come out of her my people

[OneAccord]

In Israel they have a peculiar law which says what their government says is a Jew. I quote this from Funk and wagnall

[tsth]

You might also consider doing an indepth study of "Judah". I was surprised to find some of the original meanings of the word, especially out of the "Strongest Strong's Concordanced".

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest yod]

It was all fulfilled back when they rode in chariots.

Brad,

in the history of the Earth there has only been once when a nation was born in a day and that was May 15th, 1948

And we have yet to see all mankind bow and worship the Lord....much less from Sabbath to Sabbath, new moon to new moon.

This one verse blasts your entire theology right out of the water. It seems so obvious that it would be pointless to argue with you about "chariots".

And, oh yeah, only one time in history have the gentiles brought the jews back to Israel....and we are living in that day.

I have asked several times in the past what exactly is a Jew, as it is clearly a very polluted bloodline. It is a race or a religion?

Polluted? Are you trying to be offensive?

Jesus was born of that bloodline...call it polluted if you wish.

The idea of gentiles being adopted into the faith as children of God is a good picture of being jewish. If someone is born into a hebrew family they are jewish...but if someone submits to conversion then they are just as equally jewish. Does this make them polluted? If so, then Jesus was polluted by Rahab the prostitute and Ruth the Moabitess

Regarding Brad's mention of how the percentages of Ashkenazi rose in relation to Sephardic jews in the middle ages that was most likely a result of the Spanish Inquisition. Not only did many of the Sephardic jews die or convert to Catholicism (for fear of death) many more came to America to escape Europe. Remember, those figures were for jews in Europe....not the world.

How do we know if those jews in Israel are actual physical descendants of Israel? C'mon....common sense should be all you need. Who would want the kind of persecution that the world has put the jews through?

I read a commentary by a rabbi once who said that without the persecution from the church, jews would have assimilated into the nations where they went...but they were not allowed to. So what we (gentiles & christians) meant for harm, God has meant for their good....to keep them.

Even this thread is a good example of how they are envied to the point of persecution. EVERYONE wants to be the "Chosen People" without really considering what that entails.

We are all chosen for a purpose...some are vessels of honor and some are vessels of wrath. The jewish people were chosen for a specific purpose also...it is in Deuteronomy 7

6 "For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth.

7 " The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples,

8 but because the LORD loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the LORD brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

9 "Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

10 but repays those who hate Him to their faces, to destroy them; He will not delay with him who hates Him, He will repay him to his face.

Anyone who doesn't understand this, does not understand God's love or His faithfulness....and I feel sorry for them.

[Brad]

Yod I take it then that all Christian gentiles are also Jews or Israeli because we are in Christ.

The True Israel of God.

What is the essence of being a true Israelite? It is not the literal fleshly descent from Abraham, but faith in God.

[Guest yod]

It seems like we are going in circles here, Brad. I answer your suppositions and then you just post them again as if it wasnt' addressed already.

I will sum it up once more....

The "Israel of God" existed before Jesus. They were the jews who had the faith of Abraham....the rest were just "Israel"

The name "jew" came about after the 10 northern tribes were carried away by Shalmanessar of Assyria. It was a shortened version of the word "Judeans" but it included all the tribes. In other words, not every member of all the 10 tribes lived in the north. A person from the tribe of Gad might be called a Judean if he lived in Jerusalem for example.

Thus, the term "jew" was born. This word simply refers to the physical descendants of Jacob/Israel....or to those who join themselves to them by conversion. This is why circumcision was such a hot topic among the early church. Did gentiles have to be converted to being jews to be of the tribes of Israel?

The decision was that God didn't want them to be. They were saved while being "of the nations" and therefore they should remain as gentiles. It is clear that Acts 15 should be all the proof one would need to see that gentiles DO NOT become jews unless they wish to be circumcised...but that is trying to perfect in the flesh what God has redeemed by His Spirit!

Romans 2:29 should be read in the context of the next sentences because the bible was not separated into chapter and verse by St Jerome until a century after the book of Romans was written. If you look at it in this context, you will see that being a "true jew" means that you were given the covenant of circumcision and entrusted with the oracles of God. What gentile can make that claim?

So....a "true jew" is one who has the faith of Abraham and these "True JEWS" make up the "Israel of God" that gentiles are adopted into. We are equal citizens with no separation or difference in position in the Lord....but "we" the church are not Israel and we are not jews.

I have no problem with blessing my jewish brothers or seeing them blessed...because I understand that it is ultimately for my blessing that this happens.

However, I see the church acting like the older brother in the parable of the Prodigal son. We are jealous that our Father's heart cries for our jewish brother. Instead of blessing our Father by sharing His burden, we are complaining that we aren't the sole object of His attention.

