I have a question.

[Guest HIS girl]

[

color="#FF0000]No. Only God knows who is chosen and who is not. We are to assume that anybody we meet could be one of the chosen. We are to preach the gospel to all people.

If they are already chosen, then preaching is pointless. They WILL be saved even NO ONE preaches to them. According to people like you, God has obligated Himself to save certain people, and He cannot reverse that choice or lose one them. That means that preaching or no, they WILL be saved according to your "theology."

These are such wierd responses. They will be saved because GOD will send preacher who will testify to the glories of GOD. Even if many choose to not preach the word to the lost, GOD will raise up preachers.

So even though they are chosen before Creation - God NEEDS mans help to bring realisation of Salvation to the chosen?

What's the point of being chosen if they STILL need to hear the Gospel? See how it doesn't make sense?

Salvation to ALL, makes sense.

[SamP]

To tell you the truth, to me, it doesn't matter if He loves me or not. . . .

How could I possibly require that He love me. . . .

With all due respect Hunter - what you just wrote is completely whacked!

Your very statements paint a picture of God unfit to His nature.

The Scriptures declare point-blank, "God is love."

To theologize HISgirl's question with a statement that is untrue to who God is misses the whole point to theology.

Well, as usual, I didn't really make myself clear. It seemed to me that the poster was requiring G-d to be love or love people.

Now then, what does it matter to me if He loves me or just likes me or just whatever....G-d has by His Grace saved me and for that I love, appreciate, respect and serve, to the best of my ability...why is that whacked ?

Now, if G-d has done this for me because He loves me, well OK, so be it, but I don't think He has to love me in order for that to happen. Why, because He is G-d.

Now , the fact that He does love me( i did state this in a follow up response) just makes it all the more special and anyone thinking that He would create something He loves just to destroy it...well now, that is whacked.

John 3:16

1Tim.2:4... Who will have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

It is not Gods will for anyone to perish, that's why He gave Jesus, His Son to die and arise again on the 3rd day.

Heb.10:26... For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

You see, it's completely up to us, whether we go to Heaven or hell. Gods Will is that all men will be saved.

Rom.10:9,10... That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Think about this: Why would God give His Son to suffer like no man has ever suffered if what He wrote in the KJV Bible was not true? God so loved the world, not just those that loved Him and served Him. John 3:16 says plainly...

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Notice it says God so loved the WORLD. Also notice WHOSOEVER. That means anyone, anywhere, any place. They must Believe and give their heart to Him, then OBEY HIM until their last breath. Then they'll go to Heaven forever. God does not want anyone to go to hell, period.

[larryt]

color="#FF0000"]No. Only God knows who is chosen and who is not. We are to assume that anybody we meet could be one of the chosen. We are to preach the gospel to all people.

If they are already chosen, then preaching is pointless. They WILL be saved even NO ONE preaches to them. According to people like you, God has obligated Himself to save certain people, and He cannot reverse that choice or lose one them. That means that preaching or no, they WILL be saved according to your "theology."

In one sense you are right that God will make sure that the chosen are saved. Jesus will not loose any that the Father gave to Him.

This does not in any way eliminate man's responsibility to call upon the name of the Lord. God determined that man would call when he hears the Gospel that is preached. It is preached by those that God sends.

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

vs 13 - Salvation is available to everybody that responds. This is how man sees salvation. "It is available to me." From another perspective(try to look at it from more than one angle for it is multidimensional) only those chosen from before time will respond. Both are true.

You wouldn't be wasting your time, see above.

Yes, it would be a waste of time. There isn't any reason to preach to the "chosen," as they will be saved even if they don't hear the gospel, and no amount of preaching will be effectual to those who aren't saved, so it really has nothing to do with preaching, and it makes the preacher and the intercessor for souls into laughing stocks.

Only if you have no understanding of what salvation is all about.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

What's there to find confusing in this verse? It is straight forward and simple. It says that God chose us before the beginning of the world.

What it says is that God chose us (Christians) to be holy and without blame. He made that choice before the foundation of the world. It does not say, "God chose us to become Christians." Paul is speaking to Christians about what God has chosen for them to be (holy and blameless). The choice pertains to God's agenda for the saved. It does pertain to who is or is not saved. You're letting your theology drive your interpretation.

You miss a word. He chose us before the foundation of the world THAT we should be holy....... God still chose!!!!!!

Ac 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Ac 18:10 For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are THEcalled according to [his] purpose.

Ro 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Ro 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God

[Guest HIS girl]

'larryt'

The Jews were furious at the thought that God would choose a gentile widow in the time of Elijah, or a gentile, Syrian, leper to heal in the time of Elisha.

Go and read the "good Samaritan" story....just read that story again....

Those that fight the hardest to deny the doctrine of election are the enemies of the cross.

Are you happy with that sentence?

That's a big call larryt.

[Guest HIS girl]

='larryt'

Do you have children? You and your wife chose to have children. They didn't have any choice in the matter. They just found themselves born into the world. God begets His children and they are born again, not because they chose. They chose because God gave them life.

I know women who have had babies to love and cherish.

I don't know one woman who would choose to have a baby in order to kill it.

[Massorite]

[

color="#FF0000]No. Only God knows who is chosen and who is not. We are to assume that anybody we meet could be one of the chosen. We are to preach the gospel to all people.

If they are already chosen, then preaching is pointless. They WILL be saved even NO ONE preaches to them. According to people like you, God has obligated Himself to save certain people, and He cannot reverse that choice or lose one them. That means that preaching or no, they WILL be saved according to your "theology."

You wouldn't be wasting your time, see above.

