kross Posted October 18, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 I come here to try to undo decades of bad teaching and wrong ideas of what we are supposed to be in the world. Well thank goodness that you came along to fix us all. Personally I find your post somewhat offensive but maybe I'm misunderstanding you. His message has merit, but the delivery of it needs a great deal of work. Do you treat your own flock the way you treat people here Kross? Last time I checked, you are supposed to treat your Christian brothers and sisters with love and respect, not contempt and arrogance. Any Christian brothers and sisters, not just the ones in your own church. I hope you treat them better than you treat us. Trust me, though you read that into what I write, I just write. I say what I say. There is no emotion. People read that into what is written. When I speak and teach people, I am smiling and laughing and telling it the way it is. When i write in these post, I just put out a fact. I do not like to read long posts and I do not make long posts. Sorry if there seems to be a feeling of arrogance, but I have to look at your post just to know how to spell arrogance. I am a very simple man with a great burden for the work of the kingdom. But I know what I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted October 18, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 Which, by the way, is the example JESUS gave us. Again, I read my Bible and I do not see JESUS turning people over to the authorities. I do not see HIM stopping children from being sacrificed in the temples, I do not see the example you are talking about. All you have to do read the Word to find the examples you're looking for. Didn't Christ stop a woman from being stoned to death? How many demons did He cast out? He healed 10 lepers, yet only 1 gave thanks. How many lives did He save through His healings? How many more lives did He save as a result of giving up His? If you can't find examples, you ain't looking. Could you give me scriptures? James 4 17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. I am sorry, these are not examples of going to the authorities and the government to stop something, these are JESUS doing what JESUS showed us to do. How does that equate to going to the government and passing laws? This seems to be going to the people and changing hearts. Which is what I have been saying from the get go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Which, by the way, is the example JESUS gave us. Again, I read my Bible and I do not see JESUS turning people over to the authorities. I do not see HIM stopping children from being sacrificed in the temples, I do not see the example you are talking about. All you have to do read the Word to find the examples you're looking for. Didn't Christ stop a woman from being stoned to death? How many demons did He cast out? He healed 10 lepers, yet only 1 gave thanks. How many lives did He save through His healings? How many more lives did He save as a result of giving up His? If you can't find examples, you ain't looking. Could you give me scriptures? James 4 17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. I am sorry, these are not examples of going to the authorities and the government to stop something, these are JESUS doing what JESUS showed us to do. How does that equate to going to the government and passing laws? This seems to be going to the people and changing hearts. Which is what I have been saying from the get go. So you don't believe calling the authorities to save a child from being abused is a good thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted October 18, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 I often take some heat in these posts because I do not believe in the power of government over GOD. I see the plight of the world and I know that only GOD can make the changes we want to see. There is no place in all of the teaching and scriptures that tells us Christians should be all wrapped up in the concerns of the world. We are supposed to be singularly focussed on the spread of the gospel and the saving of souls. What good we do, we are to do for the honor of GOD and the glory of JESUS CHRIST. I come here to try to undo decades of bad teaching and wrong ideas of what we are supposed to be in the world. Most importantly, to undo the teaching that sitting on the couch and praying will not get it done when this is the most important thing we can do, take our hands off and let GOD have it. For God so Loved the World....Jesus defeated Satan on the cross with Love...of course the World is cursed..thanks to darkness...and we know the end of the story..in the mean time...Jesus wants to see us display his love and obediance and faithfulness thru light...this isn't a big game of tag your saved like many want to believe...everybody is tested everyday ...your attitude, behavior, and actions...are they godly or ungodly...Godly loving or satan hateful... Love always protects...you better be concerned about the world...I want my family in a safe, Godly loving environment....and it is not easy because of people like you...if your not striving for that and don't care...then the enemy sneaks in and brings about wickedness and destruction... As a child of God, Jesus is suppose to be within us...we are suppose to be wheat amongs weeds...light amongst darkness...I disagree with you totally...I think Children of Jesus should be striving for positions of authority....whether Government, Corporations, Entertainment, etc. .and proclaiming and living the Love of Jesus...And