I can see how these things would be hard to understand if a person was apart of Abraham

[Guest shadow2b]

- But I cannot understand how these things became so hard to understand to God

[Brad]

Yod, the Jewish brothers that you are referring to are they Christian brothers or not. This is what I'm having a hard time with trying to understand you and others. Because from the way I've heard things presented is that they are not believers in Christ as of yet, but God will saved them anyway and then they will be Christians.

please answer as simply as possible so that what you have said already will be more clear.

[Brad]

- But I cannot understand how these things became so hard to understand to God

[Guest shadow2b]

-Where does it said Jesus will return physically Chapter and verse. Why would the scriptures mention 70 AD when it was writing before 70 AD about something no man knew the hour or day it would happen?

-Matthew 24

1  And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2  And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

-AS PLAINLY STATED BY JESUS-YESHUA--NOT ONE STONE WAS LEFT ATOP

-ANOTHER--BUT NO!!-NOWHERE IS THE DATE 70AD mentioned--

-YOUR ESCHATOLOGY IS SO FLAWED-IT IS UNBELIEVABLE---WHICH IT IS!!!

-UNBELIEVABLE!!!!--SHOW ME THE EXACT SCTRIPTURE THAT MENTIONS 70AD

-INSTEAD OF REFUSING TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS??

3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

-{WHAT SHALL BE THE {SIGN}OF THY COMING??}

-BRAD----"IF" THERE WILL BE A {SIGN?}OF THE RETURN OF JESUS-YESHUA-

-SURELY IT IS PLAINLY STATED HIS COMING WILL BE SEEN--CAN YOU

-UNDERSTAND THE SIMPLICITY OF THIS QUESTION??

-{WHAT SHALL BE THE SIGN OF THY COMING??}A VISIBLE--PLAINLY SEEN--

-AN UNDENIABLE--BEHOLDING OF THE VISIBLE RETURN OF JESUS-YESHUA---

-A RETURN IN A CLOUD WITH POWER & GREAT GLORY--

-LUKE.21.20.thru.28-----

-"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.  How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

-BRAD--THIS EVENT DID OCCUR IN 70AD-BUT THE #70AD DOES-NOT APPEAR

-IN SCRIPTURE---PERIOD--

"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.  Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

-THE ABOVE DESCRIBED EVENTS HAVE--NOT-

-NYET--NON---OCCURED YET-----

-HIS--PHYSICAL--VISIBLE-{AT THAT TIME!!}WILL BE SEEN BY ALL THE WORLD!!!

-AT THAT TIME THEY WILL {"SEE"}THE SON OF MAN COMING {IN--A-CLOUD}

-WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY---

-UNLESS YOU HAVE "SEEN"HIM COMING IN A CLOUD--THIS EVENT OF

-HIS RETURN-HAS NOT OCCURED YET-!!!!!!!--

-NOR HAVE I "SEEN"JESUS-YESHUA-VISIBLY--RETURN TO THIS EARTH--YETT!

If things did happen in 70 AD to fulfill scripture are you not taking away from the things written in Rev. by dening it and then adding to it with futuristic views?

-BRAD---I HAVE ADDED NOTHING--NOR HAVE I

-SUBTRACTED FROM THE -SCRIPTURES  THAT ARE  PLAINLY QUOTED---

-SHOW ME ONE WORD I ADDED TO--OR SUBTRACTED FROM GOD'S WORD

-THE DIFFERENCE IN CORRECTLY

-UNDERSTANDING SCRIPTURE BETWEEN YOU & ME

-IS ----YOU BELIEVE OR THINK JESUS{INVISIBLY}RETURNED TO EARTH IN

-70AD--YOU TEACH THIS{INVISIBLE-RETURN} CONCEPT DON'T YOU????

-YET NOWHERE DO THE WORDS {INVISIBLE--RETURN}APPEAR IN SCRIPTURE---

-YOU {ADD}THESE WORDS --THIS CONCEPT TO THE SCRIPTURES & YOUR

-TEACHINGS RIGHT??NOW--WHO--ADDS WHAT TO THE SCRIPTURE??NOT I-----

-THE ONLY RETURN MENTIONED BY JESUS-

-YESHUA IS ONE THAT IS PLAINLY-EASILY-"SEEN"

-VISIBLE--CLEAR--UNDENIABLE-BY ANYONE---A-VISIBLE{SEEN}BY ALL RETURN-

-UNDERSTAND??-          

[Brad]

Luke 17

23Men will tell you, 'There he is!' or 'Here he is!' Do not go running off after them. 24For the Son of Man in his day[1] will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. 25But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

just remember this Shadow2b if there seems to be a physical manifestion of Jesus do not believe it for He shall be seen spiritually as the lighning which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. just like when God came in judgment in the OT.

I know you have read other postings on this topic like every eye shall see Him or in like Manner so why bother. :upsided: