Women in ministry

[Guest Honolulu-Dad]

Excellent post Willow.

Historically, at the time Paul wrote to the church in Cornith (sp), the women and men sat on opposite sides of the sanctuary. As Willow pointed out, some of the women were, apparently, causing distractions to the service by calling out to their husbands when they did not understand something the Priest had said.

Paul, in his letter to the church, simply addresses the issue and instructs the women to wait until they get home and then they can ask their husbands to explain those things.

As far as women being in the ministry in general; the first persons ordained by Jesus Himself to go and preach the "Good News" were women. (Matthew 28:10)

Blessings all,

H-Dad

[jeffnevins]

I Cor. 14

As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Husband? What about unmarried women?

Anyway, I guess women aren't allowed to speak- at all.

Or maybe speak means speaking in front of the others in church.

Peter was sent to the Jews. Paul was sent to the Gentiles.

As Gentiles, we were grafted into the vine. We didn't have a thorough understanding of the Law as the Jews did. As Paul did.

If you read up on the church history, you'll find that the women spoken about in 1 Corinthians 14, the ones Paul said were to remain silent in the church, the women who wanted to inquire about something should "ask their own husbands at home."

From what I read in church history, the women would call out to their husbands during the sermon Paul was preaching and distract the others, which is why Paul told them to ask their husbands at home. Remember, Gentiles were NOT under the Law. Jewish women were not allowed to do a lot of things under the Law of Moses.

So, speaking out in church, asking questions, is what Paul wanted stopped.

When a man or woman prophesies, they have to speak out loud. Prophesies are spoken in the gathering of Believers which is commonly known as the Church or the Body of Christ.

We're reading a document that was written over thousands of years. The culture in the Bible is so far removed from the culture here in America that you can't compare the two. There are Hebrew idioms in the Bible that people often take as literal. Just as I could say, "You're a pain in the neck." But that doesn't mean, you are stuck in my neck and causing me pain. It's an idiom. Idioms are scattered all throughout the Bible.

Do we take the Bible literally today? If you do, then the next time your son or daughter talks back to you or disrespects you, the men in the city should have a right to stone them because that's what happened to disobedient sons. Under the Laws. How about today? Should a woman be stoned for touching a man?

Please, don't fly off the handle and think, Oh my, she doesn't believe in the Bible, because I do. You have to acquaint yourself with the culture of the people at the time of the Bible and with church history to understand parts of the New Testament. And unless you have a good understanding of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, there will always be disagreements concerning the Bible. And I'm not a Bible scholar. I just like to read up on things.

Look at the topic of slavery. America was the last country to get involved in the slave trade, but it was the first country to stop it within its borders. The Bible talks about slavery. Does that mean because it's in the Bible, that we, today, can have slaves? Of course not. Not everything in the Bible was meant to be taken literally. Especially, idioms.

We, Gentiles, were never under the Law and never will be.

And if we're supposed to start keeping the Law, then Jesus died for nothing.

Willow325

Ah, so that's what husbands refers to. Those married women there were speaking to husbands there.

And the rest, wow- thanks.

Yeah, it is tough when there's a lot between the lines (meanings of words, literal/non-lit, & jew/gentile stuff).

[Ovedya]

Ovedya;

Is that process something that is seen as adhering to scripture, or did it just happen organically? What I mean is the fact that the men are the "responsible ones", based specifically on scripture about the qualifications of an overseer, or did it just basically turn out that way?

I think the term developed as a means of avoiding the perception that we are trying to create a clergy-laity system. We believe strongly that the Body of Christ is first and foremost an organism, with Christ as the head and the members being arranged by Him. Although there is certainly an order in the Body, with certain members having more responsibility than others, there is no one member more important, gifted or that should receive more honor than another. Fact is, in Christendom pastors are generally viewed as being more gifted, more important, and they receive more honor than the other members. That is not because of who they are but because of religious perception. So we do have the eldership and the deacons in the churches. And if anyone asks us who the elders are, we point them out. But among us it's often easier just to say "responsible one."

[Ovedya]

Overseers are also Pastors.

