Worldly concerns

[Floatingaxe]

So, from what I am reading here, all the great careers in leadership and politics are to be held only by unbelievers? Our nations and corporations are led by spiritual dead men?

No--God elevates His people into places of authority. He has done it all through Scripture. Look at Moses, David, the shepherd boy, Esther the beautiful Israeli queen, Nehemiah, the cupbearer to the king....alongside countless ordinary people placed in positions of great authority.

There are many in places of authority who are desperate to hear the message of Jesus Christ! God sends his servants there to rub shoulders with them to influence them for Christ. We have many Christian MP's in our government. Glad they are there!

http://www.nhop.ca/pages/home.php

http://www.ihop.org/

Actually, I already said that

OK, then why are there accusations flying about? I'm confused by the turn of this thread.

[Guest man]

Why i am on a sight dedicated to the gospel is to help people like you get it right.

What would you say to an individual who says we should sell all our possessions and give to the poor, and then claim that he himself would not give money to a homeless person?

What would you say to an individual who says he believes in interventions, and then claims that he would not say anything to save a child from a beating?

What about an individual who claims that "All of my posts are about feeding the hungry, housing the homeless and loving people..." , when they clearly are not? Wouldn't that person be a liar?

And then to hear that same person say, "You can feed the hungry, house the homeless and clothe the naked, but if it is not saving a soul, then it is of no importance."

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There's more, but I think you get the idea. If not, just ask and I could probably throw some other stuff up here.

What does one say to an individual who says things like that? One who claims to be a teacher of the Word, and then says things that go against the Word. How is one supposed to know whether he's speaking from the Word or from his own twisted mind?

I myself feel sorry for this individual, because it is obvious that he is blind and confused and doesn't know from one minute to the next what is going to come out of his mouth.

What would you say to this individual?

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Press Forward]

Kross reminds me of a old joke. Something like this.

A guy was in a flood on top of his house..and asked God to save him...a boat of firefighters came along and told him to get in and he said no...God will save me...then helicopter came along and he told them he didn't need help.... God was going to save him....then supernaturally a hippo came along and spoke to him and said get on my back and I will take you to safety...and he still insisted No...God will save me...

Then the water rose and he died...and when he stood in front of the throne..he asks...God y didn't you save me...and God reply ...I tried..I sent a boat...a helicopter..and even a hippo...

[Guest shiloh357]

I often take some heat in these posts because I do not believe in the power of government over GOD. I see the plight of the world and I know that only GOD can make the changes we want to see.

There is no place in all of the teaching and scriptures that tells us Christians should be all wrapped up in the concerns of the world. We are supposed to be singularly focussed on the spread of the gospel and the saving of souls. What good we do, we are to do for the honor of GOD and the glory of JESUS CHRIST.

I come here to try to undo decades of bad teaching and wrong ideas of what we are supposed to be in the world. Most importantly, to undo the teaching that sitting on the couch and praying will not get it done when this is the most important thing we can do, take our hands off and let GOD have it.

For God so Loved the World....Jesus defeated Satan on the cross with Love...of course the World is cursed..thanks to darkness...and we know the end of the story..in the mean time...Jesus wants to see us display his love and obediance and faithfulness thru light...this isn't a big game of tag your saved like many want to believe...everybody is tested everyday ...your attitude, behavior, and actions...are they godly or ungodly...Godly loving or satan hateful...

Love always protects...you better be concerned about the world...I want my family in a safe, Godly loving environment....and it is not easy because of people like you...if your not striving for that and don't care...then the enemy sneaks in and brings about wickedness and destruction...

As a child of God, Jesus is suppose to be within us...we are suppose to be wheat amongs weeds...light amongst darkness...I disagree with you totally...I think Children of Jesus should be striving for positions of authority....whether Government, Corporations, Entertainment, etc. .and proclaiming and living the Love of Jesus...And instill his way into this world...and not just talk it...but live it...

I never saw JESUS doing that in the scriptures. I guess i will have to go back and look. Seems to me HE told us to seek the position of a servant, not authority.

I feel sorry for you. You think you can do better than GOD. Have at it.

Actually Jesus Himself was in a position of authority. Jesus, Himself was a Rabbi. He was a public Torah teacher which is why He was allowed to teach as He did. He had disciples and He placed them in positions of Authority.

The New Testament teaches us to to engage our culture. We are not to be swept up in the ungodliness of our culture, but are still in this world and we have to engage the world and those in it. The other option is to become reclusive and go live in the desert or something.

Sorry, but that is not true. JESUS was called by the Religious Authorities a man with no education and no papers and it was said that HE had no authority to teach. I am not gong to look up the scripture at this time.

