irishcowboy Posted July 31, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2008 What happens if a Christian commits suicide? Do they go to heaven or sent to hell? They will go to heaven. I do not know, that is between the Lord and the person..... it is obvious that the person did not trust God enough to handle the situation for them and they thought this was the only way out..... I do not think anyone really knows for sure..... i do know how i felt a number of years ago, and i look back and I am so glad that God can handle all things, for with out the Lord, i may have been one that did...... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted July 31, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2008 Suicide is a selfish act, thinking only of ones self and not of anyone or anything else. it is an act of self pity, an act of hatred (or bitterness), not love. it is an act of being self centered. we are to rejoice in all things..... there were two men, doing what they believe they were suppose to be doing, sharing the word of God, going from community to community, and the authorities finally catch up to them and arrest them.... they imprison them, and they are bound over for trial with out bond....... the penalty is death, probably after being tortured before hand...... whooo is me, oh these people just hate us (Nancy Olsen syndrome) every body hates me, no body likes me, guess i'll eat some worms............. might as well do away with myself now.... it dont look good..... we are going to die anyways....... or PRAISE GOD FROM WHOM ALL BLESSINGS FLOW........PRAISE THE FATHER, THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS, MY PROVIDER..... what would have happened if Paul had been put in a cell with sister bucketmouth? would there have been a miracle???? or would there just been complaining and grumbling???? The Praises that came from the depths of that prison shook the bonds loose, our praises to the Lord can do the same, they can shake the bonds loose.... no matter what they are...... Before the blessing comes we have some trials...... Jacob, wrestled (more like faught) with an angel through out the entire night. Remember, the Seraphim's? six wings, flying about the throne room? two wings covering his face, two wings covering his feet..... here is a creature that is such in stature that he could rip an man to shreds with out even thinking twice..... Jacob fighting for his life...... and as dawn comes near, the angel is trying to get loose, and Jacob, he knows that after the struggle there is to be a blessing..... so he will not let the angel go until he is blessed...... is the struggle we are going through just the struggle that is to be there prior to the blessing????? are we just going to drop and give up? or are we going to preserver????? you wake up one day, and you go to leave your house through the front door, and there is a stone, a huge stone in front of it, blocking your way..... you have a choice to make, you can either leave the stone in place, or you can push against it. pushing against it, you may not move it.....TODAY.... you push on it for hours a day, but use the back door to enter and exit for the time being..... and one day you notice that it has moved just a tad bit.... later you notice it has moved even more and now you can even rock it back and forth..... days/weeks/months from the day it showed up, it has moved a foot.... you continue pushing on it every day, using the back door to enter and exit..... and pretty soon, you wake up, and go and give it a push and it moves completely out of the way...... you have struggled for a very long time against this adversary, and you have received a blessing that you would not have received had you just used the back door this entire time... your muscles are strong, your body is fine tuned..... had you not struggled, you would still be using the back door, and your muscles still would be weak and puny. and you would still be grumbling about the rock in the way.... life is like that, we have struggles each and every day, a challenge each and every day.... our attitude is what makes the difference..... will suicide send a person to hell??? i do not know, that is between God and the person..... mike for some one that is feeling like suicide, stop for a time, listen............ take the Bible and spend some time in it, each and every day..... THATS RIGHT EVERY DAY........ that is what got me through, not shrinks, not doctors, not friends, not family........THE WORD OF GOD is what got me through.... seriously, that was the only way i made it, for suicide was an everyday thought, a thought that had come to me so subtle that i did not realize how close i was until i was away from it...... The Spirit of God got hold of me, and showed me what I needed in the Word of God, when I realized what was going on, I rebuked the devil and continued on in the Word of God.... that was a number of years ago, and since then, well, I know that I have everything going for me, even during the time of troubles and tribulations and struggles, i know God will and does provide..... last year (2007) i was unemployed for 3 months and only partially employed for 4 months, we struggled for a time, scrapped bottom, Teresa has not worked now for 2 years due to a workmans comp injury and has not received a dime from it..... we have no insurance, we thought we were going to have to loose the houses that God provided (we now have 10 dwellings) and our vehicle...... we continued to tithe, even if there was only 50 bucks coming in that week, we tithed, and God provided..... we are doing well...... friends???? yea, only a friend can betray you....... I know..... .been there, done that, do not let man get you down, look up to the Lord...... Daniel, in the lions den, was he looking at the lions? no!!!!!!!!! he was looking at the Lord, and the Lord provided.