yesult Posted July 14, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 326 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/12/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted July 14, 2008 (edited) Prov 22:15 Folly is bound up in the heart of a boy, but the rod of discipline drives it away. Prov 13:24 Those who spare the rod, hate their children but those who love them are diligent to discipline them. Prov 23:13 Do not withhold discipline from your children, if you beat them with a rod, they will not die. If you beat them with a rod, you will save their lives from sheol. Prov 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a mother is disgraced by a neglected child. Prov 29:17 Discipline your children, and they will give you rest, they will give delight to your heart. Prov 19:18 Discipline your children while there is hope; do not set your heart on their destruction. Discipline is not abuse. Spare the rod and spoil the child. As already quoted. Probably the most famous scripture, but think about the word 'spoil'. Watch a lovely piece of fruit like an apple or an orange slowly spoiling and you get the idea. It means ruin. Instilling discipline in children means that they'll have it to work out of as adults. Don't teach them discipline and they won't (and you can see why the bible tells us it will ruin them.) The most miserable kids I've tended to come across have always been the ones who wern't disciplined properly. Either they were abused or neglected (or both). A brat is not a happy kid. That's neglect. (An abused child is not a happy kid, either.) Discipline is not abuse. That is where our society has gotten this subject so warped and twisted. Gods discipline is done in love. Imagine if he never disciplined any of us? Can you picture what 'christianity' would look like? It'd be a joke. What does it look like when his children refuse his discipline? I think most of us can answer that one. We're supposed to treat our kids the same way. Spoiling our children (who belong to God anyway but he's entrusted us with their upbringing) is not loving them. Edited July 14, 2008 by yesult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axxman Posted July 14, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,292 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 14, 2008 Just so we are ALL clear... No one is advocating NO discipline. We are discussing ONE form of discipline. I use MANY forms of discipline with my four children. My children are no more fond of discipline than any other child. However, my children are not afraid of being hit (in any form) by their parents. Another thing I'd like to point out is that some people are starting to post the bible verses that they use to support spanking. I would just like to offer caution because some of those verses use the word "beat." That word in association with the topic of spanking upsets parents who spank. I would also like to say that spanking is NOT abuse. I would never go so far as to accuse a loving parent who is doing their best to raise Godly children of abusing them. As parents we are ALL just trying to do our best and NO ONE has all the answers. We've all seen good children come out of bad haomes...and bad children come out of good homes. There is no fool proof formula. The absolute best we can do is pray over our kids and ask that God raise them up inspite of our faults. With that said...if it was possible to raise Godly children without ever hitting them (and it is possible) wouldn't you want to take that path? Since parents have raised kids without spanking them and they have turned out just fine...does that make the word of God a lie?? Or...is it just possible that there is a different meaning behind those few verses that people use to condone spanking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted July 14, 2008 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted July 14, 2008 no spanking is not biblical but many christians stick to the old testament laws and in some culturs its normal for a parent to beat their child if they step out of line with a rod or a stick or a branch i am of croation background my self and i too was pulled into line by my father he also was brought up the old way i was taught at a young age to respect my elders no back chatting no swearing if i swore or if i did something i should not be doing my dad would belt me in front of his friends often he would use the extension cord or make me kneel on rice and i can tell you when you use an extension cord on a child it leavs marks and i had to often cover up for my father when i was questioned by the teachers and the principal today laws are set up to prottect our kids as some parents go to far in Australia you cant do this and if a parent is seen doing this the public has a right to call the police or ring department off community services in your part of the world family services there are better ways of punishing your kids you cant tel me the old ways work like i was raised up all this does is get the child angry to the point where they rebel and hate the father or the mother i Grew up hating my old man for how i was brought up and the kids i have talked to that have been punished like i was have all said the same thing God bless from damo I recently attended a school function and I can tell you discipline is non-existant...why....cause the kids have no fear what so ever....they do as they please and thumb their nose at you.....now I'm not going to say that spanking(NOT BEATING, your father was a bad person, like mine) would solve all of this , but it would certainly be a good start. yugoslavian boys are raised up to be tuff and are taught at a young age to respect your elders i use to also work with dammaged youth hunter poet the kids i would deal with where very dammaged the boy i had just gotten to know stabed a youth worker he is only 12yrs old hunter poet i also see this in australia so you are trying to tell me the way my old man took his anger out on my was a good thing would you handle kneeling on rice for half an hour with your hands on your head and then have your old man lay into you ? also i was raped at a young age by my old man i should not have covered up for him or should have i lied for my old man when ever i was called into the principals office and questioned wear i was living not one person said a thing every one stuck to them selves the parents new what my father was like and they would hear him yelling at my mother constantly i had to throw my self in the midle