drayden Posted August 20, 2008 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/20/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2008 I am so dicouraged .My spouse belives we make no desisions ,we are prestined or we are not. That we can not accept christ .I have tried attending church,but he believes all that we have attended are false teachers. His belielfs are so dark and discouraging. If i diagree with him he says i disagree with the bible and do not believe the word of god.Or that i do not have ears to hear. This is just an example: The Two Christ. Preachers and Bible teachers very seldom talk or even think of teaching, how to spot false doctrines of Christianity. The lack of this teaching should be a indicator in it self, something is wrong.( after all as long as you "accept christ" it's ok, you, "get saved" and all is good ) very few in the world today, would even think of questioning this doctrine or instruction; and if anyone puts up any real opposition to this wide spread believe, he or she must be deceived or has joined an acult. This is what is said, if you go against the grain, just remember the grain of this world run true and strait, strait to hell. But what does the Bible actully say about this subject? t 7:15 BewareG4337 ofG575 false prophets,G5578 whichG3748 comeG2064 toG4314 youG5209 inG1722 sheep'sG4263 clothing,G1742 butG1161 inwardlyG2081 they areG1526 raveningG727 wolves.G3074 Mat 7:21 NotG3756 every oneG3956 that saithG3004 unto me,G3427 Lord,G2962 Lord,G2962 shall enterG1525 intoG1519 theG3588 kingdomG932 of heaven;G3772 butG235 he that doethG4160 theG3588 willG2307 of myG3450 FatherG3962 whichG3588 is inG1722 heaven.G3772 Mat 7:22 ManyG4183 will sayG2046 to meG3427 inG1722 thatG1565 day,G2250 Lord,G2962 Lord,G2962 have we notG3756 prophesiedG4395 in thyG4674 name?G3686 andG2532 in thyG4674 nameG3686 have cast outG1544 devils?G1140 andG2532 in thyG4674 nameG3686 doneG4160 manyG4183 wonderful works?G1411 Mat 7:23 AndG2532 thenG5119 will I professG3670 unto them,G846 I neverG3763 knewG1097 you:G5209 departG672 fromG575 me,G1700 ye that workG2038 iniquity.G458 From the seventh chapter of Matthew, it's plain to see, they (false teachers) will look and sound just like the real thing, and according to Christ many will be affected v.22 (thrown in Hell) come back to ch. to see how to know them and who will be ok v.24 Now lets look at the 24th chapter, the disciples ask Christ a question in v.3 AndG1161 as heG846 satG2521 uponG1909 theG3588 mountG3735 of Olives,G1636 theG3588 disciplesG3101 cameG4334 unto himG846 privately,G2596 G2398 saying,G3004 TellG2036 us,G2254 whenG4219 shall these thingsG5023 be?G2071 andG2532 whatG5101 shall be theG3588 signG4592 of thyG4674 coming,G3952 andG2532 of theG3588 endG4930 of theG3588 world?G165 Take note of the first words out of his mouth "Take heedG991 that noG3361 manG5100 deceiveG4105 you".G5209 this subject of false doctrine and teachers is on his mind from the start of this teaching.... Mat 24:5 ForG1063 manyG4183 shall comeG2064 inG1909 myG3450 name,G3686 saying,G3004 IG1473 amG1510 Christ;G5547 andG2532 shall deceiveG4105 many.G418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted August 20, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 20, 2008 Welcome to Worthy. The Bible teaches 2 truths. God is absolutely sovereign. And people make decisions for which God holds them responsible and have real consequences. Both are true. There is a mystery in how they work themselves out. I am going to move this to the Doctrinal Issues forum from Worthy Welcome as it will fit better there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trusting Jesus Posted August 20, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,050 Content Per Day: 0.34 Reputation: 22 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/12/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/09/1952 Share Posted August 20, 2008 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matthew 29:19-20 These words were spoken by Jesus to His disciples. If there was no choice on our part, why would Jesus (God the Son) tell them to go out to all nations teaching and baptizing? God exists outside of time as we know it, and He knows the end from the beginning. He knows who will accept Him and who won't, but we don't know. So we need to tell everyone we can about Jesus and salvation. "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God". Romans 10:17 <>< ><> Nathele Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blien Posted August 20, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 346 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,050 Content Per Day: 0.50 Reputation: 46 Days Won: 3 Joined: 10/02/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1982 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Its true that that whole issue of once saved and always saved is over played and people even pastors ignore the rest of the Bible's teachings on salvation. It's demonstrated throughout the whole Bible how a person must be saved. Even in the Old testament! Its all about the heart! Not what someone confesses one day and doesn't follow the law of the Lord the next. God nearly destroyed Israel before they got to the promised land his own chosen people! Aside from that however. Let your husband think what he likes, I dont go to church very often and its seriously not something I will commit myself to sunday after sunday. I say this only for one reason.. The teachings of Man is not flawless so there is bound to be mistakes and errors of teaching. God has shown me this through several pastors who I used to rigorously listen to.. people get caught up in their pride or righteousness (or salvation safety) and it comes across in their teachings as if its alright to be proud or self righteous. Who can declare himself righteous before the Lord?? God does not even trust his Angels or see them as spotless according to the Bible (see the book of Job and Jesus words on the statement "good"). My friend, if going to the church is important to you then so be it, go to the church its not a bad thing! But if you and your husband learn