Guest yod Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 but to get total agreement you are going to need to recognize Church authority, and most non-Catholics will not do that. Is the catholic church the true church authority? And just so we don't sidetracked, you can PM me with the answer. the last time there was unity among all the believers was in Israel. This is the one thing we all have in common and this is the only place where true unity (in the Spirit) will be accomplished. Unfortunately, it was the church at Rome where the division and acrimony between gentiles and jews began to become ugly (Romans 11:20) and from there it went into 30,000 different christian denominations based on error of the ECF (early church fathers) and the RCC. And even within Israel, sects arose pretty quickly. Sectarianism and division began long before the church fathers. Even as early as Moses people were breaking off wanting to go back to Egypt. In Jesus' time there were sects and divisions. good point there. 2 jews, 3 opinions. The first disagreement I find in the Body was between hellenistic jews and hebraic jews in Acts (6 I think?). The greek influence on Israel after Alexander the Great was the reason that Pharisees came about. The problem of division within the early community was probably more a result of this "greek spirit" than anything else. I think this same greek spirit is still the problem of division today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IreneM Posted June 5, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 700 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2008 how can we have unity when we are judged by what we do or what we look like case in point I went to a baptist chuch once and some elder or greeter told me I was going to hell for haveing short hair I can't wear my hir long it gives me violent head aches he was out fo line God loks at the heart not the hair but this guy was not talking to me in christian love he was judging me I went to a pentacostal church with a friend of mine and was told right out that if I did not speak in tongues I was not saved. 2 cases of judgeing and yet we are to be one with those who judge us on how we look or wether or not we speak in tongues?? How can we walk a mile with some one we do not agree with and be expected to be in unity for peace and harmony I have a personal dislike for a certain TV preacher who is not even a real preacher but let me name names and boy do I get it from left and right how dare I judge how dare I hold this man accountable (I DARE BECUASE WE ARE TO DARE WE ARE TO HOLD THIS MAN TO THE SCRIPTURE) unity is not possible no matter what sweet words you put to it In Christ Irene M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psalmone Posted June 5, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 261 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/22/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/15/1970 Share Posted June 5, 2008 but to get total agreement you are going to need to recognize Church authority, and most non-Catholics will not do that. Is the catholic church the true church authority? And just so we don't sidetracked, you can PM me with the answer. the last time there was unity among all the believers was in Israel. This is the one thing we all have in common and this is the only place where true unity (in the Spirit) will be accomplished. Unfortunately, it was the church at Rome where the division and acrimony between gentiles and jews began to become ugly (Romans 11:20) and from there it went into 30,000 different christian denominations based on error of the ECF (early church fathers) and the RCC. And even within Israel, sects arose pretty quickly. Sectarianism and division began long before the church fathers. Even as early as Moses people were breaking off wanting to go back to Egypt. In Jesus' time there were sects and divisions. good point there. 2 jews, 3 opinions. The first disagreement I find in the Body was between hellenistic jews and hebraic jews in Acts (6 I think?). The greek influence on Israel after Alexander the Great was the reason that Pharisees came about. The problem of division within the early community was probably more a result of this "greek spirit" than anything else. I think this same greek spirit is still the problem of division today. Israel may be the unifying factor for the church denominations as the spirit we are of is to do with is that of the glory of Israel. Israel's fulfillment would be to our benefit possibly justifying all that is sound in the different denominations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted June 5, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2008 but to get total agreement you are going to need to recognize Church authority, and most non-Catholics will not do that. Is the catholic church the true church authority? And just so we don't sidetracked, you can PM me with the answer. the last time there was unity among all the believers was in Israel. This is the one thing we all have in common and this is the only place where true unity (in the Spirit) will be accomplished. Unfortunately, it was the church at Rome where the division and acrimony between gentiles and jews began to become ugly (Romans 11:20) and from there it went into 30,000 different christian denominations based on error of the ECF (early church fathers) and the RCC. And even within Israel, sects arose pretty quickly. Sectarianism and division began long before the church fathers. Even as early as Moses people were breaking off wanting to go back to Egypt. In Jesus' time there were sects and divisions. good point there. 2 jews, 3 opinions. The first disagreement I find in the Body was between hellenistic jews and hebraic jews in Acts (6 I think?). The greek influence on Israel after Alexander the Great was the reason that Pharisees came about. The problem of division within the early community was probably more a result of this "greek spirit" than anything else. I think this same greek spirit is still the problem of division today. Sinful humans. That is one thing both Jews and Gentiles have in common Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted June 5, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I know what you are saying. What would be the answer though? The fact is we have been divided quite severely for 500 years over some of the issues you speak about. The only way to achieve total unity is to entrust doctrine to one set of leaders and then follow their interpretation of scripture as if it were from God Himself. The fact is the bible is not always clear to our eyes, and thus we disagree even when we both agree that the bible is the pure Word of God. We can make cases yes, and sound ones but to get total agreement you are going to need to recognize Church authority, and most non-Catholics will not do that. What we end up with is what we always seem to end up with, I am right you are wrong and you are deceived and I am not, and round and round we go and this is among bible believing Christians, not to even mention the huge disagreements we will have with Christians who do not accept the infallibility of Holy Scripture. To me it is still more important to start with the essentials of what we agree on and why. The Worthy Statement of faith for example largely mirrors my own congregation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iryssa Posted June 5, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 117 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,860 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1984 Share Posted June 5, 2008 how can we have unity when we are judged by what we do or what we look like case in point I went to a baptist chuch once and some elder or greeter told me I was going to hell for haveing short hair I can't wear my hir long it gives me violent head aches he was out fo line God loks at the heart not the hair but this guy was not talking to me in christian love he was judging me I went to a pentacostal church with a friend of mine and was told right out that if I did not speak in tongues I was not saved. 2 cases of judgeing and yet we are to be one with those who judge us on how we look or wether or not we speak in tongues?? How can we walk a mile with some one we do not agree with and be expected to be in unity for peace and harmony I have a personal dislike for a certain TV preacher who is not even a real preacher but let me name names and boy do I get it from left and right how dare I judge how dare I hold this man accountable (I DARE BECUASE WE ARE TO DARE WE ARE TO HOLD THIS MAN TO THE SCRIPTURE) unity is not possible no matter what sweet words you put to it In Christ Irene M Another case where unity is being confused with uniformity. When someone finds they are being judged for how they look (or something else) by another Christian, SOMEONE has to be the bigger man (or woman) and say "I understand you don't approve, and I disagree with your reasoning, but I love you despite our differences, because Christ loves you." I know that's easier said than done...but I think we should try, anyway. You can disagree with someone and still love them. I disagree with my parents, my brother, and even my husband a lot, but I still love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 but to get total agreement you are going to need to recognize Church authority, and most non-Catholics will not do that. Is the catholic church the true church authority? And just so we don't sidetracked, you can PM me with the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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