What the Bible says about the second coming of Jesus

[kross]

OK. You are wrong but OK

He is more than just wrong he has scripture so twisted it would take for ever to get the knot out. WOW!!!, First of the Bible does not teach there will be two 2nd coming moreover Jesus does not say He is taken anyone back to heaven in John 14:1-3 He says that He is going to heaven to make a place for us (that place is New Jerusalem) and it will not come down from earth until after the Millennium, Jesus also says when He returns He will recieve us into Himself that were He is we will be also (Not were He was going to or where He was, but where He is) and where is Jesus going to be when He returns? The earth for the Millennium and that is where we will be as well where Jesus is not where He was going or where He was b4 His return. Finally and I could go on but finally 1st John 3:2 says when Jesus appears we will be like Him. When is His ''glorious appearing''? which is a phrase pretribbers use to separate the supposed ''coming in the clouds'' His actual coming they call the 2nd coming His glorious appearing. So when is His glorious appearing? after the tribulation at His posttrib 2nd coming. When will we be like Christ (or receive our heavenly bodies)? at the rapture. So if we will be like Him when He appears as the scripture says, then we will be raptured at the posttrib 2nd coming.

When a man comes along 2,000 years later and starts saying that Paul got it wrong and that the Bible is mistaken, and also twists scripture so out of whack that it is no longer scripture, it is easier to just let people know that he is wrong.

The real WOW is that there are people who AMEN someone who says Paul got it wrong.

Just to clarify something. I did not Amen on so called mistakes that Paul made. If you read the whole post of Truthbringer, you would've noticed he/she didn't say Paul made a mistake, he/she clearly stated the following: and I quote him

"NOTE, The Bible teaches us that the second coming is in two parts. [A] The coming for the saints The physical coming.

If the rapture is at the Physical coming of Jesus the saints will have to do a U-turn in mid-air to come back with Him.

And Paul made a mistake when he said, "We that are alive shall be caught up in the air" 1 Thessalonions 4: 17.

at the Physical coming of Jesus there is no record of the ressurected saints, so Paul also made a mistake 1 Thess 4: 13--16.

Remember, The Bible writters were inspiered by God. So if they made a mistake, it means that God made the mistake."

So, again I clarify this, Truthbringer DIDN'T say Paul made a mistake, he/she said if it was that the rapture is the second coming then there would've been a mistake, which there isn't.

And you know what, I belive in the pre-trib rapture, but even if it's not like that, I'm still a Blood washed child of the Living God, and whenever He wants to take us away, is up to Him, not up to us to quarrel about, and not respecting other believers views.

OOPs. My bad. Sorry

[Floatingaxe]

Re: OP title: The Rapture is not the Second Coming. The Church is raptured away, and the Church actually comes back with Jesus for His glorious, conquering return to set up His Millennial Kingdom and reign with Him for 1000 years here on Earth.

You are right the rapture is not the 2nd coming the rapture is at the 2nd coming.

Hi, ezekiel! I believe that the Word teaches that there is a definite catching away of the saints before the Second Coming. We aren't meant to endure the wrath of God upon the nations during the Great Tribulation. The Bride is spotless and will not undergo wrath. There is no mention of the Church in Revelation after we read of the trumpet voice saying, "Come up here!" Why? Because she is just not here!

The great tribulation is the wrath of the world on christians (Mat 24:9) followed by GOD's wrath on men not sealed and protected from the plagues.

JESUS and the saints are still in Heaven reigning over the earth for 1,000 years (REV 20:4-6). And very likely through Satans 1,000 years as well. They can't very well come to earth and then have to leave it again when the new earth is created, can they?

Where in the Word does it say the Church suffers the wrath of God??? You are in error there, friend. Also, the Millennial Reign takes place here on Earth. We will be busy reigning and restoring the planet to receive the New Jerusalem.

You would benefit from reading Randy Alcorn's biblically based book, "Heaven"!