from the Bible instead and make a serious effort to keep reading it or listening to an audio Bible everyday it is even better. From your topic it sounds as if he doesn't already. Your husband should not preussure you to do anything (like not going to church) simply if he feels that it is not right. Even he should know that such a thing is evil in God's sight.. read 1 Corinthians 8 to make your point to him because its really a very serious matter. Re-read to make sure you get all the points Paul makes because even though its short it has lots of thought behind it. \ What you and your husband should be doing is coming into agreement about your faith together and praying to God for guidance and wisdom in your decision. Remember that God delights in giving wisdom and will give it generously to all who ask! "If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking." - James 1:5 I hope I didn't come off as a "know-it-all" or self-righteous person. I was just giving my opinion on the matter because you raised a serious one but God is the one who can give you the BEST answers and I think I have been giving you good advice.. hopefully advice that falls in line with HIS. GOD BLESS YOU, I hope you find the courage and solution to your situation! GOD BLESS YOU REAL GOOD~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axxman Posted August 21, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,292 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2008 Instead of challenging your husband's spiritual God-given authority...you should go to him if you have questions and doubts. Its not your place to try and usurp your husbands spiritual authority in the home. If you genuinely have concerns about your husbands spiritual leadership then it is your responsibility, as his mate, to lift him up before God and trust God to guide him. It doesn't sound to me as though your husband is not trying to lead you spiritually...its sounds as if you are refusing to follow your husbands leadership. The bible doesn't allow for women to quit following the leadership of their husbands just because the wife 'thinks' the husband is wrong. "You wives must submit to your husbands' leadership in the same way you submit to the Lord. For a husband is in charge of his wife in the same way Christ is in charge of his body, the church...So you wives must willingly obey your husbands in everything, just as the church obeys Christ...and the wife must see to it that she deeply respects her husband - obeying, praising, and honoring him." (Eph. 5:22-24,33) The Living Bible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 21, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 21, 2008 You have no hope for heaven if you don't make the choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted August 21, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted August 21, 2008 "You wives must submit to your husbands' leadership in the same way you submit to the Lord. For a husband is in charge of his wife in the same way Christ is in charge of his body, the church...So you wives must willingly obey your husbands in everything, just as the church obeys Christ...and the wife must see to it that she deeply respects her husband - obeying, praising, and honoring him." (Eph. 5:22-24,33) The Living Bible This applies to Godly marriages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRaven Posted August 21, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,981 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1964 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I am so dicouraged .My spouse belives we make no desisions ,we are prestined or we are not. That we can not accept christ .I have tried attending church,but he believes all that we have attended are false teachers. His belielfs are so dark and discouraging. If i diagree with him he says i disagree with the bible and do not believe the word of god.Or that i do not have ears to hear. I am a Calvinist, and believe in predestination. But the doctrine you describe, if you describe it accurately, is hypercalvinism and heresy. The Bible teaches that God is sovereign, he knew and planned everything. The Bible also teaches that we make choices and are supposed to petition the King of the Universe and ask Him to change things for us if we need them changed. If man made no choices, them man cannot either be held responsible for sin. Man's choices are determined by his personality, his heart and the condition of his soul, but they are true choices nonetheless. I would not choose something that was not in my nature to choose, which is why the Holy Spirit must open the ears and open the eyes of the sinner. Once this happens, the sinner does choose and it is a heart felt choice, it is a true choice and it is... a choice. You might want to do a full study on the topic and since he's leaning reformed (Calvinist), use resources like reformed.org or ligonier ministries to help you find things to think about. There is a difference between the true doctrine of predestination and the one you describe. Once you find the truth, it can be presented in love. But you do not have to submit to heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthbringer Posted August 21, 2008 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/13/1949 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Welcome to Worthy. The Bible teaches 2 truths. God is absolutely sovereign. And people make decisions for which God holds them responsible and have real consequences. Both are true. There is a mystery in how they work themselves out. I am going to move this to the Doctrinal Issues forum from Worthy Welcome as it will fit better there God is sovereign, But in His severeignty He has put His will in His word, "The Bible", Which states that we have frree will. We are to chose, We are to believe, we are to be doers of the word otherwise we'll limit God's severeignty. There are some things in God's timetable, and they will come to pass, But there are things that'll never happen until we act on the word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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