The Earth became? formless and empty

[Shiloh62]

Reading some posts here, I ran across the following:

One final comment about Gen. 1:2;

The King James Version says; And the earth was

[Bold Believer]

I am led to understand it as being as an artist working with clay. In the beginning God created this lump of clay and it's just a lump and as the chapter progresses, he explains that he took the clay and formed it from a lump into the world we know today. So while it was formless briefly, he immediately began to fashion it into what it now is.

Creating the heavens (Heb: Shemayim) is a little more difficult, because that leads me to wonder just what was there before. But then I guess the answer is: Just God.

A Hebrew speaker might or might not have issue with my understanding.

[Floatingaxe]

I have always understood it to mean "became", so I would really like to know what those technical reasons for it not meaning "became" are.

This may sound strange but I find your question confusing. I am a Hebrew speaker/thinker. To me, the words have meaning because that is what they mean. A rose is not a tractor. I am sure that you will agree that ancient Hebrew was a language of the culture and was in common usage by a national/ethnic group. With that as a given, it is impossible to accept that there was no understanding of past, present and future. As is true in every language, it is possible to express these qualities and quantities. In fact, Hebrew is excellent for defining the nuances.

Can you explain to me why the word, "became" doesn't mean "became"? I've been waiting a long time, and I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

Became is the infinitive form of Haya. That is, it is not the same word. The word in Genesis 1 is Hayita which is not the infinitive. Hebrew uses the series of words that English speakers think of as, "to be" in a way that is not the same. Sorry that I didn't answer earlier. As noted above, I was confused by the question. To me, it seemed like you were asking why apples are not bananas. Anyway, one of the wonderful things about Hebrew is the usages and the nuances that can be understood from what may seem like minor changes. The root word for both was and became are the same but the usages give them completely different meanings.

Thanks for your reply.

I am still of the understanding that the word used means that the earth "had become" formless and void. It distinctly alludes to a prior Earth that had once been NOT formless and NOT void, and then BECAME formeless and void.

God is good at allusion--He doesn't tell us all but in mystery, hints at more. Why? Because there is more!

[Bold Believer]

1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out

Hayah:

a) (Qal)

1) -----

a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass

b) to come about, come to pass

2) to come into being, become

a) to arise, appear, come

b) to become

1) to become

2) to become like

3) to be instituted, be established

If I were translating, I'd use this understanding. "The Earth came into being, formless and void." In other words, this is how the earth looked when it first appeared. Did it stay that way? Obviously not. Why not? Because God was still working on it. There is no allusion to a prior world, that is an assumption on the part of some people.

When we take a look at Isaiah 45:18, the LORD says that he did NOT create the earth 'tohu'...but he uses a different tense. He also qualifies it, saying that He formed it to be inhabited. Creation is a process which occurred over six days. God shaped and worked and cut and fitted and whittled and so forth until He got what He wanted.

The word 'bara' means to create from nothing, 'asah' and 'yatsar' (Isaiah 45) mean to shape and form from existing materials. This is not difficult to understand.

When a contractor picks a place to build, when he first sees it, it's barren in his mind, though he may have plans to work from. So he prepares it, then takes the plans and begins. This is pretty much the picture I get from Genesis:

1. God calls the earth into being

2. He shapes it until he gets what he wants

3. He says "It's good" and continues to the next phase until the entire process is done.

[Tehilah Ba'Aretz]

So was Lot's wife a pillar of salt...or did she beome a pillar of salt

Lot's wife _ tahi_ Became. Not Lehiyiot - was. It is not the same word.

[Tehilah Ba'Aretz]

It is not my intention to disparage the great bible commentaries and concordances you guys are using. I love to use, "Strongs" myself. I am only offering you my observations and questions because I may see things differently when I am thinking in Hebrew. It's a bit unusual I suppose but I really do see Israel differently in Hebrew and some of that translates into the way I read the Bible. I am not claiming to be either an authority or an expert. I think Dr. James Strong had an amazing grasp of both the Hebrew and the Greek.

