Floatingaxe Posted August 17, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Satan has attacked the church in 5 areas: The workforce (he halved it), men and their ministry (affected by Pride), women (abuse, denigration, denial and robbed of identity), God's character (bias against women shows the world that God is unjust), God's image (Satan uses the rejection issue and emotional woundings to destroy the revelation of the image of God through the unity of man and woman in all areas). Satan hates us, folks! He loves this discord and this misunderstanding of God's intent for all of us to be equally serving Him, shoulder to shoulder as He created us in the first place! In Christ, we can show the world exactly how it is supposed to be...not buying into the culture that has hated women for centuries. The Greeks hated women, and the Romans also. That is how our culture is influenced. Grace to you, I fail to see where the Church has bought into the culture of hating women. Pleases explain. Peace, Dave Hi, Dave, I don't want to get all wordy about it, but suffice it to say, the Church, men taking the helm, has misinterpreted the scriptures concerning our roles. It is the bias of the great Greek and Roman empires that has pervaded each generation, fading only slightly as the Church marches onward. The hatred of Satan toward woman has been made a subtle, palatable thing--- but denial of service is not so subtle to a woman who is gifted and called by God. He holds everyone, male or female accountable for saying, "No" to God, or standing between a called woman and her LORD. Essentially you are saying that these cultures permeated the Word of God. If that is so, then it is not the Word of God. If the Bible contains even a single element of humanity (That is, fallen humanity) than it can not be the Word of God. Neither the Bible nor the church has ever withheld "service" from a woman. Women have always been free to have service roles in the church. Women are permitted to minister the Word to others, and to preach the gospel. But as to a woman participating in the specific roles which involve the defining of doctrine and governing the direction of the local churches the Bible is very clear: They are not permitted. You really attempt to blur the lines of distinction between these responsibilities when you claim that woman can, "Minister as a minister ministers." That simply is not true. It never has been true. To "minister" is literally "to be a [public] servant." In some cases it refers to a role - "ministerial role" in the church and in others it means "to minister to, to feed, to nourish" as the Lord was "ministered" to by the angels in the wilderness. All saints, regardless of gender or age, should be ministers of Christ Jesus. Yet not all are given to be ministers in the sense of having the responsibility of governing a local church. No...Jesus set things in motion so that the Church would change culture. However the Church has been rather slow and disobedient, and the deep-seated hatred of women has continued from one generation to the next until even now, it is still there and has become rather palatable in certain sectors--mainly the churches. It is not the will of God. Thank God that Spirit-led churches are moving ahead in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted August 17, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Satan has attacked the church in 5 areas: The workforce (he halved it), men and their ministry (affected by Pride), women (abuse, denigration, denial and robbed of identity), God's character (bias against women shows the world that God is unjust), God's image (Satan uses the rejection issue and emotional woundings to destroy the revelation of the image of God through the unity of man and woman in all areas). Satan hates us, folks! He loves this discord and this misunderstanding of God's intent for all of us to be equally serving Him, shoulder to shoulder as He created us in the first place! In Christ, we can show the world exactly how it is supposed to be...not buying into the culture that has hated women for centuries. The Greeks hated women, and the Romans also. That is how our culture is influenced. Grace to you, I fail to see where the Church has bought into the culture of hating women. Pleases explain. Peace, Dave Hi, Dave, I don't want to get all wordy about it, but suffice it to say, the Church, men taking the helm, has misinterpreted the scriptures concerning our roles. It is the bias of the great Greek and Roman empires that has pervaded each generation, fading only slightly as the Church marches onward. The hatred of Satan toward woman has been made a subtle, palatable thing--- but denial of service is not so subtle to a woman who is gifted and called by God. He holds everyone, male or female accountable for saying, "No" to God, or standing between a called woman and her LORD. Essentially you are saying that these cultures permeated the Word of God. If that is so, then it is not the Word of God. If the Bible contains even a single element of humanity (That is, fallen humanity) than it can not be the Word of God. Neither the Bible nor the church has ever withheld "service" from a woman. Women have always been free to have service roles in the church. Women are permitted to minister the Word to others, and to preach the gospel. But as to a woman participating in the specific roles which involve the defining of doctrine and governing the direction of the local churches the Bible is very clear: They are not permitted. You really attempt to blur the lines of distinction between these responsibilities when you claim that woman can, "Minister as a minister ministers." That simply is not true. It never has been true. To "minister" is literally "to be a [public] servant." In some cases it refers to a role - "ministerial role" in the church and in others it means "to minister to, to feed, to nourish" as the Lord was "ministered" to by the angels in the wilderness. All saints, regardless of gender or age, should be ministers of Christ Jesus. Yet not all are given to be ministers in the sense of having the responsibility of governing a local church. No...Jesus set things in motion so that the Church would change culture. However the Church has been rather slow and disobedient, and the deep-seated hatred of women has continued from one generation to the next until even now, it is still there and has become rather palatable in certain sectors--mainly the churches. It is not the will of God. Thank God that Spirit-led churches are moving ahead in this area. Well I appreciate that you have an opinion, but you still have to prove that there was intentional twisting of Scriptural meaning due to male prejudice against women. The church has no part in culture, nor does it have the responsibility to change culture. That's a pretty shallow view of Christ's sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted August 17, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted August 17, 2008 1- the Church has been rather slow and disobedient, 2- the deep-seated hatred of women has continued from one generation to the next until even now, 1- Which church is this? 2- If my church doesn't have a female preacher, it's because we hate women? Ummm....ya, that must be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 No...Jesus set things in motion so that the Church would change culture. However the Church has been rather slow and disobedient, and the deep-seated hatred of women has continued from one generation to the next until even now, it is still there and has become rather palatable in