Did Jesus descend into hell?

[BlindSeeker]

I'm sorry, but do not the older forms of the Apostles' Creed include the phrase "He descended into hell...."? I believe it is only in the newer forms that it is softened to "He descended to the dead........"

No, I've included the earliest I could find. You are welcome to post others you know of.

[Smalcald]

The Creeds are based on scripture do we have scripture which would indicate that Christ invaded hell?

Just off the top of my head I would say this verse from Peter, would give some indication that Christ has preached to those in hell:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[f] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21

[BlindSeeker]

The Creeds are based on scripture do we have scripture which would indicate that Christ invaded hell?

Just off the top of my head I would say this verse from Peter, would give some indication that Christ has preached to those in hell:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[f] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21

Hello Smalcald,

I addressed that verse already in post 10. It is not saying what you think.

After you review post 10. we can discuss it further.

Peace.

[Leonard]

I'm sorry, but do not the older forms of the Apostles' Creed include the phrase "He descended into hell...."? I believe it is only in the newer forms that it is softened to "He descended to the dead........"

No, I've included the earliest I could find. You are welcome to post others you know of.

The Center for Reformed Theology posts this version of the Creed, stating it dates to within a HALF CENTURY of the writing of the New Testament:

The basic creed of Reformed churches, as most familiarly known, is called the Apostles' Creed. It has received this title because of its great antiquity; it dates from very early times in the Church, a half century or so from the last writings of the New Testament.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,

the Creator of heaven and earth,

and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,

born of the Virgin Mary,

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell.

(I have reproduced only the section we're discussing.)

[Massorite]

The following is some early creeds that do not mention Jesus going to hell . . . not until around 400 A.D.

Question is, why did the early church not include this in their statement of faith it Jesus did in fact descend into hell itself. Remember, our English translations are dated mush later than 400 A.D.

THE APOSTLES' CREED

THIRD CENTURY (?)

"The Symbolum Apostolorum was developed between the 2nd and 9th centuries. It is the most popular creed used in worship by Western Christians. Its central doctrines are those of the Trinity and God the Creator. "Legend has it that the Apostles wrote this creed on the tenth day after Christ's ascension into heaven . . . each of the doctrines found in the creed can be traced to statements current in the apostolic period. The earliest written version of the creed is perhaps the Interrogatory Creed of Hippolytus below (c.215 A.D.).

INTERROGATORY CREED OF HIPPOLYTUS

Do you believe in God the Father All Governing? Do you believe in Christ Jesus, The Son of God, Who was begotten by the Holy Spirit from the Virgin Mary, Who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and die (and was buried) and rose again the third day living from the dead, and ascended into the heavens, and sat down on the right hand of God, and will come again to judge the living and the dead? Do you believe in the Holy Ghost, in the holy Church, and in the resurrection of the body?

Notice there is no mention of a descent into hell.

RULE OF FAITH

SECOND CENTURY, AS RECORDED BY IRENAEUS:

". . .this faith: in one God, the Father Almighty, who made the heaven and the earth and the seas and all the things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was made flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who made known through the prophets the plan of salvation, and the coming, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and his future appearing from heaven in the glory of the Father to sum up all things and to raise anew all flesh of the whole human race. . ."

Again no mention of a descent into hell.

CREED OF MARCELLUS (340 A.D.)

I believe in God, All Governing; And in Christ Jesus His only begotten Son, our Lord, Who was begotten of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Marf, Who was crucified under Pontius Pilate and buried, Who rose from the dead on the third day, ascending to the heavens and taking His seat at the Father's right hand, whence He shall come to judge both the living and the dead; And (I) believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Church, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, life everlasting.

Again no mention of a descent into hell.

A BAPTISMAL CONFESSION

THIRD CENTURY, HIPPOLYTUS

"When the person being baptized goes down into the water, he who baptizes him, putting his hand on him, shall say:

[Leonard]

The following is some early creeds that do not mention Jesus going to hell . . . not until around 400 A.D.

Question is, why did the early church not include this in their statement of faith it Jesus did in fact descend into hell itself. Remember, our English translations are dated mush later than 400 A.D.

THE APOSTLES' CREED

THIRD CENTURY (?)

"The Symbolum Apostolorum was developed between the 2nd and 9th centuries. It is the most popular creed used in worship by Western Christians. Its central doctrines are those of the Trinity and God the Creator. "Legend has it that the Apostles wrote this creed on the tenth day after Christ's ascension into heaven . . . each of the doctrines found in the creed can be traced to statements current in the apostolic period. The earliest written version of the creed is perhaps the Interrogatory Creed of Hippolytus below (c.215 A.D.).