[Grace1479]

Something to think about:

War or Rapture

(Rev 19:19-21) When Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation, He will be coming for battle. For those who believe in a post-trib rapture, it would be strange to meet your Lord and Savior just as He's rushing into battle. The idea that war and rapture could occur together is difficult to imagine, especially since they transpire at the same moment.

[Floatingaxe]

Where in the Word does it say the Church suffers the wrath of God??? You are in error there, friend. Also, the Millennial Reign takes place here on Earth. We will be busy reigning and restoring the planet to receive the New Jerusalem.

You would benefit from reading Randy Alcorn's biblically based book, "Heaven"!

I do not see where anyone has said that the church ssuffers God's wrath and yes the Millennium is on earth.

I was responding to this:

The great tribulation is the wrath of the world on christians (Mat 24:9) followed by GOD's wrath on men not sealed and protected from the plagues.

I see now that what was said that Christians will suffer the wrath of the world. I'm afraid that is wrong, for the destruction, despair and death that will be occurring will be the sufferings due to the poured-out wrath of God. Some people will come to Christ, however, and they will suffer for their faith, and be killed, but that is not the Church...it is only those who remain on earth who have accepted Christ as Saviour during this time.

[truthbringer]

OK. You are wrong but OK

I have put what the Bible says, If I'm wrong then God is wrong.

[stevehut]

Why is any of this important? I don't understand...

[truthbringer]

OK. You are wrong but OK

He is more than just wrong he has scripture so twisted it would take for ever to get the knot out. WOW!!!, First of the Bible does not teach there will be two 2nd coming moreover Jesus does not say He is taken anyone back to heaven in John 14:1-3 He says that He is going to heaven to make a place for us (that place is New Jerusalem) and it will not come down from earth until after the Millennium, Jesus also says when He returns He will recieve us into Himself that were He is we will be also (Not were He was going to or where He was, but where He is) and where is Jesus going to be when He returns? The earth for the Millennium and that is where we will be as well where Jesus is not where He was going or where He was b4 His return. Finally and I could go on but finally 1st John 3:2 says when Jesus appears we will be like Him. When is His ''glorious appearing''? which is a phrase pretribbers use to separate the supposed ''coming in the clouds'' His actual coming they call the 2nd coming His glorious appearing. So when is His glorious appearing? after the tribulation at His posttrib 2nd coming. When will we be like Christ (or receive our heavenly bodies)? at the rapture. So if we will be like Him when He appears as the scripture says, then we will be raptured at the posttrib 2nd coming.

[1] To say, the Bible doesn't teach a two part coming is showing ignorence.

[2] John 14: 1-3 doesn't say The new Jeruselem, that is just your own thoughts.

where did Jesus go when He laft the Earth??. My Bible says He went to heaven, not the new Jeruselem.

[3] If the Bible says, When Jesus comes we will be just like Him 1 Jn 3: 2. and A gloriour church Eph 5: 27.

That is what it meant. The church in the tribulation dont fit that discription.

At His physical coming we will be coming with Him, so He cannot be coming for a glorious Church then, because the glorious church will be with him.

[4]Why dont people stick witht the Bible instead of their own opinions, Lets face it, IT IS YOUR OWN OPINION ISN'T IT.

[truthbringer]

It is impossible to have two 2nd comings. The second 2nd coming would be the third coming, but if for the sake of convention and in deference to common usage we call the third coming the second second coming, then we meet ourselves coming and going. So I'm going to go and figure this out. Anyone want to come with me?

[1]The Bible teaches One second coming of Jesus, But in two parts, His coming for the Saints at the preitrib rapture, and His Physical coming.

[2] You are not supose to figure it out, You are supose to read the Bible, Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal truth to you as you read it, The exept it and believe it.

The trouble with most people is their own thought and beliefs.