certain sectors--mainly the churches. It is not the will of God. Thank God that Spirit-led churches are moving ahead in this area. Yet, women play amazing roles in the New Testament and if this so-called "hatred of women" were so rampant among church leaders, and they were so bent upon suppressing things as you assert, we would not expect such positive views of the various women mentioned in the New Testament. It appears you are making value judgments against others that if pressed for actual evidence, you would not really be able to produce it. Broad generalizations are never wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 18, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Well I appreciate that you have an opinion, but you still have to prove that there was intentional twisting of Scriptural meaning due to male prejudice against women. The church has no part in culture, nor does it have the responsibility to change culture. That's a pretty shallow view of Christ's sacrifice. It isn't shallow to INCLUDE the fact that Jesus didn't come to change the culture in His own lifetime--He had only so much time here. He set in motion equalizing patterns of thought that the Church was to carry on. Jesus elevated women as He ministered, stting the example. He knew that as the Church was obedient, that culture would be influenced. It has been, but very slowly, and I believe not as effectively as He willed it, vecasue the Church suffered a major setback early on. It is only recently since we have had a return to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit in the Church that we have seen these amazing changes take place and realized that women and men are equal in service to the King! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 18, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 18, 2008 No...Jesus set things in motion so that the Church would change culture. However the Church has been rather slow and disobedient, and the deep-seated hatred of women has continued from one generation to the next until even now, it is still there and has become rather palatable in certain sectors--mainly the churches. It is not the will of God. Thank God that Spirit-led churches are moving ahead in this area. Yet, women play amazing roles in the New Testament and if this so-called "hatred of women" were so rampant among church leaders, and they were so bent upon suppressing things as you assert, we would not expect such positive views of the various women mentioned in the New Testament. It appears you are making value judgments against others that if pressed for actual evidence, you would not really be able to produce it. Broad generalizations are never wise. It is the broad general opinion that has been so damaging for centuries. If you were a woman you'd be dancing to a different tune, so pardon me if I am not so accepting of your dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 18, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 18, 2008 1- the Church has been rather slow and disobedient, 2- the deep-seated hatred of women has continued from one generation to the next until even now, 1- Which church is this? 2- If my church doesn't have a female preacher, it's because we hate women? Ummm....ya, that must be it. 1- The Church of Jesus Christ in general has been guilty of this over the centuries. 2- I am not discussing individual local bodies of believers. It is a mindset that many people have that is based on a wrong interpretation of Paul. It isn't even an individual's fault. It is the agenda of Satan to infuse this pattern of thought into culture. He has been around a looooonnnnggg time and has engineered this--he hates woman, and he knows that to cause division between man and woman in their God-ordained joint service to the King, causing the Kingdom workforce to be halved, he can buy far more time to do his dirty work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 No...Jesus set things in motion so that the Church would change culture. However the Church has been rather slow and disobedient, and the deep-seated hatred of women has continued from one generation to the next until even now, it is still there and has become rather palatable in certain sectors--mainly the churches. It is not the will of God. Thank God that Spirit-led churches are moving ahead in this area. Yet, women play amazing roles in the New Testament and if this so-called "hatred of women" were so rampant among church leaders, and they were so bent upon suppressing things as you assert, we would not expect such positive views of the various women mentioned in the New Testament. It appears you are making value judgments against others that if pressed for actual evidence, you would not really be able to produce it. Broad generalizations are never wise. It is the broad general opinion that has been so damaging for centuries. If you were a woman you'd be dancing to a different tune, so pardon me if I am not so accepting of your dance. Yet this is not reflected in how the Bible has been translated over the centuries by these "woman hating" scholars. It's just that avaible evidence doesn't support your assertion. You really havent' proven your assertions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted August 18, 2008 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.20 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 18, 2008 No...Jesus set things in motion so that the Church would change culture. However the Church has been rather slow and disobedient, and the deep-seated hatred of women has continued from one generation to the next until even now, it is still there and has become rather palatable in certain sectors--mainly the churches. It is not the will of God. Thank God that Spirit-led churches are moving ahead in this area. Yet, women play amazing roles in the New Testament and if this so-called "hatred of women" were so rampant among church leaders, and they were so bent upon suppressing things as you assert, we would not expect such positive views of the various women mentioned in the New Testament. It appears you are making value judgments against others that if pressed for actual evidence, you would not really be able to produce it. Broad generalizations are never wise. It is the broad general opinion that has been so damaging for centuries. If you were a woman you'd be dancing to a different tune, so pardon me if I am not so accepting of your dance. Im a woman and Im not dancing to a different tune. Shiloh, Ovedya, Matthitjah are all correct. Sorry Axe, but to go along with your view is to call Gods word a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehut Posted August 18, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,216 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 43 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1962 Share Posted August 18, 2008 1- It is a mindset that many people have that is based on a wrong interpretation of Paul. 2- causing the Kingdom workforce to be halved 1- I don't follow your reasoning here, axe. As early as Genesis, Eve was commanded to submit to her husband. I don't think she and Adam had were enslaved to a pile of cultural customs. And if a woman is commanded to submit to her husband, does it make sense that she can go to church and be in charge? Seems to me that Paul's instruction is perfectly consistent with the larger the Bible record, and there isn't much to "interpret." 2- Who has suggested that women can't serve in the Kingdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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