That was because Jesus was a Gallilean Rabbi, who were looked down upon by the Rabbis trained in South in the Jerusalem schools. That fact was that Jesus was a Torah teacher and was respected as a Rabbi. He would not have been allowed to teach in the temple.

They were simply discrediting Jesus and downplaying his qualifications. I am rather surprised that Christian would actually accept as factual the critique of Jesus by His enemies who known to consistently spread lies about Him and even hired false witnesses to lie about Him at His trial. Try coming up with something more credible and biblical.

I am inclined not to believe what you have said about JESUS. HIS ministry was not from men. HIS authority was not from the system of men. All of what HE did was not of men. We will not continue this aspect of the conversation because we will never agree on this point.

Peace

Sorry, but you are simply historically incorrect. Why do you think they called Jesus a Rabbi? I did not say Jesus' ministry was from men. The fact is that Jesus was a man of His times and lived within a Jewish framework. He spoke the language, ate the food and lived as a Jew, like it or not.

Like I said, I am surprised that a "Christian" would actually side with Jesus' enemies in order to prove a futile and incorrect point. They were liars and you choose to believe their lies in order to protect your pride just because you are not "inclined" to admit that you might be wrong.

The fact is you are not the final word on what constitutes "worldly matters." Are called to engage the world and the culture. We are called love and care for the people in it. If that constitutes being too "worldly" for you, then just stay out of the ministry and let people those who know what their doing and are truly called, carry on with the work.

[Guest shiloh357]

What i think is sharing the gospel and engaging the parents will ultimately do the child a world of good better than having the parents thrown in jail and the child placed in a system that may not do him very good.

Why is it that you feel talking and sharing the gospel is so bad and detramental to the child?

There's nothing wrong with sharing the gospel, but shouldn't the welfare of the child be your main concern?

Does every person you share the gospel with fall on their knees in repentance? What makes you so sure the parents of an abused child will?

If you are a citizen of this world, your main concern will be for the things of this world. I am not. I am a citizen of the kingdom of GOD, my first concern is for the spread of the gospel and the saving of souls.

At some point I would call the authorities after all other means had failed. I have faith it would not come to that.

That is irresponsible. If your heart was really for the things of the Kingdom, then your heart would be for people themselves. Having a heart for the Kingdom of God means more than just viewing people as objects you can preach at.

If your heart is really in tune with God's then your primary concern would be for the child since the child is God's creation.

The Kingdom is full people who love to hear themselves talk, but who don't really care about the people they are supposedly called to preach to. They like having audience to stroke their ego, but at the end of the day, all they care about is "preaching" and have little interest in genuine ministry.

SHi,

You really need to read everything that was said instead of taking this out of context. Just as JESUS loved by teaching and sharing and revealing GOD to the people, that is the only way we will ever make a difference. Eternal things still are what matter most.

It would not appear that you have a very good grasp of what has eternal value. Until you love the people you are preaching to, your "preaching" will not have any eternal value at all. Jesus didn't preach nearly has much as he met people's needs.

We have enough people running their mouths. What the Kingdom of God needs are people who are willing to get their hands dirty and actually do those things that are of eternal value. Anyone can preach. Loving the people takes a level of commitment that goes beyond what many so called "preachers" want to be involved with.

It would appear to me you do not understand me or what i say. Why would anyone try to save souls if it is not out of love? Why would anyone put eternal things first if it is not out of love for the souls of people? All of my posts are about feeding the hungry, housing the homeless and loving people where they are with the intent of saving souls and growing the kingdom. In so doing, effecting social change.

JESUS was a proponent of social change, not political change.

No, Jesus was not proponent of social change. He was a proponent of spiritual transformation. He came to be the Savior of the world, not enact social change.

However, there is nothing in the Bible that teaches against Christians being involved in the political system. You smear such involvemet as if it is worldy, when in fact, you have NO biblical basis for doing so. Christians live and work and in every facet of our society because there are people in every facet of society that need Jesus and He has His servants everywhere in the world, even the places you think you are too good or to spiritual to touch. If there is any place we NEED Christian involvement and influence it is in the politcal arena. Any reasonable person can see that.

[kross]

What i think is sharing the gospel and engaging the parents will ultimately do the child a world of good better than having the parents thrown in jail and the child placed in a system that may not do him very good.

Why is it that you feel talking and sharing the gospel is so bad and detramental to the child?

There's nothing wrong with sharing the gospel, but shouldn't the welfare of the child be your main concern?

Does every person you share the gospel with fall on their knees in repentance? What makes you so sure the parents of an abused child will?

If you are a citizen of this world, your main concern will be for the things of this world. I am not. I am a citizen of the kingdom of GOD, my first concern is for the spread of the gospel and the saving of souls.

