come out of her my people

[Brad]

Yod I see no scriptural fulfillment to Israel today,

is there nothing future left in the Bible?

Just living in the new covenant "New Heaven"

Yod I ran across this posting and would like your thought or facts concerning this. Here it is.

Are the Jews that live in Israel today the same as the Jews of the Bible?

A common error is man's tendency to form a concept of how prophetical events are going to find fulfillment and what is going to actually transpire, and then ignore any time-element involved in the scripture, choosing instead to wait for things to happen as he thinks they must. This was true with the Jews and it is still true today. As Doug said there is not one word mentioned by Jesus or the Apostle's in the New Testament about any re-creation of the State of Israel, in the literal land again.

One of the great problems with this dispensational view is that there is no rebirth of Israel or rebuilt temple mentioned anywhere in the New Testament. Nor is the supposed regathering of the Jews to their homeland. The real sad thing is most people don't know the so called Jews over in the Middle East are not Jews at all.

Just as a side note here, let me say that those premillennialists today who hold to the viewpoint that so-called Israel

[Guest JDJ]

Foolishness.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Foolishness.

That's a good definition for (preterism)

[Brad]

End time sillyness ! (or is it madness?)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is another great Article by Timothy A. James

Why has the Church, for two thousand years taught that, Christ

[Guest shadow2b]

-QUOTE (yod @ Jun 3 2004, 12:40 AM)

QUOTE 

Yod I see no scriptural fulfillment to Israel today, 

is there nothing future left in the Bible? 

Just living in the new covenant "New Heaven"  

-YEAHHH YOD SO BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY TO OR ABOUT DEAR--OLE-BRAD--

-HE "THINKS"EVERY--SINGLE--SOLITARY--WORD THAT COMES OUT OF HIS

-MOUTH IS DIRECTLY FROM THE HOLY-SPIRIT---OR THE HOLY-SPIRIT IS

-SPEAKING DIRECTLY THRU HIM-----Nope you read it right YOD--NOT a mis-type

- Would I LIE ta yuse YOD??--TRUE--TRUE---Every werd---TRUE--

- :oww: :oww: :oww:

[Guest shadow2b]

-The main beast is the united states but babylon (confussion) is his church.

-ahhhhhhh--yes the first bapmethpencathostical church of confusion of main street

--been there at least once--

[John3;16]

Brad

The Greek word parousia used as a verb is defined as coming or presence, that is the physical aspect of the word, and that meaning is accepted by most scholars, when used in conjunction with Christs return. There is also present participle which is defined as being near, does that describe his second coming?, the holy spirit is near, the kingdom is near, we are made one with Christ, can

[John3;16]

Babylon is not Jerusalem, there is a book that I believe has solid evidence and understanding of end time prophesy, the name of the book is: The Coming World Leader, the Author is David Hocking, here is some execerpts, a beast comes out of the Mediterranean Sea and has seven heads and ten horns. One of its heads recieved a deadly wound and was brought back to life. We believe this sixth head is the one that recievd the fatal blow. It came back to Life as a ten-nation (ten horns) confederacy, making it the seventh head, out of which will come a world dicator.

Chapter 17 introduces us to a woman who sits on the beast with seven heads and ten horns. She is called " the great harlot, " and the name on her forehead is: "Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots and of the Abominations of the Earth. "

In chapter 18 we see the fall of Babylon the Great. It appears this chapter is a detailed account of what is described in the closing verses of chapter 17. Many Bible teachers see the destruction of the woman as a removal of the world religious order, and the destruction of the city called " Babylon the Great " as the end of the political system that controls the entire world. That is difficult to prove. A simple reading of the text suggests that the fall of Babylon the Great is the destruction of the woman; she is Babylon the Great.

The beast is destroyed by the return of Jesus Christ (19:11-21). The beast and false prophet are cast into the lake of fire (19:20) The woman is destroyed by the ten kings (horns) who form the political alliance through which the beast ascends to power.

The woman pictures a false religion that will dominate the world in the tribulation period, whereas the beast symbolizes the world government of the last half of the tribulation period. Both symbols illustrate the past as well as the presant. Past history has demonstrated the awful reality of both systems-religious and political-as the have been corrupted by human depravity and moral degradation. The religious system of the end times will be led by the false prophet (13:11-18) whereas the political system will be led by the beast we know as the antichrist (13:1-10).

The Woman On The Beast (17:1-18)

(1) Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, " Come, I will show you the judgement of the great harlot who sits on many waters, (2) with whom the kings of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fernication. " (3) so he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns, (4) The woman was arrayed in purple and scarle, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her forication. (5) And on her forehead a name was writen:

Mystery, Babylon the Great, The Mother of Harlots and of the Abominations Of the Earth.

(6) And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

(7) But the angel said to me, Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will assend out of the bottomless pit and go into perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are no written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

(9) Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.

(10) There are also seven kings,Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. and when he comes, he must continue a short time.

(11) And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eigth, and is of the seven, and is going into perdition.

(12) And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have recieved no kingdom as yet, but they recieve authority for one hour as kings with the beast.

(13) These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.

(14) These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for he is Lord of lords and king of kings; and those who are with him are called, chosen, and faithful.

(15) And he said to me, " The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

(16) And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hat the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.