The word "pastor" is only rendered once in terms of the church, in Ephesians 4:11. In that verse "pastors and teachers" are of one class. A "pastor" is a teacher and a teacher should be able to shepherd. A better translation is actually "shepherd" not "pastor." This group comprises the same type of office of the overseer. A shepherd is an overseer. Therefore there is still the eldership (overseers) and the deacons. There is no third class described.

We're going to have to disagree about deaconess. In Romans 16:1 there is a feminine form of "diakonos" used in reference to Phoebe. So if you take "deacon" to be an actual office of the church, why would you presume that Phoebe didn't hold such an office?

[Ovedya]

. The word used for servant in the scriptural passage of Romans 16:1 is "diakonos" in Greek. This word is used everywhere in the NT to designate the office of "minister". This same word is used to denote the office that Phoebe had in Cenchrea, but somehow the bias of the translators entered here and was translated as "servant"(upon encountering a female!). Both translations are correct, but the wrong connotation has been taken. Pastors indeed ARE servants! Elsewhere, wherever a minister was spoken of, if he was male, the word "diakonos" was transcribed as "minister", where "servant" is just as appropriate.

Keep in mind that when the N.T. was written the meaning of diakonos was only minister/servant. Where ever the translators have used

[Ovedya]

As far as women being in the ministry in general; the first persons ordained by Jesus Himself to go and preach the "Good News" were women. (Matthew 28:10)

Blessings all,

H-Dad

I think that interpretation is a bit of a stretch. The Lord has commanded all members of His Body to preach the Gospel. Women are not forbidden at all from preaching the Gospel. What is in contention here is whether they are permitted to teach or to have authority over a man.

[exrockstar]

I feel it is only proper and also serves to impede any kind of temptation.

this statement lets me know that the men (i.e.) are weak.

shoulnt have been in that position of authority in the first place.

No it tells us that they are human and are susceptible to all of the temptations of normal men. The problem is not that they are in a position of authority. The problem is that they did not guard themselves well enough while in that position.

You can lose the self-righteous tone anytime.

"guard themselves?"

it's all mind over matter.

[oak]

Friends, my church is about to embark upon the "debate" of women in ministry, especially wanting to include women as deacons. I am on staff at my church as youth minister...(female youth minister, baptist church). I too have struggled with this doctrinal question...the questions raised in 1 Tim chapter 3.

I pray this issue doesn't split our church but i know there are many on both sides of this doctrinal question. Myself? I felt a strong leading 5 years ago to serve the youth in my community as youth minister. It's the strongest leading i've ever had from the Lord, a true calling by the Lord. My church completely supported me and voted me in....98% "yes" to vote me in. So i know the Lord calls women.... However on the subject of deacons in the church, this congregation differes greatly. I too, struggle with what the Lord wants us to do in the area of women as deacons. I'm prayerfully wrestling with this topic along with my church.

Would any of you be willing to give me your prayful insights on this topic? What has God revealed to you on this subject? How does the scripture read to you? Your interpretation please. God Bless!

[oak]

Dear Sister Cindy:

I am not a Baptist, but I can offer you a few suggestions, since I find you to be very concerned about your Church and its direction concerning women clergy. First and foremost, I feel all your parish should be directed to pleasing God, first. That care and concern should be on every one

[OneLight]

Helper is prostatis--not as one who helps as in a helps ministry, but as one in strngth, teaching and stooping to aid those in need...the weak and those in need of knowledge.

It is only those who consider what women did in the first churches as merely helps, who are leaning on their own understanding.

A) 4368: prestatis:

1) a woman set over others

2) a female guardian, protectress, patroness, caring for the affairs of others and aiding them with her resources.

B) The word denoted those in Athens who were the patrons, i.e., took care fo strangers. In Romans 16:2, it means patroness, helper

_______________

A) is from Blue Letter Bible

B) is from the New Testament Complete Word Study Dictionary, edited by Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D.

Nowhere does this imply that she was either a preacher or a deacon, as you stated before.

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I am, in fact, leaning on the word of God, not adding to nor subtracting from. Let's discuss the subject at hand and not take pot shots at the person posting. This is against the TOS, which I am sure you are very aware of, since you have posted so many times and have been here longer then I have.

In His Love,

OneLight