At some point I would call the authorities after all other means had failed. I have faith it would not come to that.

I'm having a real problem understand the logic of this statement in contrast to the statement you just made.

At one point, you are telling us that we shouldn't be concerning ourselves with things of this world. Then you tell us that you feed the hungry and house the homeless. Are they not things of this world, or are they just more important than the hypothetical child that is being abused by his parents??

I wish I could bring all of what I said into one post so you could get it.

Individualas are our concern. Changing social order, is our concern. Using the worlds weapons and government and laws to do it, is not our calling. We are called to spread the gospel and be the instrument of soul saving. We are called to pray for our leaders. That is all the Christian is called to as far as government. We should be involved with the leadership of our country, not for the purpose of using that to subjugate those who do not hold our views. We should do so for the sole purpose of preacdhing the BIBLE to the people and doing the good work that these positions can do. What they can not do is, in any way, mandate moral behavior.

Is that clear enough? If you can not follow that, I am sorry. If you just don't get it, I am sorry.

If you take a small post out of the context of a whole discussion, you may not understand.

[kross]

What i think is sharing the gospel and engaging the parents will ultimately do the child a world of good better than having the parents thrown in jail and the child placed in a system that may not do him very good.

Why is it that you feel talking and sharing the gospel is so bad and detramental to the child?

There's nothing wrong with sharing the gospel, but shouldn't the welfare of the child be your main concern?

Does every person you share the gospel with fall on their knees in repentance? What makes you so sure the parents of an abused child will?

If you are a citizen of this world, your main concern will be for the things of this world. I am not. I am a citizen of the kingdom of GOD, my first concern is for the spread of the gospel and the saving of souls.

At some point I would call the authorities after all other means had failed. I have faith it would not come to that.

That is irresponsible. If your heart was really for the things of the Kingdom, then your heart would be for people themselves. Having a heart for the Kingdom of God means more than just viewing people as objects you can preach at.

If your heart is really in tune with God's then your primary concern would be for the child since the child is God's creation.

The Kingdom is full people who love to hear themselves talk, but who don't really care about the people they are supposedly called to preach to. They like having audience to stroke their ego, but at the end of the day, all they care about is "preaching" and have little interest in genuine ministry.

SHi,

You really need to read everything that was said instead of taking this out of context. Just as JESUS loved by teaching and sharing and revealing GOD to the people, that is the only way we will ever make a difference. Eternal things still are what matter most.

It would not appear that you have a very good grasp of what has eternal value. Until you love the people you are preaching to, your "preaching" will not have any eternal value at all. Jesus didn't preach nearly has much as he met people's needs.

We have enough people running their mouths. What the Kingdom of God needs are people who are willing to get their hands dirty and actually do those things that are of eternal value. Anyone can preach. Loving the people takes a level of commitment that goes beyond what many so called "preachers" want to be involved with.

It would appear to me you do not understand me or what i say. Why would anyone try to save souls if it is not out of love? Why would anyone put eternal things first if it is not out of love for the souls of people? All of my posts are about feeding the hungry, housing the homeless and loving people where they are with the intent of saving souls and growing the kingdom. In so doing, effecting social change.

JESUS was a proponent of social change, not political change.

No, Jesus was not proponent of social change. He was a proponent of spiritual transformation. He came to be the Savior of the world, not enact social change.

However, there is nothing in the Bible that teaches against Christians being involved in the political system. You smear such involvemet as if it is worldy, when in fact, you have NO biblical basis for doing so. Christians live and work and in every facet of our society because there are people in every facet of society that need Jesus and He has His servants everywhere in the world, even the places you think you are too good or to spiritual to touch. If there is any place we NEED Christian involvement and influence it is in the politcal arena. Any reasonable person can see that.

Fine.

Ignor all the places i said Christians should be involved in the leadership of our country. Ignor all the places where I said we need to be out saving souls and teaching the good news. Ignor all of what has been posted and just say that I have maligned Christian leaders.

Then look at those you call Christian Politicians and tell me what they are doing that JESUS said to do. What effect are they having? Are things getting better? Is not the promise of GOD that if HIS people do what is right HE will honor that and fix things? If things are not getting fixed, then is it that GOD is not able or is not holding up HIS end of the promise? Or is it that we have chosen the weapons of this world to fight a spiritual battle? You figure it out.

[kross]

If you are a citizen of this world, your main concern will be for the things of this world. I am not. I am a citizen of the kingdom of GOD, my first concern is for the spread of the gospel and the saving of souls.

At some point I would call the authorities after all other means had failed. I have faith it would not come to that.