instill his way into this world...and not just talk it...but live it... Amen!! I posted this in my other thread, but I'll post it here just for the sake of other readers. To not get involved with the evilness and wickedness of this world is a complete disservice to Jesus. Jesus uses us and works through us all the time. What you are asking us to do here Kross is turn a blind eye and ignore the issues that need work, the work God has called many of us to do. We can't just ignore the problems and evilness, throw our hands up and say it's all yours God. There are too many people out there with hardened hearts (part of God's plan). The world that we live in would absolutely crumble. I too want my children to live in a safe, Godly environment and if we sit back and do nothing that will never happen. I'm not well schooled in my Bible verses, but I do know that Jesus is very protective of children. He speaks out about anyone harming them or anyone allowing harm to come to them. I think he's going to be very displeased with the people of the world who are too involved with themselves to worry about helping children. It would seem from your posts that spreading the gospel and praying is equivelent to "doing nothing". I do not agree with you, I think that it is everything, and the only thing. If you feel you can insure a safe future for your family in your own power and with the help of the government, do that. It is not what I would be trusting in, but you are welcome to live as you see fit. I did not say that praying or spreading the Gospel weren't powerful things and I never said they were doing nothing. But I do believe God expects more out of his Servants. But here's a question for you. If you know the child living next door to you is being abused by his parents', are you going to get involved and call the authorities, do what needs to be done to save that child's life or are you going to sit and pray that the authorities show up and save that child's life?? Are you going to pray for the parent's that they have a change of heart. And if your prayer isn't answered and that child dies as a result of abuse, something that you could have stepped in and helped, do you not think you are going to be held accountible for turning a blind eye? God works through us Kross, he doesn't expect us to only pray, he wants prayers and faith and he wants us to stand up for what's right. Jesus did and that's the example I'll take. Actually, I would go and talk with the parents. Share the gospel and pray. Which, by the way, is the example JESUS gave us. Again, I read my Bible and I do not see JESUS turning people over to the authorities. I do not see HIM stopping children from being sacrificed in the temples, I do not see the example you are talking about. Could you give me scriptures? Come on now Kross, am I to believe a Pastor would use my weakness against me to prove I'm wrong?? Because your a Pastor and are well schooled in Bible Verses doesn't mean you are 100% right. And for what it's worth, I'm no fool, Jesus was the Authorities. He wouldn't have had to turn anyone in, he would have stood up and done what was right for the sake of the child's life and you and I and pretty much anyone else who believes in Jesus knows that. One person gets mad at me for condescending and another gets mad at me because i do not condescend. How would I know you do not have that knowledge, and i am sorry if it seems I am being unfair. JESUS never established HIMSELF as an "authority" on Earth. (Meaning HE had no Earthly kingdom) In the context of the post, JESUS did not go to the majestrates or the judges to influence the laws of the time. JESUS went to the people to change the hearts and minds of a society that was far from the truth of GOD. JESUS talked to those who were going to stone the woman. Which equates to the idea of going to talk to the parent that would beat a child. That is the example we have from JESUS on how to do HIS work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted October 18, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 Which, by the way, is the example JESUS gave us. Again, I read my Bible and I do not see JESUS turning people over to the authorities. I do not see HIM stopping children from being sacrificed in the temples, I do not see the example you are talking about. All you have to do read the Word to find the examples you're looking for. Didn't Christ stop a woman from being stoned to death? How many demons did He cast out? He healed 10 lepers, yet only 1 gave thanks. How many lives did He save through His healings? How many more lives did He save as a result of giving up His? If you can't find examples, you ain't looking. Could you give me scriptures? James 4 17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. I am sorry, these are not examples of going to the authorities and the government to stop something, these are JESUS doing what JESUS showed us to do. How does that equate to going to the government and passing laws? This seems to be going to the people and changing hearts. Which is what I have been saying from the get go. So you don't believe calling the authorities to save a child from being abused is a good thing? I think sharing the gospel and talking with the parent is a better thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Which, by the way, is the example JESUS gave us. Again, I read my Bible and I do not see JESUS turning people over to the authorities. I do not see HIM stopping children from being sacrificed in the temples, I do not see the example you are talking about. All you have to do read the