firehill Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2008 I think, however, there is a wisdom of this world that corresponds well to the false "wisdom" Eve must have seen at the tree. The father of lies is still at work in the world, and the best lies are "mostly" true. It's the origin of many religious cults to put their own peculiar "twist" to the Word of God. And many still go in at the gates of hell (Matt. 16:18) instead of through the Door (John 10:9). TreeOfKnowledgeOfGoodAndEvil, TOKOGAE Here's some thoughts and questions on lies and the Liar. The father of lies is the best at lieing, yes? Is what he says mostly true? Is there an ounce of truth in him or in what he says, ever? For example, in what he said about the both of them, that they (Hebrew, the serpent's used plural 'you') would not die, and would become like God 'knowing' (see Hebrew meaning) good and evil, was any of it true? John 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Eve lied only after she had partaken of the forbidden fruit. Are you sure? Where is this 'lie' recorded or testified to by any character in the bible? To "eat" of the tree, or to "touch" it, I believe, must have been equally as bad for Adam and Eve. I don't think there's a significant difference in receiving the same commandment in two different ways of saying it or in two parts. JMO. (The command that the Eve testified to which is more than the one given to alone Adam shows living by faith began in Genesis...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymba22 Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 588 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1967 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Did you know that Eve made only ONE mistake She married Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Biblicist Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Sin begins in the heart, not the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2008 Interesting post, Daystar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2008 Grace to you, Let's get one thing real clear. Eve believed satan over Gods own Word and that is when she fell. She then took the Fruit to her Husband and he then fell at the behest of his wife and the Temptation of satan because he too believed a Lie over the Truth. He still had a choice and so did Eve. satan took advantage of Eve and then Adam through Temptation. Yet like all of us there remained a way for Eve through Temptation and she did not take it, she yielded to it. She fell like we all do every day because now it is our nature. What are we then left with? The Word of God and whether or not we hold it to be True. That while we were yet sinners God died for us. At the right time too. Ro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2008 Amen, Dave. Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; All means all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tah Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 105 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,131 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 126 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/12/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2008 Amen Dave...what part of "do not" is hard to understand... Rebellion has always been and will always be the wrong choice... We probably all have the scars to prove it.. Praise God, he made a way for us to escape the eternal punishment .. Every time I read threads like this I am humbled by His mercy and love towards us... we certainly do not deserve it... Thank You Jesus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doowopjock Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 122 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/31/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/03/1949 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 Here's some thoughts and questions on lies and the Liar. The father of lies is the best at lieing, yes? Is what he says mostly true? Is there an ounce of truth in him or in what he says, ever? For example, in what he said about the both of them, that they (Hebrew, the serpent's used plural 'you') would not die, and would become like God 'knowing' (see Hebrew meaning) good and evil, was any of it true? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, it would appear that taking words of the Truth of God's Word to make your own version of the "truth" would certainly be an effective way of lying. Telling a "believable" lie is quite common among politicians, for example. I'm first-hand familiar with a cult that promotes the belief among its members, once they have been "hooked" into the organization, that there is in fact a state of "godhood" attainable by man. They also twist words of God's Truth to "support" such nonsense, as well as the idea that their own writings (those of their founder, a self-proclaimed "prophet") are divinely inspired by the hand of God. This is sometimes rightfully called taking Scripture "out-of-context", but that very phrase alone is also often "out-of-context" itself. There is, always has been, for ever will be only ONE God. Nobody will ever be "like" Him in the sense of being "a god". Therefore, when the serpent used the plural term in Gen. 3:5, saying "...ye shall be as gods...", this was a misleading statement designed to bring harm to the hearer; a lie. Now there are other places in Scripture where the word "gods" is used, but unlike the demonic doctrine of the cult I make reference to, this does not mean there are any such thing as other "gods" in the same sense that God Almighty is the one and only God of the universe. In like manner, while we do now indeed have knowledge of good and evil, I have to think it's not in our best interests in many cases to have such knowledge as human-beings and not as God Himself. The "lust" of being "wise" that the serpent apparently magnified in this story must have been promoted--deceptively--as something to be desired, and supported by the equally false notion that we, as human-beings, could be all that God is. So is there an ounce of truth in the father of lies..?? For these reasons, I have to say no. Even if not for these reasons, just the fact that Jesus refers to satan as the father of lies is Truth I know I can trust. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eve lied only after she had partaken of the forbidden fruit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you sure? Where is this 'lie' recorded or testified to by any character in the bible? