The Deity of Christ

[Abigailwc]

The people who deny that the Bible is true have no problems believing other books that tell them about other people who lived in the very distant past. It makes no sense!

However, the existence of Christ is historical. Also, for those who do not believe that Jesus claimed to be God should know that Jesus was crucified because of blasphemy.

[HAZARD]

This subject came up in another thread. I would appreciate the discussion of this issue that is at the core of our faith. If someone comes up to you and asks, "Why do you believe that Jesus is God," what would you answer?

I leave the following verses -

Jhn 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.

Jhn 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Jhn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jhn 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

What say ye, saints?

Jesus Christ existed in His Spirit body as The Word (John 1:1) throughout all eternity past, untill He divested Himself of His Spirit body and became a man John 1:14). As God He has always existed. But, as a man, in taking human form, flesh and blood, He had a beginning.

Scripture, show that Jesus Christ was one of the three divine persons of the Deity and that as God he had no beginning.

John 1:1 states that He was the Word, and that He was with God, and that He was God. He became a man in John 1:14. The Father never divested Himself of His Divinity and became man, and He remained in Heaven the whole time Jesus was on the earth. Every time jesus prayed to the Father He prayed to Him "In Heaven." Jesus knew who the Father was and He also knew where the Father was.

Mic. 5:2 states Jesus existed from all eternity.

John states of Jesus as existing in the very beginning with the Father (John 1;1-5).

Jesus Himself said He was before Abraham, and before the World was created (John 8:58; 17:5, 24).

Paul states Christ as existing before all things and as the creator and upholder of all things (Col. 1:15-18; Heb. 1:1-3, 8; 2:10). God the Father created all things by Jesus (Eph. 3:9).

Divine names are ascribed to Him.

These divine names and titles proves that He is by nature divine and a member of the Godhead.

He is called God and Immanuel in (Matt. 1:23; John 1:1; 20:28 and Acts 20:28).

Christ the Lord (Luke 2:26); He is The Son of God (Matt. 4:3; 14:33; Luke 22:70; John 1:34; Rom. 1:4).

He is called "MY SON" by the Father in (Matt. 3:17); The only begotten Son (John 1:18; 3:16-18; 1 John 4:9).

He is called the First and the Last. Alpha and Omega, The beginning and Ending (Rev. 22:12, 13, 16). The Lord (Acts9:17); The Son of the Highest (Luke 1:32; Mark 14:61).

The Holy Child Jesus (Acts 4:30); King of Kings and Lord of Lords (Rev. 19:16); Lord and Savious (2 Peter 3:2); and The Word Of God (Rev. 19:13), and many more such titles show He is a member of the Divine Godhead.

In Phil. 2:5-11 Paul speaks of Christ being in God's form and that He laid aside this form and limited His attributes and powers as God to become a man. These powers were given back to Him when He was exalted to the highest place with God, (Coll. 3:1; Mark 16:19), after His lowest humiliation and limitation before God-even to do nothing, say nothing, be nothing and depend entirely upon God the Father for needed grace for body, soul, and spirit, and make a sucess of the work the Father sent Him into the world to do (Phil 2:9-11; Eph. 1:21-23; Col. 1:15-24; 1 Pet. 3:22). We know He did not keep His powers and position whilst a man, else He could not have been exalted back to it.

If He had not laid aside all His Glory and power He could not have had it restored to Him as stated in John 17:5. If He had retained all His riches while on Earth He could not have become poor for our sakes as taught in 2 Cor. 8:9. If He had kept His divine form He could not have taken on human form as taught by Phil. 2:5-11.

His incarnation proves He was limited as a man and grew to manhood as we all do, and He developed normally as any other human child. All the traditional theories of Him making toy birds and animals of mud and breathing life into them so they became real creatures and ran and flew away, and the many other miraculous powers He allegedly had from birth are mere theories and traditions made up by suspicious pagans to make Him equal with their pagan gods. He was a normal man as we are, and He did no miraculous works untill He was anointed fully by the Holy Spirit (Matt. 3:16-17; John 2:11).