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted July 31, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Very true - forcing yourself to focus on Jesus is your lifeline (!!!). I have to say, though, that it always grates me wrong when people speak of suicide as "selfish" and a "lack of trust". Imagine having gone for a week withouth food (not by choice, but for lack of food). Then finally there is food available, but to eat it you would have to steal it. (Forgive my lack of creativity to come up wih a believable scenario, but for the sake of understanding, please play along, OK?) So here you have a delimma. Every fiber of your being is crying out for you to grab that food and shove it in your mouth. But your conscience tells you it is wrong to steal. The food is there in front of your eyes, the smell pierces your soul . . . are the consequences of stealing greater than the instant, longed for relief that this food would bring to you? Do you even care at this point? you just need food...you just need food...you just need food.... This is what it is like for someone struggling with suicide. Although it is possible to resist, doing so is very, very, very difficult. I can think of many bad, unpleasant and difficult situations and circumstances I would hate to have to re-live, but I would sooner struggle with those again rather than the struggle with suicide. take the Bible and spend some time in it, each and every day..... THATS RIGHT EVERY DAY........ that is what got me through, not shrinks, not doctors, not friends, not family........THE WORD OF GOD is what got me through.... seriously, that was the only way i made it, for suicide was an everyday thought, a thought that had come to me so subtle that i did not realize how close i was until i was away from it...... The Spirit of God got hold of me, and showed me what I needed in the Word of God, when I realized what was going on, I rebuked the devil and continued on in the Word of God.... that was a number of years ago, and since then, well, I know that I have everything going for me, even during the time of troubles and tribulations and struggles, i know God will and does provide..... Praise the Lord for that fighting spirit within you! I wish I had been able to do that...but it would have taken being able to believe I was valuable enough to fight for.... I agree about clinging to the Word, though. Praise and worship, filling your mind with Scripture, the prayers of fellow believers . . . these will keep you strong. "Life is hard, but God is good." We all go through various struggles - it's the consequence of living in a fallen world. But the Lord's plan is life. Find Him in the pain, find Him through the pain. Seek to find Him. Mike's advice provides ways of doing that. Just keep pressing in. God is good! God is good! God is good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~ angelique ~~ Posted August 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 665 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/24/1968 Author Share Posted August 2, 2008 Suicide is a selfish act, thinking only of ones self and not of anyone or anything else. it is an act of self pity, an act of hatred (or bitterness), not love. it is an act of being self centered. we are to rejoice in all things..... there were two men, doing what they believe they were suppose to be doing, sharing the word of God, going from community to community, and the authorities finally catch up to them and arrest them.... they imprison them, and they are bound over for trial with out bond....... the penalty is death, probably after being tortured before hand...... whooo is me, oh these people just hate us (Nancy Olsen syndrome) every body hates me, no body likes me, guess i'll eat some worms............. might as well do away with myself now.... it dont look good..... we are going to die anyways....... or PRAISE GOD FROM WHOM ALL BLESSINGS FLOW........PRAISE THE FATHER, THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS, MY PROVIDER..... what would have happened if Paul had been put in a cell with sister bucketmouth? would there have been a miracle???? or would there just been complaining and grumbling???? The Praises that came from the depths of that prison shook the bonds loose, our praises to the Lord can do the same, they can shake the bonds loose.... no matter what they are...... Before the blessing comes we have some trials...... Jacob, wrestled (more like faught) with an angel through