[truthbringer]

OK. You are wrong but OK

He is more than just wrong he has scripture so twisted it would take for ever to get the knot out. WOW!!!, First of the Bible does not teach there will be two 2nd coming moreover Jesus does not say He is taken anyone back to heaven in John 14:1-3 He says that He is going to heaven to make a place for us (that place is New Jerusalem) and it will not come down from earth until after the Millennium, Jesus also says when He returns He will recieve us into Himself that were He is we will be also (Not were He was going to or where He was, but where He is) and where is Jesus going to be when He returns? The earth for the Millennium and that is where we will be as well where Jesus is not where He was going or where He was b4 His return. Finally and I could go on but finally 1st John 3:2 says when Jesus appears we will be like Him. When is His ''glorious appearing''? which is a phrase pretribbers use to separate the supposed ''coming in the clouds'' His actual coming they call the 2nd coming His glorious appearing. So when is His glorious appearing? after the tribulation at His posttrib 2nd coming. When will we be like Christ (or receive our heavenly bodies)? at the rapture. So if we will be like Him when He appears as the scripture says, then we will be raptured at the posttrib 2nd coming.

When a man comes along 2,000 years later and starts saying that Paul got it wrong and that the Bible is mistaken, and also twists scripture so out of whack that it is no longer scripture, it is easier to just let people know that he is wrong.

The real WOW is that there are people who AMEN someone who says Paul got it wrong.

[1] I didnt say Paul got it wrong, I said if the rapture is after the tribulation then he was wrong.

[2] If You cannot understand what I said no wonder you can't understand the Bible.

[Guest Yacov]

When will the rapture take place? Some believe the pre-tribulation rapture and some believe the mid-trib-or post trib rapture. Who's right

Lets see what God says.

[1] JESUS IS COMING FOR THOSE WHO ARE READY.

Matthew 25: 1--13. These were all Christians, Five were ready and five were backslid. We know they were all Christians because V8 says, The oil in our lamps are gone out. The oil is the Holy Spirit, So they were all Christians once.

When Jesus said in V12, "I know you not", He didn't say "I NEVER knew you", The original text says,

"I didn't recognise you as a Christian" Why, They were backsliden.

Now look at V13, "WATCH" In other words, Be ready, Also note, Jesus said, You dont know when He is coming. If the rapture was at the end of the tribulation people would know when he is coming.

1Corinthians 16: 22, In writting to Believers in relation to the second coming of Jesus, The word "MARANATHA", means the coming of Jesus, , Paul said, "If any one loves not the Lord, let them be cursed, the word "Anathema" means cursed, it is the same as Galations 1: 8--9, "If anyone preach another gospel let them be accursed". So note, Paul said, those that don't love Jesus when He comes, They will be like the people who preach another gospel, CURSED.

Hebrews 9: 29, says, "UNTO THOSE THAT LOOK FOR JESUS, HE WILL APPEAR [The second coming].

NOTE, It doesn't say that Jesus is coming for every Christian, Only those who are ready waiting and watching.

Look at Luke 21: 34-- 36. If you are ready, You'll escape these things,

[2] THE CHRISTIANS WILL BE IN HEAVEN DURING THE TRIBULATION.

Matthew 25:10 Mentions the Marriage, Revelations 19: Tells us that the Mariage is in heaven. So we know that the five virgins that were ready went to heaven while the five unwise stayed, and went through the tribulation along with the unbelievers.

John 14: 1--3. Jesus tells His followers in V2, that He is going to prepare a place IN HEAVEN for them.

In V 3, He says,"I will come again and receieve you to myself, That where I am you'll be also".

when Jesus Physicaly comes again, He wont be taking us to heaven, we will be coming with Him,

zechariah 14: 5. Revelations 17: 14. Revelations 19: 14.

NOTE, The Bible teaches us that the second coming is in two parts. [A] The coming for the saints The physical coming.

If the rapture is at the Physical coming of Jesus the saints will have to do a U-turn in mid-air to come back with Him.