[Bold Believer]

It is not my intention to disparage the great bible commentaries and concordances you guys are using. I love to use, "Strongs" myself. I am only offering you my observations and questions because I may see things differently when I am thinking in Hebrew. It's a bit unusual I suppose but I really do see Israel differently in Hebrew and some of that translates into the way I read the Bible. I am not claiming to be either an authority or an expert. I think Dr. James Strong had an amazing grasp of both the Hebrew and the Greek.

Modern Hebrew and the Hebrew of the Scriptures differ though, do they not Tehilah? Maybe not much, but there is a difference.

[hayahtowb]

Hi Celt.

But there's part of the problem.

If we defer to the thinking of human secularism and "age of reason" rhetoric, then the 'tohuw va bohuw' ("without form, and void" or "formless and empty") phrase gets totally away from how God interpreted it for us in other Bible Scripture.

In other Bible Scripture, the Hebrew word 'tohuw' ("without form") means something that existed which went into confusion and became a waste or ruin, like good fruit going bad. Likewise with 'bohuw' ("and void") per Isaiah 34:11 as translated to "stones of emptiness" (KJV). In Isaiah 45:18 God was very clear that He did NOT create the earth 'tohuw'. The word 'tohuw' is translated to "vain" there, but it's the same word for "without form" in Gen.1:2 and Jer.4:23. In Jeremiah 4:23-28, "without form, and void" appears again, and it's about a destruction God brought upon the earth destroying both man and beast.

This means "without form, and void" or "formless and void" are bad English translations.

It means the earth was NOT in a formless state in Gen.1:2, nor that it's about some kind of nothingness or chaotic ether state. If God's Word is used as the interpretor, then Gen.1:2 shows the result of a destruction upon the earth which God brought to end some event that had occurred upon the earth.

Thanks for the post.

AS for understanding the difference between earthly matter (the physical) and the heavenly, even the known UNIVERSE of stars and planets are part of the 'physical' creation of matter.

But Heaven where God dwells, that is about a different dimension altogether than the known physical universe. The way I think of the heavenly using scientific reasoning (as much as it be possible), it might have something to do with manifestations that exceed the speed of light, or something that would define a crease in time/space.

I like your post and would like to add "time" (to which you alluded) with it.

According to the book of Hebrews, God made time ((chapter1.2) the ages/worlds), and expersses Himself as in three diffrent ages of times, example: Revelations 1.8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the LORD, Which is, and Which was, and Which is to come, the Almighty." In fact Christ teaches about the diffrent ages in: Matthew 13.39-40, and 28.20~ Mark 10.30~ Luke 16.8; 18.30; 20.35-36

He also tells us the world (not ages) has no end: Ephesians 3.21

I'll end with saying the word "heaven" in genesis is plural because it's in contrast with the earth, and refers to diffrent ages of time. I think it was Lucifer's lie in Isiah 14.12-13 that caused God to judge His creation between Genesis 1 and 2, bringing about the creation of the flesh, to able to choose between life and death.

Thanks for the post.

Edited February 28, 2009 by hayahtowb

[Tehilah Ba'Aretz]

I studied Biblical Hebrew in Bible College with one of the finest Biblical Hebrew scholars alive today, Dr. Stanley Horton. That was a long time ago, of course. It is true that there are differences between Biblical Hebrew and modern Hebrew. For one thing, Biblical Hebrew does not have as many words. Modern Hebrew is a living language that changes and grows with time and use. Literally all of Biblical Hebrew is included in Modern Hebrew but the styles and some forms used in ancient times have been adapted in modern Hebrew. There are also some changes that would continue today but do not because we don't have anyone around writing out passages of revelation from God that I know about. You see, the Biblical record of God's speeches show that God reversed the tenses of time. God's past is our future so as to speak. (No, that is not what happened in Genesis one.)

[nebula]

So, Tehilah -

How would you translate the verse such that its true meaning was clear?