After Jesus was annointed by the Holy Spirit to the full, He then posessed all the gifts and Graces of the Holy Spirit to the full, and He demonstrated what being like God among men really is like and He encouraged one and all who aspire to this exalted position, of sons of God with Power (John 3:34; Acts 10:38).

He laid aside His natural and divine attributes, and their use, and became a perfect example of yieldedness to God and His Spirit to overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil (Heb. 10:5-9; Acts 10:38).

Regarding His Humanity. Human names were ascribed to Him. Rabboni (John 20:16), Jesus (Matt. 1:21), Son of Abraham and David (Matt. 1:1), Seed and Offspring of David(Rom. 1:3; Rev. 5:5; 22:16). The second man and the Last Adam (1 Cor. 15:45-47). The King of the Jews (Matt. 2:2).

He was called a "BABE," a "CHILD," and a "MAN" (Luke 2:16; Isa. 9:6; Acts 17:31; 1 Tim. 2L4-5; Rom. 5:12-21; John 8:40; Acts 2:22; 1 Cor. 15:21, 45-47).

It was prophecied that He would be born of a human mother (Gen. 3:15; Isa. 7:14; 9:6-7; 11:1; 53:1-12; Ps. 22).

And He had flesh and blood like all other men (John 1:14; Heb. 2:14-15; 1 John 4:1-6; Luke 24:39; John 19:34).

Jesus Christ, resurrected in His glorified flesh and bone body, now sits beside the Father on a throne, in Heaven (Luke 24:39; John 20:27; Mark 16:19; Luke 22:69), for the Father, who is and did remain a Spirit being, is Spirit and has a Spirit body, and must be worshiped in Spirit and truth (John 4:24). Jesus could not sit beside His Father in Heaven with in a glorified flesh and bone body, and also be the Father who has a Spirit body?

[traveller]

Whether you like it or not, the Bible you hold in your hand is not the original word of God, as you stated there are no originals.

Whether you will admit it or not an English translation of a Greek or Latin manuscript which records a spoken word in Aramaic or Hebrew can never be considered the exact Word of God.

To claim the English Bible is inerrant is to place it on the same level as God, who iIS without error. I don

[Ovedya]

Whether you like it or not, the Bible you hold in your hand is not the original word of God, as you stated there are no originals.

Whether you will admit it or not an English translation of a Greek or Latin manuscript which records a spoken word in Aramaic or Hebrew can never be considered the exact Word of God.

To claim the English Bible is inerrant is to place it on the same level as God, who iIS without error. I don

[Guest shiloh357]

Whether you like it or not, the Bible you hold in your hand is not the original word of God, as you stated there are no originals.

Whether you will admit it or not an English translation of a Greek or Latin manuscript which records a spoken word in Aramaic or Hebrew can never be considered the exact Word of God.

To claim the English Bible is inerrant is to place it on the same level as God, who iIS without error. I don

[jmwhalen]

"Besides all of that mike you still have not dealt with the fact that you only believe the Bible when it fits your theology. When you come up against a teaching of the Bible you don't like you discredit the Bible's integrity." Shiloh 357

Well said. As I documented, by his own words. No one "believes" a Holy Bible that he corrects; for correcting the word of God presupposes an authority over it. The biblical principle and command(not suggestion) is that objective words determine doctrine, not vica versa, as Mike has stated. That is, he has a preconceived doctrine, and he relies on fallible source authorities(which I documented by his own on record statements) to validate his doctrine. He corrects the word of God, when it contradicts his doctrine, submitting the Holy Bible to his correction; thus he does not, and will not, submit to it. Thus, he can "prove" any doctrine with "opinions" outside of Holy Writ(the Pharisees mastered this art). This is the "Oprah Winfrey/"Dr. Phil" "Talk Show" approach to arriving at the truth, where all opinions are true, and everyone "nods there head in agreement." It is also referred to as subjectivism. We all have seen it before(Eccl. 1:9), and Judges 21:25 as proven correct once more-no infallible standard The Holy Bible is to correct him(2 Timothy 3:16 among many verses with this charge), but he will not bow, as it is written:

"...Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice...?" (Exodus 5:2 spiritual application-Romans 15:4......)