And Paul made a mistake when he said, "We that are alive shall be caught up in the air" 1 Thessalonions 4: 17.

at the Physical coming of Jesus there is no record of the ressurected saints, so Paul also made a mistake 1 Thess 4: 13--16.

Remember, The Bible writters were inspiered by God. So if they made a mistake, it means that God made the mistake.

Also Jesus made a mistake when He said, "I will come again and take you to heaven with Me".

How can we be caught up, be in heaven having the mariage feast and come back with Jesus, all in a twincling of an eye.

There is no record of that at the physical coming of Jesus.

Also, 1 Thessalonians 5: 10. says, "Whether we are dead or alive, we shall live together with Him"

How can you be with Jesus in heaven and go through the tribulation at the same time.

Paul goes on to says "We are not appointed unto wrath" V9. And, "Comfort yourselves" v 11.

If you read 1 Thess 5: 1--11. you will see that it is about missing the tribulation.

THE TRUMPETS

There is a difference between the trump in 1 Corinthians 15: 56, 1 Thessalonians 4: 16. And the trumpets Revelation.

[1]In Revelation there is no Meeting in the air.

[2] There is no ressurection of the dead.

[3] Acording to the original Greek the two aren't the same. 1 Cor 15, & 1 Thess 4. are the last earthly sounding trump that the Church will hear before they are rapturered. and has nothing to do with the trumpets in Revelation.

[4] The Mid- trib saints have gone before the first trumpet in Revelation, Rev 7 & 8. So the "Last trump" cannot be at the physical coming of Jesus.

THE RAPTURE AND 2 THESALONIONS 2: 1--8.

We need to know that the Bible wasn't written in chapter & verse, The translaters put them in for clarification.

so Chapter 2 is the continueation of Ch 1, which is talking about the Physical coming of Jesus and the events that will happen before and at His coming.

First thing we notice is in 2 Thess 2: 1. is "The coming of Jesus an our gathering together unto Him".

When He comes Physicaly we'll come with Him, Not Gather unto Him. As we have already seen.

V3 "FALLING AWAY". There are two truths here. [1] There has already been a falling away from the faith, If the old time Church goers came back they wouldn't recognise some Churches today. They have fallen away from the word, and they have no manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

[2] It doesn't say, "FALLING AWAY FROM THE FAITH". PLEASE NOTE THAT.

Apostasia, Acording to the Greek original text. And I quote. "IT DOES NOT EXACTLY MEAN THAT [APOSTASIA]. THE WORD IS DERIVED FROM [APHISTEMIA] MADE UP OF, [APO] FROM OR AWAY AND [HESTIMI] PLACE].

And the meaning is, "A WITHDRAWING OR DEPARTING".

So we have to put it in its right context. And If you link V3, & V6-7 together, The context is, [The rapture].

AND WHAT HAPPENS BEFORE THE ANTI-CHRIST CAN COME. AND BEFORE JESUS COMES AGAIN.

So lets see what it says.

V3, That day wont come until the Church has been withdrawn and departed and the anti Christ is revealed.

V6, We know what is holding him back. [The Church]

V7, He [The Church] who is holding the anti-Christ back, Will hold him back until he [The Church] is taken out of the way."Raptured".

The one holding the anti Christ back cannot be the Holy Spirit because He will be still here revealing God and salvation to the people on earth.

In relationship to this event,V 14. says, " We obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ".

The word "Glory" means, [The charactor and power of Jesus] When Jesus comes to rapture His Church It will be just like Him 1 John 3: 2.

Jesus is coming back for a glorious Church. Acording to the Greek, the word "Glorious" means A Church doing outstanding miracles and great works of power, And People being just like Jesus.

If the devil couldn't deal with one Jesus, how do you think he can handle millions just like Jesus, he can't for two reasons. [1] We are, and will be to strong and powerful for him

[2] We wont be here, so he wont have to deal with us.

WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN IS WHAT THE BIBLE, AND THE ORIGINAL GREEK SAYS.

YOU CAN TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT.