firehill Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2008 Grace to you, Let's get one thing real clear. Eve believed satan over Gods own Word and that is when she fell. She then took the Fruit to her Husband and he then fell at the behest of his wife and the Temptation of satan because he too believed a Lie over the Truth. He still had a choice and so did Eve. Looking at Adam, how do you know that he too believed a lie over the truth? Eve, we can understand believed the serpent therefore his lies because she said she was deceived once she realized that she had been. But does scripture tell us that Adam was deceived or that he was not? If Adam was not deceived then he believed the truth but ate anyway, if he was deceived then he did not believe the truth by falling for the same lies that Eve did. What does scripture say? Did Adam and Eve believe satan over God's word or just Eve? Was one of the two deceived or both? FYI:The serpent twisted God's command given to the alone man, and one can read this when comparing what he said to what God said, and when one does sees the comparison one can see exatcly what the serpent does to that command, but only if one knows what the singular command was or what God said to alone Adam. If one is not aware of what God said to the alone Adam, one cannot know the nature of what the serpent does to that singular command and therefore could fall for what the serpent said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firehill Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,980 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2008 I just have a few thoughts. There is, always has been, for ever will be only ONE God. Nobody will ever be "like" Him in the sense of being "a god". Therefore, when the serpent used the plural term in Gen. 3:5, saying "...ye shall be as gods...", this was a misleading statement designed to bring harm to the hearer; a lie. Now there are other places in Scripture where the word "gods" is used, but unlike the demonic doctrine of the cult I make reference to, this does not mean there are any such thing as other "gods" in the same sense that God Almighty is the one and only God of the universe. It literaly reads 'and you become as Elohim (God)' The serpent used the same term of divinity throughout: 'Did God (Elohim) really say' 'you (pl) shall become as God (Elohim) I cannot see why in the first instance it is singular and then the next plural. I've looked at scripture4all.org and did not see any indication that signals any difference. In like manner, while we do now indeed have knowledge of good and evil, I have to think it's not in our best interests in many cases to have such knowledge as human-beings and not as God Himself. The "lust" of being "wise" that the serpent apparently magnified in this story must have been promoted--deceptively--as something to be desired, and supported by the equally false notion that we, as human-beings, could be all that God is. God does not have this 'knowledge of evil' because he is Holy. Did satan tell the truth saying that they would become like God 'knowing' good and evil, implicating that God 'knows' evil? Here we have the serpent saying that Adam and his wife will become something that they are not now and it will be a good thing. It will make them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doowopjock Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 122 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/31/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/03/1949 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 I just have a few thoughts. There is, always has been, for ever will be only ONE God. Nobody will ever be "like" Him in the sense of being "a god". Therefore, when the serpent used the plural term in Gen. 3:5, saying "...ye shall be as gods...", this was a misleading statement designed to bring harm to the hearer; a lie. Now there are other places in Scripture where the word "gods" is used, but unlike the demonic doctrine of the cult I make reference to, this does not mean there are any such thing as other "gods" in the same sense that God Almighty is the one and only God of the universe. It literaly reads 'and you become as Elohim (God)' The serpent used the same term of divinity throughout: 'Did God (Elohim) really say' 'you (pl) shall become as God (Elohim) I cannot see why in the first instance it is singular and then the next plural. I've looked at scripture4all.org and did not see any indication that signals any difference. I'm not really that much given to doubtful disputations. I know a lot about some things and some about a lot of things, including that there will always be someone who knows more than I do and someone who knows less. There are things in the Word that I don't understand either. But I take comfort in knowing that I know all I need to know today and if tomorrow comes, God will make sure I need to know anything new then that I would need to know then. Much of what we don't know falls under the heading of Deut. 29:29 (i.e., not our business but only God's) while other things fall under Prov. 25:2 (He conceals and we search the matter out even as would honor kings). I believe He knew exactly the right words to choose for the way they would be translated into and understood by users of English before that was ever a language. In like manner, while we do now indeed have knowledge of good and evil, I have to think it's not in our best interests in many cases to have such knowledge as human-beings and not as God Himself. The "lust" of being "wise" that the serpent apparently magnified in this story must have been promoted--deceptively--as something to be desired, and supported by the equally false notion that we, as human-beings, could be all that God is. God does not have this 'knowledge of evil' because he is Holy. Did satan tell the truth saying that they would become like God 'knowing' good and evil, implicating that God 'knows' evil? Oh I disagree completely that there is anything that God doesn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2008 Grace to you, Let's get one thing real clear. Eve believed satan over Gods own Word and that is when she fell. She then took the Fruit to her Husband and he then fell at the behest of his wife and the Temptation of satan because he too believed a Lie over the Truth. He still had a choice and so did Eve. Looking at Adam, how do you know that he too believed a lie over the truth? Eve, we can understand believed the serpent therefore his lies because she said she was deceived once she realized that she had been. But does scripture tell us that Adam was deceived or that he was not? If Adam was not deceived then he believed the truth but ate anyway, if he was deceived then he did not believe the truth by falling for the same lies that Eve did. What does scripture say? Did Adam and Eve believe satan over God's word or just Eve? Was one of the two deceived or both? FYI:The serpent twisted God's command given to the alone man, and one can read this when comparing what he said to what God said, and when one does sees the comparison one can see exatcly what the serpent does to that command, but only if one knows what the singular command was or what God said to alone Adam. If one is not aware of what God said to the alone Adam, one cannot know the nature of what the serpent does to that singular command and therefore could fall for what the serpent said. Firehill, There are many ways to cut an apple however the apple remains an apple and by cutting it differently or dipping it into carmel we haven't changed it's basic elemental nature. It's still just an Apple. I believe that Traveller has summed up my post and scripture hasn't changed in this regard that all have fallen short of the Glory of God, Adam too. Dipping it in carmel or cutting it a different way hasn't changed the Truth or the veracity of the Law that Adam and Eve rebelled against. Ro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Did you know that Eve made only ONE mistake in taking the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..?? Compare these two verses from Genesis: "And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is PLEASANT TO THE SIGHT, and GOOD FOR FOOD;...." (Gen. 2:9) "And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD, and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES, and a tree to be desired to make one WISE, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (Gen. 3:6) There is a kind of "wisdom" that apparently is bad for man. Paul called it "the wisdom of this world" (I Cor. 3:19) Contrast this verse with James 3:17, which describes "the wisdom that is from above". There are many things in the world today that would purport to make men wise. But the Word of God STILL says what it always has about true wisdom. See Job 28:28; Prov. 9:10; Dan. 2:21. The ONLY real wisdom is in God's Book. Ain't another book like it--never has been, never will be. Be blessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Did you know that Eve made only ONE mistake in taking the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..?? Compare these two verses from Genesis: "And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is PLEASANT TO THE SIGHT, and GOOD FOR FOOD;...." (Gen. 2:9) "And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD, and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES, and a tree to be desired to make one WISE, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (Gen. 3:6) There is a kind of "wisdom" that apparently is bad for man. Paul called it "the wisdom of this world" (I Cor. 3:19) Contrast this verse with James 3:17, which describes "the wisdom that is from above". There are many things in the world today that would purport to make men wise. But the Word of God STILL says what it always has about true wisdom. See Job 28:28; Prov. 9:10; Dan. 2:21. The ONLY real wisdom is in God's Book. Ain't another book like it--never has been, never will be. Be blessed. I disagree. Eve made not just one but many mistakes. She allowed herself to be seduced by satan. She believed satan over the word of God which means she thought God was lying to her. She became vain and prideful like satan because she wanted to be a god like God to know good and evil and to be wise like God. She knew God had said not to eat of the tree but ate it anyways which shows she was rebellious against God and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doowopjock Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 122 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/31/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/03/1949 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 Did you know that Eve made only ONE mistake in taking the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..?? Compare these two verses from Genesis: "And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is PLEASANT TO THE SIGHT, and GOOD FOR FOOD;...." (Gen. 2:9) "And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD, and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES, and a tree to be desired to make one WISE, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (Gen. 3:6) There is a kind of "wisdom" that apparently is bad for man. Paul called it "the wisdom of this world" (I Cor. 3:19) Contrast this verse with James 3:17, which describes "the wisdom that is from above". There are many things in the world today that would purport to make men wise. But the Word of God STILL says what it always has about true wisdom. See Job 28:28; Prov. 9:10; Dan. 2:21. The ONLY real wisdom is in God's Book. Ain't another book like it--never has been, never will be. Be blessed. I disagree. Eve made not just one but many mistakes. She disobeyed God because she knew that she was not supposed to eat of the fruit. She didn't believe her husband. She listened to satan and was seduced. She believed satan over God when satan told that she would not die. And she became like satan in that she wanted to be a god like God. Knowing good and evil. She became vain and prideful. I don't disagree that all these things were mistakes. I was only referring to the one mistake she made in evaluating whether or not to partake of the fruit from the tree that was forbidden. The fact that it was good for food and pleasing to the sight was OK, because God had made the trees to be that. But when she saw that it was a tree that would make one "wise", THAT was her one mistake in using it as a deciding factor of whether or not to partake of its fruit (and, of course, believe the serpent in so doing). Apparently God never intended wisdom to befit mankind to come from the ground he was to walk on and have dominion over. At least, this is what I get from the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordFish Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 104 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2008 What this shows is that women Should Not Be In Charge Because They Were To Easily Decieved.... sf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doowopjock Posted November 2, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 122 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/31/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/03/1949 Author Share Posted November 2, 2008 What this shows is that women Should Not Be In Charge Because They Were To Easily Decieved.... sf Uhhhmm...whoops..!! Swordfish, with all due respect, I wouldn't touch this one with a ten-foot pole..!! It surely does seem like, though, that women can be deceived just like the men. I know if I had a quarter for every time I've been fooled in my life I could have paid off the mortgage by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordFish Posted November 3, 2008 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 104 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2008 It surely does seem like, though, that women can be deceived just like the men. I know if I had a quarter for every time I've been fooled in my life I could have paid off the mortgage by now. Just would like to say that it was the women that was decieved as Satan cahe me to her and tricked her to eat the forbidden fruit but on the other hand Adam was not decieved nor tricked by Satan only the woman was decieved. Man on the other hand just staightout rebelled against God not being decieved but Adam broke the law he was given not to eat of the forbidden tree. So Adam was without excuse and was not decieved thus having no excuse he just once again flat out rebelled against God. It could have been because he wanted what Eve had as her eyes had been opened by Satan's lies but Adam's eyes were still closed. I believe that men are not decieved they just outright rebell against the laws of God. The Word does not teach that men were deceived but the Word teaches it was the women who was decieved or tricked. The Word also tells us that Adam was first form then woman. Because of what happened in the garden and the curses were placed on the ground, on the serpent, also the man and the woman. Part of the curses mentioned was that the man would rule over the women. This I'm sure will be accepted well. sf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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