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

John,

Please explain all the information on the Kinsman redeemer.

Not all the information you give came from the Bible,

So you are correcting the Bible to support your doctrine. Asserting words and concept that are not found in the Bible.

____________

1, First, answer my questions on my posts-no "bait and switch" here.

2. "Not all the information you give came from the Bible, "

Wrong. You have not done a survey of the Holy Bible in order to arrive at that "opinion." I suggest you start at Genesis in the Holy Bible, not "the early manuscripts"(which you have not seen, nor read, nor examined), including the book of Ruth. I cannot do your work for you-ever heard of study, mediate"? And again, do not confuse your lack of reading comprehension skills, for error on the part of what I posted, or your resisting the Holy Spirit, from error on the part of what He wrote.

3. See my posts on kinsman redeemer. After you answer my questions, I will respond. If not, "...Neither do I tell..."(Mark 11:33) you, mike s, and "...What I have written I have written."(John 19:22 spiritual application).

4. Answer:

Besides all of that mike you still have not dealt with the fact that you only believe the Bible when it fits your theology. When you come up against a teaching of the Bible you don't like you discredit the Bible's integrity." Shiloh 357

Well said. As I documented, by his own words. No one "believes" a Holy Bible that he corrects; for correcting the word of God presupposes an authority over it. The biblical principle and command(not suggestion) is that objective words determine doctrine, not vica versa, as Mike has stated. That is, he has a preconceived doctrine, and he relies on fallible source authorities(which I documented by his own on record statements) to validate his doctrine. He corrects the word of God, when it contradicts his doctrine, submitting the Holy Bible to his correction; thus he does not, and will not, submit to it. Thus, he can "prove" any doctrine with "opinions" outside of Holy Writ(the Pharisees mastered this art). This is the "Oprah Winfrey/"Dr. Phil" "Talk Show" approach to arriving at the truth, where all opinions are true, and everyone "nods there head in agreement." It is also referred to as subjectivism. We all have seen it before(Eccl. 1:9), and Judges 21:25 as proven correct once more-no infallible standard The Holy Bible is to correct him(2 Timothy 3:16 among many verses with this charge), but he will not bow, as it is written:

"...]Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice...?" (Exodus 5:2 spiritual application-Romans 15:4......)

______________________________________

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

[Botz]

and...hi again Mike, I'm glad Traveller opened this thread again, and I know you have been industrious in your discussions, but I did ask you this several days ago, and was hoping you might find time to reply. Thanks in advance. Botz

Botz

Sorry I missed your question.

What is it about G-d, that sets Him so far apart from anyone or anything, that there can be absolutely no doubts that He alone is G-d, and that He is incomparable?

He is infinite, All of the Omni

[jmwhalen]

PS Idenify these "early manuscripts"

John

I was wrong.

[jmwhalen]

"Besides all of that mike you still have not dealt with the fact that you only believe the Bible when it fits your theology. When you come up against a teaching of the Bible you don't like you discredit the Bible's integrity." Shiloh 357

Well said. As I documented, by his own words. No one "believes" a Holy Bible that he corrects; for correcting the word of God presupposes an authority over it. The biblical principle and command(not suggestion) is that objective words determine doctrine, not vica versa, as Mike has stated. That is, he has a preconceived doctrine, and he relies on fallible source authorities(which I documented by his own on record statements) to validate his doctrine. He corrects the word of God, when it contradicts his doctrine, submitting the Holy Bible to his correction; thus he does not, and will not, submit to it. Thus, he can "prove" any doctrine with "opinions" outside of Holy Writ(the Pharisees mastered this art). This is the "Oprah Winfrey/"Dr. Phil" "Talk Show" approach to arriving at the truth, where all opinions are true, and everyone "nods there head in agreement." It is also referred to as subjectivism. We all have seen it before(Eccl. 1:9), and Judges 21:25 as proven correct once more-no infallible standard The Holy Bible is to correct him(2 Timothy 3:16 among many verses with this charge), but he will not bow, as it is written:

"...Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice...?" (Exodus 5:2 spiritual application-Romans 15:4......)