Word to find the examples you're looking for. Didn't Christ stop a woman from being stoned to death? How many demons did He cast out? He healed 10 lepers, yet only 1 gave thanks. How many lives did He save through His healings? How many more lives did He save as a result of giving up His? If you can't find examples, you ain't looking. Could you give me scriptures? James 4 17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. I am sorry, these are not examples of going to the authorities and the government to stop something, these are JESUS doing what JESUS showed us to do. How does that equate to going to the government and passing laws? This seems to be going to the people and changing hearts. Which is what I have been saying from the get go. So you don't believe calling the authorities to save a child from being abused is a good thing? I think sharing the gospel and talking with the parent is a better thing. And the child means nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted October 18, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 I never said i don't believe in laws. I said i do not believe in trusting government to fight the spread of evil. What I said is that we as Christians have the power to change the direction of the nation by changing the course of the church. By not putting so much concern into passing laws to fight a spiritual battle. If we use the weapons of this world, we loose. We are loosing because we fight in the courts, the congress and we loose because we do not feel we can trust GOD to deal with it. So, we choose our own power and the weapons of the world and GOD backs off and lets us. And we fail, and we fail, and we never learn to just do what the Bible says to do and leave the rest up to HIM. JESUS was about going to the people and changing the hearts and minds of the society. HE never advocated turning to any other means to fight evil. NEVER! No where in all of the teachings of JESUS or HIS followers is there a mention of changing the laws of the gentiles to force them to live by our standards. NEVER Why is that so hard to understand. It is Bible. If you do not want to accept what I am saying, then show me. Do not go into the laws of Israel (which should govern Christians). Show me where it is that JESUS or Paul or Peter or any of the teachers of the Gospel have said for us to use the government to force this life style on others? If we will walk in an absolute trust in GOD, trials will come. We will see evil rise up. If we continue to trust in GOD and continue to do as we are told, HE will honor that and remove that evil. If we choose to rise up in our own power and our pride and use the weapons of this world, HE will back off and let us, and we will fail EVERYTIME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted October 18, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 Which, by the way, is the example JESUS gave us. Again, I read my Bible and I do not see JESUS turning people over to the authorities. I do not see HIM stopping children from being sacrificed in the temples, I do not see the example you are talking about. All you have to do read the Word to find the examples you're looking for. Didn't Christ stop a woman from being stoned to death? How many demons did He cast out? He healed 10 lepers, yet only 1 gave thanks. How many lives did He save through His healings? How many more lives did He save as a result of giving up His? If you can't find examples, you ain't looking. Could you give me scriptures? James 4 17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. I am sorry, these are not examples of going to the authorities and the government to stop something, these are JESUS doing what JESUS showed us to do. How does that equate to going to the government and passing laws? This seems to be going to the people and changing hearts. Which is what I have been saying from the get go. So you don't believe calling the authorities to save a child from being abused is a good thing? I think sharing the gospel and talking with the parent is a better thing. And the child means nothing? What i think is sharing the gospel and engaging the parents will ultimately do the child a world of good better than having the parents thrown in jail and the child placed in a system that may not do him very good. Why is it that you feel talking and sharing the gospel is so bad and detramental to the child? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 JESUS was about going to the people and changing the hearts and minds of the society. HE never advocated turning to any other means to fight evil. NEVER! No where in all of the teachings of JESUS or HIS followers is there a mention of changing the laws of the gentiles to force them to live by our standards. NEVER How is calling the police and reporting child abuse, changing laws? I don't understand that. What laws would be changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 What i think is sharing the gospel and engaging the parents will ultimately do the child a world of good better than having the parents thrown in jail and the child placed in a system that may not do him very good. Why is it that you feel talking and sharing the gospel is so bad and detramental to the child? There's nothing wrong with sharing the gospel, but shouldn't the welfare of the child be your main concern? Does every person you share the gospel with fall on their knees in repentance? What makes you so sure the parents of an abused child will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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