Yes, it would be a waste of time. There isn't any reason to preach to the "chosen," as they will be saved even if they don't hear the gospel, and no amount of preaching will be effectual to those who aren't saved, so it really has nothing to do with preaching, and it makes the preacher and the intercessor for souls into laughing stocks.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

What's there to find confusing in this verse? It is straight forward and simple. It says that God chose us before the beginning of the world.

What it says is that God chose us (Christians) to be holy and without blame. He made that choice before the foundation of the world. It does not say, "God chose us to become Christians." Paul is speaking to Christians about what God has chosen for them to be (holy and blameless). The choice pertains to God's agenda for the saved. It does pertain to who is or is not saved. You're letting your theology drive your interpretation.

It is rare Shiloh But I have to say that I agree with you 100% here. The bible tells us on more then one occasion that many are CALLED but few are CHOSEN. If every one who was called went to heaven then we would all be going to heaven no matter what kind of life we live. But that isn't what scripture says is it. Many are called because God makes an appeal to us to live a life in Christ and His righteousness. The question here should be. If many are called but few are chosen then why are there only a few that are chosen. The answer is because all who were not chosen decided to listen to the world and rejected the appeal from God. Is God calling those He already knows will reject Him? If He know they are going to reject Him then why bother to call them? If God already knows who He is going to be chosen then why bother to call them in the first place. I am not saying that God doesn't already know who is going to reject Him. I am saying that who ever God calls has the choice to receive or reject Him and it is God who gives them that choice to choose. Which is why many are called but only a few are chosen.

There is no such thing as predestination were God is concerned.

[kross]

They will be saved because GOD will send preacher who will testify to the glories of GOD. Even if many choose to not preach the word to the lost, GOD will raise up preachers.

If the chosen have already been chosen, why the need for preachers?

Because, as you well know, that is the way GOD decided to do it. If the truth is written on mens hearts for they will not be able to say "I did not know", if the truth of GOD can be seen in creation, then why do we preach? Because that is the way GOD has decided to save HIS people.

[kross]

What is the point of witnessing to people who are predestined for Hell?

What is the point of showing God's love to people who are sentenced before birth to Hell?

Show me the logic of that mindset.

There is no logic.

If the "winners" and "losers" have already been chosen, then Christ's death on the Cross holds no meaning.

There would be no reason to preach the Gospel, because whoever is chosen to be saved would be saved whether they heard the Word or not.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

There is no logic to that mindset.

HE is named JESUS because HE will save HIS people. HE died to save HIS people. A small part of why we preach is to save HIS people.

Save His people from what? You claim that all who are saved has already been determined.

What is purpose of spreading the Gospel if the chosen have already been chosen?

Again, you know the Bible says to. You know that it is the way GOD has determined to save HIS people. You know that this is what GOD decided would be a good way to save HIS people out of the world. You know that HIS people needed a savior to cover thier sins. You know they need to recieve that salvation. You know that they do that by hearing the gospel and the good news of what JESUS did for them.

GOD never needed any of us to save HIS people. HE chose to make us a part of the process. HE could have used parrots if HE wanted to, or a talking donkey as with Baalam. HE included us in HIS plan because HE wanted to. I believe HE wants us to talk well of HIM and tell everyone how wonderful HE is just because HE is wonderful. Which is what "testify" means.

[kross]

='larryt'

Do you have children? You and your wife chose to have children. They didn't have any choice in the matter. They just found themselves born into the world. God begets His children and they are born again, not because they chose. They chose because God gave them life.

I know women who have had babies to love and cherish.

I don't know one woman who would choose to have a baby in order to kill it.

That sounds like the answer of someone who believe all people are GOD's children.

[kross]

1Tim.2:4... Who will have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

It is not Gods will for anyone to perish, that's why He gave Jesus, His Son to die and arise again on the 3rd day.

Heb.10:26... For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

You see, it's completely up to us, whether we go to Heaven or hell. Gods Will is that all men will be saved.

Rom.10:9,10... That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Think about this: Why would God give His Son to suffer like no man has ever suffered if what He wrote in the KJV Bible was not true? God so loved the world, not just those that loved Him and served Him. John 3:16 says plainly...

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Notice it says God so loved the WORLD. Also notice WHOSOEVER. That means anyone, anywhere, any place. They must Believe and give their heart to Him, then OBEY HIM until their last breath. Then they'll go to Heaven forever. God does not want anyone to go to hell, period.

Hi Sam,

Welcome to the fray.

"ALL MEN" can mean men from every tribe and nation, not necessarily all people. Though it can mean that. Some of us believe if GOD wants to save all men, HE will, and we are certain that HE will save all the men HE wills to save.

As far as the "world" and "Whosoever", Calvinists like to take the word "world" which comes from the word "kosmos" and explain that it can have many meanings. Since I have never liked their arguements, I just like to ask if the world has to mean everything and everyone in the world.

Not only does the "whosoever will" imply that there are the "whosoever that won't" but, when placed back in its context, JESUS teaches that, though the offer of salvation is for every person on the planet, none of them will come because their deeds are darkness and they will not come to the light. So, JESUS deals with the "whosoever" in HIS teaching from which this verse is removed.

In this same teaching, JESUS finishes up by stating that only those whose works are "IN GOD" will come. Since each and every one of us has our being in GOD, the statement must have significance in explaining that the author of their good works (and as we know the author of any good thing) is the LORD. In order to come to JESUS, one must first be born of THE SPIRIT. It is only then that they can know spiritual things and turn to the author and finisher of their faith. This is taught to us just prior to John 3:16 as part of a cohesive line of thought from JESUS HIMSELF.

John 3:16 should never be taken out of its context. It looses a lot.