Meanwhile, you are making sure that the child involved suffers more and more abuse while you coddle his parents and vacillate as to what you should do. "After all other means had failed" means the child in question underwent weeks, months, perhaps years of more sexual or physical abuse at the hands of their parents while you try to talk them into being good and rationalize your actions. That hardly does the child any good, and you are not truly concerned with the child's welfare if that is your course of action. If the child is being abused, you remove the child from the situation, and correct the situation before the child goes back into that environment. That is the loving, caring, prudent and logical thing to do, not just blunder along hoping that perhaps the parents will straighten up and fly right or have a change of heart. Thank goodness you do not work for Protective Services.

You claim to be here to spread the truth and help us all to get things "right," but you do not care about abused children, and you do not care about unborn children, you have said so plainly on both accounts. Your version of "right" would seem to leave a great deal of collateral damage in it's meandering wake.

And you believe that simple verbal intervention is not enough. That GOD will not honor the effort and step in, That your authorities are better equipped than GOD.

You assume that GOD will do nothing. You assume that GOD will just continue to let the child be abused and yet you lay it on me. Why are you not laying that on GOD? After all, HE could have put an end to it long before I came around. HE could have never let it start. So who is the more guilty party? Surely, if you are going to critisize me for putting too much faith in GOD, you have to hold HIM accountable for not being worthy of that faith.

Now, this is all a hypothetical situation. You believe that my faith is not as valuable as your police. You believe that I should put more trust in a broken system than in a pefect GOD. Your basic faith is that GOD will not work. My basic faith is that GOD will work.

I am not double minded in this. I am singularly committed to trusting GOD more then man. You can throw stones and my faith all you want and i will throw stones at your lack of it. When we stand before GOD, we will know for sure.

Peace

[Mom2Many]

What i think is sharing the gospel and engaging the parents will ultimately do the child a world of good better than having the parents thrown in jail and the child placed in a system that may not do him very good.

Why is it that you feel talking and sharing the gospel is so bad and detramental to the child?

There's nothing wrong with sharing the gospel, but shouldn't the welfare of the child be your main concern?

Does every person you share the gospel with fall on their knees in repentance? What makes you so sure the parents of an abused child will?

If you are a citizen of this world, your main concern will be for the things of this world. I am not. I am a citizen of the kingdom of GOD, my first concern is for the spread of the gospel and the saving of souls.

At some point I would call the authorities after all other means had failed. I have faith it would not come to that.

I'm having a real problem understand the logic of this statement in contrast to the statement you just made.

At one point, you are telling us that we shouldn't be concerning ourselves with things of this world. Then you tell us that you feed the hungry and house the homeless. Are they not things of this world, or are they just more important than the hypothetical child that is being abused by his parents??

I wish I could bring all of what I said into one post so you could get it.

Individualas are our concern. Changing social order, is our concern. Using the worlds weapons and government and laws to do it, is not our calling. We are called to spread the gospel and be the instrument of soul saving. We are called to pray for our leaders. That is all the Christian is called to as far as government. We should be involved with the leadership of our country, not for the purpose of using that to subjugate those who do not hold our views. We should do so for the sole purpose of preacdhing the BIBLE to the people and doing the good work that these positions can do. What they can not do is, in any way, mandate moral behavior.

Is that clear enough? If you can not follow that, I am sorry. If you just don't get it, I am sorry.

If you take a small post out of the context of a whole discussion, you may not understand.

I believe it's been pointed out by more than just me how much you contridict yourself Kross. We have all pointed out different statements that you make that continually change and if you truely believe what you say you believe, there should be no contridictions, no changing or swaying on that belief. Please, don't insult my intelligiance, I know a contriction when I see one.

Furthermore, I believe it's God's place to tell us where we're called to serve Him. Not man and you don't have any foresight as to where God is going to call us to serve as Christian's whether be in Government or other places.

[Guest man]

And you believe that simple verbal intervention is not enough. That GOD will not honor the effort and step in, That your authorities are better equipped than GOD.

Why did God have armies in the past and why does He still have them today?

Why are you not laying that on GOD? After all, HE could have put an end to it long before I came around. HE could have never let it start. So who is the more guilty party?

So instead of reporting the abuse to the authorities, you would rather lay the blame on God. It's His fault that the child is being abused, because He could have stopped it at any time.

Now, this is all a hypothetical situation. You believe that my faith is not as valuable as your police. You believe that I should put more trust in a broken system than in a pefect GOD. Your basic faith is that GOD will not work. My basic faith is that GOD will work.

Yes, this is a hypothetical situation, but did you ever think that maybe God put you in that location for the soul purpose of calling the authorities and saving that child?