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Under this criteria, perhaps I am wrong to say she lied. I stand corrected therefore, unless an equal weight can be given to the idea of a lie being to hide the truth of oneself from the Truth that is God and Eve was one flesh with Adam when he/they tried to hide himself /themselves from God's call to him ("...I hid myself." Gen. 3:10). In such a case, I would say that the one flesh Adam/Eve lied. But that's really splitting hairs, something my faith finds unnecessary. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To "eat" of the tree, or to "touch" it, I believe, must have been equally as bad for Adam and Eve. I don't think there's a significant difference in receiving the same commandment in two different ways of saying it or in two parts. JMO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (The command that the Eve testified to which is more than the one given to alone Adam shows living by faith began in Genesis...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interesting thought. Thanx for sharing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doowopjock Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 122 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/31/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/03/1949 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 Did you know that Eve made only ONE mistake She married Adam GOOD ONE..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doowopjock Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 122 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/31/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/03/1949 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 Did you know that Eve made only ONE mistake in taking the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..?? Compare these two verses from Genesis: "And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is PLEASANT TO THE SIGHT, and GOOD FOR FOOD;...." (Gen. 2:9) "And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD, and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES, and a tree to be desired to make one WISE, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (Gen. 3:6) There is a kind of "wisdom" that apparently is bad for man. Paul called it "the wisdom of this world" (I Cor. 3:19) Contrast this verse with James 3:17, which describes "the wisdom that is from above". There are many things in the world today that would purport to make men wise. But the Word of God STILL says what it always has about true wisdom. See Job 28:28; Prov. 9:10; Dan. 2:21. The ONLY real wisdom is in God's Book. Ain't another book like it--never has been, never will be. Be blessed. It is the wisdom...i.e, KNOWLEDGE of good and evil that is the problem here. Yes of course the Bible supports free will. We have free will but what does that mean? Freedom must be defined by parameters to exist at all. We are not as much free from something but free "To" something. This is real freedom. Let me use an allegory...We here in the United States claim that we are a "Free" people. We posess freedom. We have the freedom to choose to obey the laws of the land or disobey. It is in keeping the law that we find our freedom. We are free "To" keep the law. If we do break the law the sphere of our freedom decreases, i.e. we are moving AWAY from freedom into bondage. Now apply that to God and His Holy law, which, to our bane, is unkeepable. (Is that even a word?). None-the less we are free to live by it and inevitably fail...no freedom there. Thank God the Law has the inherent benefit of pointing us to our freedom- Christ Jesus! We are free "To" Christ; not "From" him. Is anything I am saying making any sense at all? In my studies I have come to the conclusion that "Free will" was created in Gen 1:3-5... "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and god divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and tghe morning were the first day." God is not describing the creation of the Sun, stars or moon here. That creation is clearly represented in Gen 1:14-18. It is my belief that what He created here was awareness of the spirit. Light/day= understanding/knowing oneself as defined by God---it is good Darkness/Night= ignorance/no self awareness---whether ir be intentionally or not it is not called good (Albeit is not called bad either- it simply "Is") John 3:19-21 clearly states that men CHOOSE to remain ignorant of the awareness (Good light) of God because of their sinful nature. This perpetrates within us what I call "The double sting of sin" . First it kills us (death=lack of purpose in God) and the very knowledge of it deters us from seeking the light from the only One who can give us that purpose-i.e. light. The foundation of light/darkness was the foundation necessary to create beings with free will-The angels and mankind. Why the creation of free willed beings then who have no power over evil but are destroyed mearly by the knowledge of it? The answer is as simple as it is profound and the basis of all creation-LOVE. In order for the lamb to love us in according to the biblical definition we must know the the difference between the light and the dark. Love does not rejoice in iniquity but in truth; and the very core of all truth is the awareness of God Almighty himself. THIS IS REALLY NEAT..!! I like the way you put it. I've always figured much of free-will is what we call nowadays a "no-brainer". Like you say about living by the laws, I have free-will to cross the road when there's traffic going by, or I can choose to wait until the road is clear. When we know the truth Who makes us free, I don't believe we can "out-love" Him. By that I mean that I love my grandchildren enough to let them play outside under conditions safe for them to do so. I will not allow them to play in the road--it is off-limits and the first time one of them is caught there by me, their punishment is not being allowed to play outside until I believe they are more determined to obey that rule about staying out of the road. I don't believe God would save me only to have me become a victim of Parental neglect--that don't even sound like Him. Likewise, the more my love for Him grows as I mature in the Holy Spirit, not only do I not want to do things that displease Him, but I also am more drawn to do those things that do please Him. The only thing I know about love and how to love anyone is by experiencing all the ways He loves me. And I also hope THAT makes sense, because Daystar's post did to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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