out the entire night. Remember, the Seraphim's? six wings, flying about the throne room? two wings covering his face, two wings covering his feet..... here is a creature that is such in stature that he could rip an man to shreds with out even thinking twice..... Jacob fighting for his life...... and as dawn comes near, the angel is trying to get loose, and Jacob, he knows that after the struggle there is to be a blessing..... so he will not let the angel go until he is blessed...... is the struggle we are going through just the struggle that is to be there prior to the blessing????? are we just going to drop and give up? or are we going to preserver????? you wake up one day, and you go to leave your house through the front door, and there is a stone, a huge stone in front of it, blocking your way..... you have a choice to make, you can either leave the stone in place, or you can push against it. pushing against it, you may not move it.....TODAY.... you push on it for hours a day, but use the back door to enter and exit for the time being..... and one day you notice that it has moved just a tad bit.... later you notice it has moved even more and now you can even rock it back and forth..... days/weeks/months from the day it showed up, it has moved a foot.... you continue pushing on it every day, using the back door to enter and exit..... and pretty soon, you wake up, and go and give it a push and it moves completely out of the way...... you have struggled for a very long time against this adversary, and you have received a blessing that you would not have received had you just used the back door this entire time... your muscles are strong, your body is fine tuned..... had you not struggled, you would still be using the back door, and your muscles still would be weak and puny. and you would still be grumbling about the rock in the way.... life is like that, we have struggles each and every day, a challenge each and every day.... our attitude is what makes the difference..... will suicide send a person to hell??? i do not know, that is between God and the person..... mike for some one that is feeling like suicide, stop for a time, listen............ take the Bible and spend some time in it, each and every day..... THATS RIGHT EVERY DAY........ that is what got me through, not shrinks, not doctors, not friends, not family........THE WORD OF GOD is what got me through.... seriously, that was the only way i made it, for suicide was an everyday thought, a thought that had come to me so subtle that i did not realize how close i was until i was away from it...... The Spirit of God got hold of me, and showed me what I needed in the Word of God, when I realized what was going on, I rebuked the devil and continued on in the Word of God.... that was a number of years ago, and since then, well, I know that I have everything going for me, even during the time of troubles and tribulations and struggles, i know God will and does provide..... last year (2007) i was unemployed for 3 months and only partially employed for 4 months, we struggled for a time, scrapped bottom, Teresa has not worked now for 2 years due to a workmans comp injury and has not received a dime from it..... we have no insurance, we thought we were going to have to loose the houses that God provided (we now have 10 dwellings) and our vehicle...... we continued to tithe, even if there was only 50 bucks coming in that week, we tithed, and God provided..... we are doing well...... friends???? yea, only a friend can betray you....... I know..... .been there, done that, do not let man get you down, look up to the Lord...... Daniel, in the lions den, was he looking at the lions? no!!!!!!!!! he was looking at the Lord, and the Lord provided.......... I respect your opinion; however, I disagree with the statement that it's selfish. If ones life has been a living hell from the inception of your life, how can one says it's selfish? I don't think it's right to say it's selfish unless you fully know a persons situation. :24: I have had a couple of friends in my lifetime that have committed suicide. I knew the hell they lived daily. I understood the "why" they did it and so did their families. It wasn't easy but it was completely understood. If pain is all you've ever known, how do you come to realize there is something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Honolulu-Dad Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 Good question! In fact, it make me wonder............ If a person is a born-again believer, a temple of the Holy Spirit, would not his/her own spirit rise up and over-power the flesh against such an act? It just seems to me that "Christians" do not commit suicide. The taking of ones own life is an utter act of dispair and hopelessness and I don't think Christians sink quite that low. I attempted suicide four times in my life, but, once I came to the saving knowledge of Christ and asked Jesus to come into my heart, I have never felt that way again. I have gotten severely depressed during times of isolation, but, Jesus kept His promise to never leave, nor, forsake me. Anyway, that is my thought on the topic. Again, good question. God bless and aloha, H-Dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 8, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 8, 2008 I respect your opinion; however, I disagree with the statement that it's selfish. If ones life has been a living hell from the inception of your life, how can one says it's selfish? I don't think it's right to say it's selfish unless you fully know a persons situation. I have had a couple of friends in my lifetime that have committed suicide. I knew the hell they lived daily. I understood the "why" they did it and so did their families. It wasn't easy but it was completely understood. If pain is all you've ever known, how do you come to realize there is something else? If one is a born again Christian and yet becomes so sick with depression that he loses it and commits suicide, he will find rest in Christ Jesus. Some believers do "lose it', not claiming their victory. If one is carnal all his life, and makes only a mental assent to Christ, the destiny of that one's soul is in jeopardy. If one considers one's entire life as hell on earth, I have to wonder who their Lord really is. There really is a physical hell that will make the trials of this life seem like a Hawaiian vacation by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted August 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 10, 2008 I respect your opinion; however, I disagree with the statement that it's selfish. If ones life has been a living hell from the inception of your life, how can one says it's selfish? I don't think it's right to say it's selfish unless you fully know a persons situation. I have had a couple of friends in my lifetime that have committed suicide. I knew the hell they lived daily. I understood the "why" they did it and so did their families. It wasn't easy but it was completely understood. If pain is all you've ever known, how do you come to realize there is something else? that is a good question, about the pain that is........ you see, I was there, and how did I come to realize there is something else? I didn't until the Holy Spirit instilled it in me, that I needed to do certain things. I was raised in church, I was the first one to earn/receive the God and Country award in our scout troop in over 20 years. I studied hours upon hours in the Bible growing up. reading, researching, looking..... through all this time, I was alone on this earth, even in my own family, i have not been what one would call accepted (mom did, dad did, siblings? not one of them, out of 7 of us).... during my school years, i only had what i thought was a friend (2) and they showed their true colours in time, I believe I would rather have had Judas by my side..... while in the military, again, i was more alone then a part of any crowd or group. and even after getting married, the last ten years of that marriage, i slept alone.... literally...... I would have been better off having put up a tarp on the roof of the house then to have lived inside it.... I did not realize i was so close to suicide until i started having symptoms (physical pain that never ended, that was with me 24/7) going on for several years, I did my best to ignore the pain. then it got worse, at first i thought (as well as the doc) it might be Gulf War Syndrome or maybe Fibro Myalgia . through a series of tests, it was proven not to be, but then i had problems walking, i would be walking across the room and then be flat on my face for no reason i knew. it would happen at some of the oddest times, the pain was getting worse. ( I was still reading and studying my Bible,and spending time in prayer daily, alone ).... The doctor decided to pull all stops on testing and started a series of other test, to include a shrink, i use the term shrink with the highest respect, for the first visit, she had me start on a series of test (questions), and she saw where I was at, (as did my own doc, that is why he had me go to her), upon the completion of these test, she had me speak with another doctor, and between the three of them, they worried about my safety (suicide).... I was not concerned about it, i thought about it daily and it didn't bother me at all, i would drive over a bridge and think this would be a good one to drive off of, or drive by an electrical transfer station and think that that would surly be a good way to do it, every thing i saw, I saw great possibilities on how to do it, even planned some out..... the pain continued to get worse, and on one visit, the Neurologist had ordered testing of the nerves, and after that electrical continuity testing of the nerves, i was scheduled for a muscle biopsy to test for M.S. that is how bad it had gotten with my walking and falling and such.... the pain had not gotten any better..... it had gotten so bad at the house, that I was about to take off driving in one direction, and park my truck in an area that it would not be checked out on for a while and then head off in another direction and disappear from this house.... during a trip I was making and decided this would be the time to abandon everything, I ate breakfast friday morning, and took off that evening, and drove for about 1000 miles one direction, stopping