and foolish talking, or joking, not things becoming, but rather thanksgiving. For this knowing be that every fornicator, or impure one, or greedy, who is an idolater, has not inheritance in the kingdom (of) Christ, and (of) God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for through these comes the wrath (of) God on the sons of disobedience." The Word for idolater is also in these scriptures. Rev. 21:7-8 The overcoming will inherit all things, and I will be to him God, and he will be to Me the son, but to fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all the lying ones, the part of them in the lake the burning with fire, and brimstone, which is the second death. Rev. 22:14-15 Blessed those doing the commandments of Him, that will be the authority of them over the tree of life, and by the gates they may enter into the city, but outside the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and everyone loving, and making a lie." We can also see from scripture that leaders in the church of Christ, may get material things from people who they are leaders to, if they are true leaders, if they are not, they should not be teaching, for they will also teach wrong things, but 2 Cor. 11:7-12 shows the true leaders can get material things, from those they teach spiritual things to. Now also Paul himself said everyone should work, and He himself worked, so not to stop the good news of ELoHeeM(God). So that some would be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. So it is better to not take the position of power which one has if they preach, and teach the truth, it is better if they work, yet they do not have to, but it is better to work to get their own things, so those who have a problem with the getting of the leader, they would not be stopped by their problem, they could receive the grace of God through YeHuSHua MeSHiaCH(Jesus Christ) our YaH(Lord), and ELoHaY(God). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsower Posted May 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Amen Again!!! ALLfor Jesus, you have received the Word! Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted May 9, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 9, 2004 I think Paul was a pretty exceptional man and a great example and would not let himself become a liability to anyone even when it would seem right and fair....he obviously determined to be his own man completely long ago ...and lived by what he taught but did not impose his regime on others. Some leaders did not get involved with the minutia of leading the Church but devoted themselves to prayer and study. The doctrine of prosperity that is augmented under the banner of reaping and sowing would be better served by understanding that the principle is to lay up treasures for yourself in Heaven as you give out of love and a pure heart into the Kingdom of G-d...and not to line your own pocket or increase your bank-balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted May 10, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2004 ok, tithing....... if no one was to tithe..... let me rephrase that..... if every one was to keep their money, then who is going to support those that are givingtheir lives to spread the gosple???? even Jesus looked at giving.... and spoke on it..... the rich were giving ( maybe even tithing ( meaning 10 % )) and they were making a show of it.... then a widow woman gives only two mites.... the rich were giving ( even 10% of their income ) and bragging about it, they were giving out of their excess... in other words, they had more then they could use, more money then brains...... the widow woman gave all she had...... tell me who gave more???? some people the Lord has blessed with great income, ( not even calling it wealth ), and others God has blessed with the wisdom and knowledge and ability to go and spread the Good News of the Gosple of Jesus but has not blessed them with the means of getting to where they need to work, and they will also need other support beyond just transportation...... Jesus also told us, that we are to give to ceaser what is his and to God what is Gods..... the money that comes into this house hold is not mine, it belongs to God to do with as He pleases.... the income that this company makes is Gods being that the company belongs to God...... now... tell me this, if the Company is Gods, and this House is Gods, and the Van, Truck and Car are Gods, then who does the money belong to???? you enjoy sitting in a nice, spacious, luxurious building that is air conditioned in the summer, and heated in the winter, and in the spring and fall have the ceiling fans going the entire time and those expensive lights, with that great sound system and the pipe organ and and and and and ...... who does all this belong to???? you can not say it belongs to you, cause if you are not giving, you have not helped support your very own congregation...... there is a pastor that is local here that has been televised for a very very very long time..... He visits those that are members of the church he preaches at, but if you are not a member, he dont know you are there.... why???? cause the only way they have of knowing you are there is by your tithe envolope.... why??? cause this peticular congregation is over 1000 at a service. oh, i guess you could fill out a visitors card every time you went, but then i think you would probably be contacted and asked not to fill anymore of them out, cause that cost money... oh, you like sitting on padded seats? and reading from song books? or using the bibles the church provides? if you dont tithe ( or even give ) how in the world do you feel that the Word of God can be moved thru out???? even the deciples, when they were going from town to town, relyed on others for their support.... they were not to go from house to house, and if they was rejected they was to move on...... are you saying that you do not have to support the church? if not you, then who? mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted May 10, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 10, 2004 I think the difficulty arises when the Church preaches a misconception and tries to establish the Jewish Temple taxation as a bona fide example of what should be done these days...rather than establishing the 'binding New Covenant Law ' about the necessity of giving and supporting your Church in all their endeavours because of the need...and this means the upkeep of the building and full-time ministries...and the teaching of free-will offerings for all the projects at home and abroard that the Church will be involved in...it will be so releasing. To me this is much more real than at every meeting (this happens in our Church) getting someone to give a 10 minute message on Tithing and searching through all the Old Testament teachings...that often bear no relation to what should be going on...this coupled with the Sowing and Reaping doctrine that strongly teaches that you should look for financial return on your Tithe...and the more you put in ...the more you will get back. I mean I believe in the priciple but not the application which is pretty shoddy in reality and I believe robs us of real blessing. You might say what about the testimonies of those that G-d has blessed 100 fold 500 fold when they gave...or were given a new car? Well G-d bless them and encourage them...but I could produce many more who have given faithfully for decades and never had financial prosperity but they will still get their investment realised. What wouldn't Pastors give to have a congregation of people with the heart of the Widow which is what we all should have. Interesting to surmise that the Widow who was a good giver and probably gave with this attitude throughout her life...was still financially challenged. If Pastors could scrap 'tithing' as commonly taught and continuously bolstered I believe that far from a drop in giving...there would be a greater freedom as people could see a little clearer and give with a lot more faith than they had before...giving out of a pure heart knowing that their Heavenly Father who sees them giving in secret will reward them...but with real treasure that does not perish...then they would be real cheerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Hey Mike, I think AllforJesus is saying that giving under compulsion is not truly giving. We are to give hilariously out of a willing heart whatever we can give. If you want to use the tithe as a standard that's great...but when some preacher gives a 20 minute sermon designed to manipulate money out of you that is wrong on his part. "IF" that is what was said....I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllforJesustheLord Posted May 11, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 557 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/07/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/21/1976 Author Share Posted May 11, 2004 I will try to give what I am saying there is to much I think for me to be able to remember everything. One thing I am saying is when we limit God with our giving, we do just that, first and foremost our giving is everything about ourselves, and giving things is included, in the blessing. We have an opportunity to give to those who are righteous first, then to others. We can should give, and support the true leaders, and teachers of Jesus Christ our Lord, and God, but we should also see this tests our love, how much are we going to choose to give in our hearts. For those who are truly God's people first, and then how much for other people, who are not truly believers, or even non believers. I am learning more, and more, the evilness of the present world, where it is not so easy to participate in Mystery Babylon, and still do God's perfect will. Meaning in working, and still completely serving God. We all have a calling from God to help the less blessed, or less favored in whatever area that means, spiritually, and/or financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 amen, amen, amen.... :hug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DInsights Posted May 12, 2004 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 38 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2004 (edited) Grace and peace from God and from our Lord Jesus Christ unto all: Every commandment and ordinance of the Torah was a shadow of its substantive replacement in the new and prevailing law of the Spirit by Christ Jesus. In teaching us, Jesus Christ gave few examples of shadow commandments in the Torah and their corresponding substantives according to the Law of the Spirit. Today, Jesus Christ has abolished all shadow commandments and ordinances of the Torah in His flesh because sin could spin from them. In replacement, substantive and corresponding laws that bring about life according to the Spirit are given to the beloved who have believed and received Him. The rule equally applies to the shadow ordinance relating to Tithing: The shadow has been abolished but Christ Jesus has given the substantive and spiritual form of tithing that brings life to the church. IN THE SHADOW LAW A tenth of crops and livestock were given to the Levites of the Aaronic priesthood. These were called first fruits of livestock and crops with which the Levites were to live by, themselves having been chosen by God to stand before Him instead of first-born sons of the Jews. Tithing did not start during the Aaronic priesthood. By faith, Abraham tithed to Melchizedek. As long as faith abides forever, it remains that this principle of faith that patriarch Abraham zealously kept remains as Abraham Edited May 12, 2004 by DInsights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted May 12, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 12, 2004 Food for thought....Welcome to Worthy Boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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