(17) For God hath put it into their hearts to fulfill his purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

(18) And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth"

The Defination of the Woman (17:1-6, 15)

The announcement of judgement. When John is invited to see this great harlot who sits on many waters, he is told he will be veiwing her judgement. The description of her as the "great harlot" emphasizes the all-purvasive influence of this woman throughout history and the seriouness of that influence in the eyes of God. This is not to be taken lightly.

Revelation 19:2 is the responce of a great multitude in heaven over the fall of the harlot, Babylon the Great. This praise honors God because " He has judged the great harlot, " avenging the blood of His servants which the harlot has shed throughout history.The authority of the woman. the influence of this herlot is quite extensive; a\she "sits on many waters," representing "peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues" (vv.1,15). Her influence has invaded all nations of the world.

John saw the woman "sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns" (17:3). It was in a desolate place that John viewed this woman on the beast, reminding us that death not life is the environment in which the harlot and the beast thrive. The woman sits on the beast, exercising authority and influence over it. Whatever the woman represents, she has dominated all the great empires of the world and will be prominent in the tribulation as well. Perhaps the most fascinating statement of all concerning her authority and influence is the statement of verse 2: "With whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication." Fornication is sexual immorality. Symbolically, this harlot has used sex and drunkeness to entice and seduce world leaders and the inhabitants of the world. (cf 18:3, 9, 23; 19:2).what a graphic picture of deception, manipulation, and seduction. Throughout history, the story has been repeated. This harlot has affected all nations, and God will judge her for it and destroy her once for all.

The appearance of the woman. It is tempting to relate the appearance of this woman with the lavish wealth of the Roman Catholic church. That view point was the strong opinion of the Reformers, as we might expect. It was also the view of Tertullian,Jerome,Augustine, and most Bible commentators throughtout medieval church history. Protostant Bible schollars have been strongly influenced to identify this woman as the Roman Church. That may be the case / time will tell. However, it is important to see that the woman sits on the beast whose heads represent the empires of past and future world history. The Roman Catholic Church is a part of the problem, but cannot be the only problem in the prophetic puzzle. False religion is found among protostants as well as catholics. False relition has permeated all the cultures of the world and has produced a variety of beliefs and practices incompatible with orthodox christianity. Organized religion has never been a friend to true believers in the One True God and his Messiah, Jesus Christ, Our Lord. Devotion to our God has often been set aside by those who prefer pomp and lavish display. Spiritiual comittment has never been the "bottom line" for those dedicated to power and wealth.

[Guest yod]

Hey Brad....

when was this fulfilled?

Isaiah 66

6

"A voice of uproar from the city, a voice from the temple,

The voice of the LORD who is (18) rendering recompense to His enemies.

7

"Before she travailed, (19) she brought forth;

Before her pain came, (20) she gave birth to a boy.

8

"(21) Who has heard such a thing? Who has seen such things?

Can a land be born in one day?

Can a nation be brought forth all at once?

As soon as Zion travailed, she also brought forth her sons.

9

"Shall I bring to the point of birth and (22) not give delivery?" says the LORD.

"Or shall I who gives delivery shut the womb?" says your God.

Joy in Jerusalem's Future

10

"Be (23) joyful with Jerusalem and rejoice for her, all you who (24) love her;

Be exceedingly (25) glad with her, all you who mourn over her,

11

That you may nurse and (26) be satisfied with her comforting breasts,

That you may suck and be delighted with her (27) bountiful bosom."

12

For thus says the LORD, "Behold, I extend (28) peace to her like a river,

And the (29) glory of the nations like an overflowing stream;

And you will be nursed, you will be (30) carried on the hip and fondled on the knees.

13

"As one whom his mother comforts, so I will (31) comfort you;

And you will be comforted in Jerusalem." 14

Then you will (32) see this, and your (33) heart will be glad,

And your (34) bones will flourish like the new grass;

And the (35) hand of the LORD will be made known to His servants,

But He will be (36) indignant toward His enemies.

15

For behold, the LORD will come in (37) fire

And His (38) chariots like the whirlwind,

To render His anger with fury,

And His rebuke with flames of fire.

16

For the LORD will execute judgment by (39) fire

And by His (40) sword on all flesh,

And those slain by the LORD will be many.

17

"Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the (41) gardens,

Following one in the center,

Who eat (42) swine's flesh, detestable things and mice,

Will (43) come to an end altogether," declares the LORD.

18 "For I know their works and their (44) thoughts; the time is coming to (45) gather all nations and tongues. And they shall come and see My glory.

19 "I will set a (46) sign among them and will send survivors from them to the nations: (47) Tarshish, Put, (48) Lud, Meshech, (49) Tubal and Javan, to the distant (50) coastlands that have neither heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they will (51) declare My glory among the nations.

20 "Then they shall (52) bring all your brethren from all the nations as a grain offering to the LORD, on horses, in chariots, in litters, on mules and on camels, to My (53) holy mountain Jerusalem," says the LORD, "just as the sons of Israel bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the LORD. 21 "I will also take some of them for priests and for Levites," says the LORD.

22

"For just as the new heavens and the new earth

Which I make will endure before Me," declares the LORD,

"So your offspring and your name will endure.

23

"And it shall be from new moon to new moon

And from sabbath to sabbath,

All mankind will come to bow down before Me," says the LORD.

24

"Then they will go forth and look

On the corpses of the men

Who have transgressed against Me.

For their worm will not die

And their fire will not be quenched;

And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind."

[Brad]

It was all fulfilled back when they rode in chariots.