trying to shield her the best way i can one day dad got his gun out and was ready to use i stood my ground and challanged him and told him to pull the triger also he took his anger out on my half sister and raped her i should have put what my old man was like so there was no confussion i am against parents who step out off line their are better ways in dealing with troubled kids i know work in a nursing home as a male carer but i still have regular contac with the troubled youth i had gotten to know i do a fair bit of mentoring work and counsling over the weekend and on my days off i just recently lead a gang leader to the lord and this kid know wants to be a role model and he has come a long way i deal with kids your leaders would not deal with or your youth pastor the kids i get have all come from brokken homes the youngest has been in a fair bit of trouble with the law he has been living on the streets since he was 8yrs old we have just gotten him off herroin and speed he is about to be adopted a family wants to give this kid a fresh start i forgave my father for what he put me threw but my half sister has not she still holds on to the past and is very bitter there are bad parents living among us who should not be allowed to have kids hunter poet and i am sorry to hear that your father was a bad father i am not putting you down or am i wanting to get into a biblical argument with you God bless from damo I'm sorry for your troubles as a youth Damo, the beatings I endured were nothing compared to yours, nor was I raped, but still you cannot compare the sick and twisted things your father did to you with a well structured loving form of discipline meant to help the person grow. The answer to all of this of course is for the people themselves to intervein and when nessecary, prosecution. Education is the biggest key. Interestingly enough, one thing I learned along the way has always stuck with me. When it comes to children, if you can't out think them, your missing something and need to be paying closer attention, especially if you are in the business of child care of any type. There is no question that people need to be taught discipline, in order to aquire self- discipline. As you work with these young people, I hope you teach them the importance of why we do things the way we do...a long ardous journey for sure. I pray you strength and patience. May G-d bless you for your efforts. ybiC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damo1 Posted July 14, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,822 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 19 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/16/1967 Share Posted July 14, 2008 no spanking is not biblical but many christians stick to the old testament laws and in some culturs its normal for a parent to beat their child if they step out of line with a rod or a stick or a branch i am of croation background my self and i too was pulled into line by my father he also was brought up the old way i was taught at a young age to respect my elders no back chatting no swearing if i swore or if i did something i should not be doing my dad would belt me in front of his friends often he would use the extension cord or make me kneel on rice and i can tell you when you use an extension cord on a child it leavs marks and i had to often cover up for my father when i was questioned by the teachers and the principal today laws are set up to prottect our kids as some parents go to far in Australia you cant do this and if a parent is seen doing this the public has a right to call the police or ring department off community services in your part of the world family services there are better ways of punishing your kids you cant tel me the old ways work like i was raised up all this does is get the child angry to the point where they rebel and hate the father or the mother i Grew up hating my old man for how i was brought up and the kids i have talked to that have been punished like i was have all said the same thing God bless from damo I recently attended a school function and I can tell you discipline is non-existant...why....cause the kids have no fear what so ever....they do as they please and thumb their nose at you.....now I'm not going to say that spanking(NOT BEATING, your father was a bad person, like mine) would solve all of this , but it would certainly be a good start. yugoslavian boys are raised up to be tuff and are taught at a young age to respect your elders i use to also work with dammaged youth hunter poet the kids i would deal with where very dammaged the boy i had just gotten to know stabed a youth worker he is only 12yrs old hunter poet i also see this in australia so you are trying to tell me the way my old man took his anger out on my was a good thing would you handle kneeling on rice for half an hour with your hands on your head and then have your old man lay into you ? also i was raped at a young age by my old man i should not have covered up for him or should have i lied for my old man when ever i was called into the principals office and questioned wear i was living not one person said a thing every one stuck to them selves the parents new what my father was like and they would hear him yelling at my mother constantly i had to throw my self in the midle trying to shield her the best way i can one day dad got his gun out and was ready to use i stood my ground and challanged him and told him to pull the triger also he took his anger out on my half sister and raped her i should have put what my old man was like so there was no confussion i am against parents who step out off line their are better ways in dealing with troubled kids i know work in a nursing home as a male carer but i still have regular contac with the troubled youth i had gotten to know i do a fair bit of mentoring work and counsling over the weekend and on my days off i just recently lead a gang leader to the lord and this kid know wants to be a role model and he has come a long way i deal with kids your leaders would not deal with or your youth pastor the kids i get have all come from brokken homes the youngest has been in a fair bit of trouble with the law he has been living on the streets since he was 8yrs old we have just gotten him off herroin and speed he is about to be adopted a family wants to give this kid a fresh start i forgave my father for what he put me threw but my half sister has not she still holds on to the past and is very bitter there are bad parents living among us who should not