only for gas, coffee and bathroom.... I sang, i prayed, i cried, i yelled, i stomped, i complained and at times i was in so much pain all i could do was moan.... I tried to read the Bible at times, but i could not even focus on one paragraph at a time, i would read it and i had no idea what i had just read.... I did this straight until about 2 am Sunday morning, no sleep, no food (the first time i had ever fasted and it was by accident on my part) and at about 2 AM Sunday morning, my body had no more pain..... not even a twinge..... I started Praising the Lord with everything I had, i was jumping, dancing, yelling, yahoooing, laughing, no more pain... and now for a 1000 mile trip home, for the Lord instilled in me that I had some one that was depending on me... my kids... they needed me.... so i turned around and headed back home.... no sleep since i woke up at about 530 friday morning, and now it is Sunday morning and it is now light out, over 48 hours later. God gave me the strength to make the drive, again stopping only for gas, coffee and bathroom, no food, and was totally awake when i pulled up in the drive very late Sunday Night (actually Monday morning)..... I laid down and my eyes went closed until about 6 am monday morning, when i got up and i was still not hungry, but had some cereal at about 7 before i went back to work..... this is only a portion of what I had in my life, and again, I still stand by the fact it is a selfish act. for when I took my eyes off of me, things changed, even though it took many years, it changed. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted August 10, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted August 10, 2008 That's an awesome testimony, Mike! But although I agree that technically suicide is selfish, I disagree with utilizing the selfish aspect of suicide for counsel in all cases. Because we are different, and the cause behind our temptation towards suicide is different, we can't rely on "what worked for me" to work for everyone. It's good to share how you overcame, though. For we can learn from each other. But we all have to discover our own healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted August 11, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 11, 2008 Judas was at one time a saved man. He had the Holy Spirit and power like the other apostles and he was a sucessful preacher and healer like them (Matt. 10:1-20; Mark 6:7-13). He had his name WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE in Heaven as prived by Acts 1:20 with Psalms 69:25-29. He fell from the apostleship by transgression (Acts 1:15-25). It was not untill the end of Christs ministry that Judas began to pilfer and to grow cold in his love for Christ. It was not until the last supper that the devil entered into him, that is, became united with him in the same crime. It was two days before the passover that he put into the heart of Judas to go to the enemies of Jesus to betray him. into their hands (Matt. 26:1-5, 14-16; John 13:2). It was at this time that he openly broke with Christ and saught opportunity to betray Him. Judas was sorry afterwards for his betrayal (Matt. 27:3-5). He could have repented and been forgiven as much as any of the others who cursed, denied Christ, and fled like cowards in the test. But being of a disposition to do so, he brooded over his fall and yielded to temptation to commit suicide. His name was then removed from the book of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~ angelique ~~ Posted August 12, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 85 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 665 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/11/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/24/1968 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 Judas was at one time a saved man. He had the Holy Spirit and power like the other apostles and he was a sucessful preacher and healer like them (Matt. 10:1-20; Mark 6:7-13). He had his name WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE in Heaven as prived by Acts 1:20 with Psalms 69:25-29. He fell from the apostleship by transgression (Acts 1:15-25). It was not untill the end of Christs ministry that Judas began to pilfer and to grow cold in his love for Christ. It was not until the last supper that the devil entered into him, that is, became united with him in the same crime. It was two days before the passover that he put into the heart of Judas to go to the enemies of Jesus to betray him. into their hands (Matt. 26:1-5, 14-16; John 13:2). It was at this time that he openly broke with Christ and saught opportunity to betray Him. Judas was sorry afterwards for his betrayal (Matt. 27:3-5). He could have repented and been forgiven as much as any of the others who cursed, denied Christ, and fled like cowards in the test. But being of a disposition to do so, he brooded over his fall and yielded to temptation to commit suicide. His name was then removed from the book of life And, Peter denied Jesus three times but he was accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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