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

John,

Please explain all the information on the Kinsman redeemer.

Not all the information you give came from the Bible,

So you are correcting the Bible to support your doctrine. Asserting words and concept that are not found in the Bible.

____________

1, First, answer my questions on my posts-no "bait and switch" here.

2. "Not all the information you give came from the Bible, "

Wrong. You have not done a survey of the Holy Bible in order to arrive at that "opinion." I suggest you start at Genesis in the Holy Bible, not "the early manuscripts"(which you have not seen, nor read, nor examined), including the book of Ruth. I cannot do your work for you-ever heard of study, mediate"? And again, do not confuse your lack of reading comprehension skills, for error on the part of what I posted, or your resisting the Holy Spirit, from error on the part of what He wrote.

3. See my posts on kinsman redeemer. After you answer my questions, I will respond. If not, "...Neither do I tell..."(Mark 11:33) you, mike s, and "...What I have written I have written."(John 19:22 spiritual application).

4. Answer:

Besides all of that mike you still have not dealt with the fact that you only believe the Bible when it fits your theology. When you come up against a teaching of the Bible you don't like you discredit the Bible's integrity." Shiloh 357

Well said. As I documented, by his own words. No one "believes" a Holy Bible that he corrects; for correcting the word of God presupposes an authority over it. The biblical principle and command(not suggestion) is that objective words determine doctrine, not vica versa, as Mike has stated. That is, he has a preconceived doctrine, and he relies on fallible source authorities(which I documented by his own on record statements) to validate his doctrine. He corrects the word of God, when it contradicts his doctrine, submitting the Holy Bible to his correction; thus he does not, and will not, submit to it. Thus, he can "prove" any doctrine with "opinions" outside of Holy Writ(the Pharisees mastered this art). This is the "Oprah Winfrey/"Dr. Phil" "Talk Show" approach to arriving at the truth, where all opinions are true, and everyone "nods there head in agreement." It is also referred to as subjectivism. We all have seen it before(Eccl. 1:9), and Judges 21:25 as proven correct once more-no infallible standard The Holy Bible is to correct him(2 Timothy 3:16 among many verses with this charge), but he will not bow, as it is written:

"...]Who is the LORD, that I should obey his voice...?" (Exodus 5:2 spiritual application-Romans 15:4......)

______________________________________

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

Sorry John,

You ask questions yet never seem to answer any.

This is not bait and switch, it is just I have answered your inquiries you should extend the courtesy and answer mine.

If you expect this conversation should be You ask and I answer, You are mistaken. It is your turn

________

One more time

1.I did answer them in all of my posts. You confuse your lack of understanding/comprehension, from error on the part of what I wrote.

"...Understandest thou what thou readest? ..." Acts 8:30

No, you do not.

2. You are on record that you do not believe the Holy Bible. No evidence will convince you, and therefore none will be provided, per Luke 16:31. Read it yourself-none of this "my Bible Commentaries said.......blah blah blah" spin. There is your answer. Do you want me to explain Luke 16:31 to you, as it is written?:

"How can I, except some man should guide me? " Acts 8:31

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

[traveller]

Whether you like it or not, the Bible you hold in your hand is not the original word of God, as you stated there are no originals.

Whether you will admit it or not an English translation of a Greek or Latin manuscript which records a spoken word in Aramaic or Hebrew can never be considered the exact Word of God.

To claim the English Bible is inerrant is to place it on the same level as God, who iIS without error. I don