INTERROGATORY CREED OF HIPPOLYTUS

Do you believe in God the Father All Governing? Do you believe in Christ Jesus, The Son of God, Who was begotten by the Holy Spirit from the Virgin Mary, Who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and die (and was buried) and rose again the third day living from the dead, and ascended into the heavens, and sat down on the right hand of God, and will come again to judge the living and the dead? Do you believe in the Holy Ghost, in the holy Church, and in the resurrection of the body?

Notice there is no mention of a descent into hell.

RULE OF FAITH

SECOND CENTURY, AS RECORDED BY IRENAEUS:

". . .this faith: in one God, the Father Almighty, who made the heaven and the earth and the seas and all the things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who was made flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who made known through the prophets the plan of salvation, and the coming, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the bodily ascension into heaven of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and his future appearing from heaven in the glory of the Father to sum up all things and to raise anew all flesh of the whole human race. . ."

Again no mention of a descent into hell.

CREED OF MARCELLUS (340 A.D.)

I believe in God, All Governing; And in Christ Jesus His only begotten Son, our Lord, Who was begotten of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Marf, Who was crucified under Pontius Pilate and buried, Who rose from the dead on the third day, ascending to the heavens and taking His seat at the Father's right hand, whence He shall come to judge both the living and the dead; And (I) believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Church, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, life everlasting.

Again no mention of a descent into hell.

A BAPTISMAL CONFESSION

THIRD CENTURY, HIPPOLYTUS

"When the person being baptized goes down into the water, he who baptizes him, putting his hand on him, shall say:

[Smalcald]

The Creeds are based on scripture do we have scripture which would indicate that Christ invaded hell?

Just off the top of my head I would say this verse from Peter, would give some indication that Christ has preached to those in hell:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[e] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[f] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21

Hello Smalcald,

I addressed that verse already in post 10. It is not saying what you think.

After you review post 10. we can discuss it further.

Peace.

Hi bindseeker,

Okay I went back and read that post.

For me a simpler and more direct reading is that Christ preached in hell. I don't see scriptural evidence of multiple spiritual realms with little prisons here and there for some disobedient Spirits (demons); there are simply heaven, earth and hell.

But I can also see what you mean it is just one verse. But to me it makes theological sense that Christ indeed preached His gospel to those in hell, every knee must bow. The other take of course is that if Christ is going to fully take on our sin, He must suffer hell in our place also.

[BlindSeeker]

The Center for Reformed Theology posts this version of the Creed, stating it dates to within a HALF CENTURY of the writing of the New Testament:

The basic creed of Reformed churches, as most familiarly known, is called the Apostles' Creed. It has received this title because of its great antiquity; it dates from very early times in the Church, a half century or so from the last writings of the New Testament.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,

the Creator of heaven and earth,

and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,

born of the Virgin Mary,

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell.

(I have reproduced only the section we're discussing.)

Leonard,

Thanks for the post, however the Apostles

[BlindSeeker]

Hi bindseeker,

Okay I went back and read that post.

For me a simpler and more direct reading is that Christ preached in hell. I don't see scriptural evidence of multiple spiritual realms with little prisons here and there for some disobedient Spirits (demons); there are simply heaven, earth and hell.

But I can also see what you mean it is just one verse. But to me it makes theological sense that Christ indeed preached His gospel to those in hell, every knee must bow. The other take of course is that if Christ is going to fully take on our sin, He must suffer hell in our place also.

Then the shedding of Christ's blood wasn't sufficient. There are a whole lot of verses then that are inaccurate regarding the propitiation for the sins of the world . . .

[BlindSeeker]

Of course NONE of these dates to ca. AD 140, like the Apostles Creed as cited in my recent post. It appears the Apostle's creed was in use for nearly 2 centuries by the time the Nicene Creed was also adopted. Are you thinking that perhaps the Nicene Council had wisdom in simply saying "....He was crucified, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in accordance with the Scriptures...."?

The Creed of St. Athanasius also specifically mentions His descent into hell.

The three Creeds UNIVERSALLY RECEIVED in Ecumenical Council are: 1. The Apostles Creed, 2, The Nicene Creed, and 3. The Athanasian Creed. The other Creeds you list were respected and used in various places, but the Church only accepted these three I have listed as eternally valid. I have demonstrated that the earliest known form of the Apostles Creed, and the Athanasian Creed BOTH speak of His descent into hell.

I think if you wish to disprove the early Christians believed this doctrine, you have a very rough row to hoe!

Again, the dating, authorship and original contents of the Apostles Creed as posted and know today cannot be substantiated . . . while the creeds posted in the OP can.

Regarding the Creed of St. Athanasius, it too most likely originated in Gaul around 500 A.D.

The authorship of the creed as well is skeptical for a variety of reasons

Edited June 16, 2008 by BlindSeeker