be allowed to have kids hunter poet and i am sorry to hear that your father was a bad father i am not putting you down or am i wanting to get into a biblical argument with you God bless from damo I'm sorry for your troubles as a youth Damo, the beatings I endured were nothing compared to yours, nor was I raped, but still you cannot compare the sick and twisted things your father did to you with a well structured loving form of discipline meant to help the person grow. The answer to all of this of course is for the people themselves to intervein and when nessecary, prosecution. Education is the biggest key. Interestingly enough, one thing I learned along the way has always stuck with me. When it comes to children, if you can't out think them, your missing something and need to be paying closer attention, especially if you are in the business of child care of any type. There is no question that people need to be taught discipline, in order to aquire self- discipline. As you work with these young people, I hope you teach them the importance of why we do things the way we do...a long ardous journey for sure. I pray you strength and patience. May G-d bless you for your efforts. ybiC Hay Hunter poet thank you brother and i am sorry also to hear what you had to endure as a teenager and you are right by what you have said and we are doing this with these troubled and damaged youth i am in support for godly discipline and kids today dont tend to show any sort of respect towards there parents or grand parents this is whats puzzled me to how lost this world is we have a lot to offer to this hurting world the more i read gods word i am seeing that the bible has good sound advice its the only hope we can give to those living on the edge and i am sharing what god has done in my life to these young boys that end up being sent to life with out barriers we are teaching them so that when they are ready to settle down weather in there own place or where a family adopts them they will know how to behave to where they become responsible we need guys like your self as kids today have no role models this is what we are seeing i pray that god blesses you and your family and in what ever you are doing for the lord i pray that he watches over your life God bless from damo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mekeelin_ujohn Posted July 20, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 13 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/27/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/05/1986 Author Share Posted July 20, 2008 You know, I like what axxman said about raising a child in Christ, if you can do it without hitting, why not? I would never cross the line and say my dad abused us, but to be honest we exhausted him. It was hard for him raising three kids alone and we did not make it easy for him. Now that I have assumed responsibility for my nephew now, as he lives under my roof, is there an alternative to spanking that will still lead to respect...and love...and godly character? I will now mosey over to the parents section and see what all the fuss is about over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resting in Christ Posted July 20, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 63 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/13/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2008 Spanking is NOT biblical...it is not in the bible. Even if you take the Proverbs verses to mean striking children with rods ...that is not what parents today do. I believe that if people really believe the bible teaches corporal punishment as a parenting technique then they should do it the way the bible says. Use a wooden rod/staff and beat their kids on the back...rather than follow of the man-made guidelines that people follow today. I have 4 children. We are raising them to be Godly, well-behaved, respectful children. On those occasions when they do require discipline there is ALWAYS an alternative to physically harming them...always. Spanking does less physical harm than a insect bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Spanking is NOT biblical...it is not in the bible. Even if you take the Proverbs verses to mean striking children with rods ...that is not what parents today do. I believe that if people really believe the bible teaches corporal punishment as a parenting technique then they should do it the way the bible says. Use a wooden rod/staff and beat their kids on the back...rather than follow of the man-made guidelines that people follow today. I have 4 children. We are raising them to be Godly, well-behaved, respectful children. On those occasions when they do require discipline there is ALWAYS an alternative to physically harming them...always. Spanking does less physical harm than a insect bite. true. and actually, spanking should cause NO physical harm. a little sting on the bottom is not harmful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axxman Posted July 20, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,292 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2008 Spanking does less physical harm than a insect bite. Maybe I missed something...are people claiming that the bible tells us to allow insects to bite their kids??? It doesn't matter what you compare it to...spanking is not in the bible! Now if you choose to take the bible literally, then beating a child with a rod is in the bible...and I'd like you to show me how beating a child with a rod is less harmful than an insect bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axxman Posted July 20, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,292 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 20, 2008 Axx .. everything is always a fight with you .. you need to learn to pick your battles and when to let things go ... sorry but you did the exact same thing a couple months ago ... As long as people are willing to keep a good convo going...I'll be there. I think I do pick my "battles"...I happen to like this topic because its about hitting kids. If I can show peopple that there is a way to biblically raise Godly children without hitting them then I am all in. And if people want to disagree with me...then thats okay too. You are right though...these topics go in cycles..about every 4-6 months...lol. I'm gearing up for the next round of "divorce" and "Christmas" debates that are gonna be popping up anytime now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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