kross Posted January 15, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Yes we agree. It is only by the grace of GOD that I am not a murderer, rapist, pedifile, drug addict, alcoholic, homosexual. I could be any or all of these, the heart is decietfully wicked continuously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcampsart Posted January 15, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 231 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/14/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted January 15, 2009 for 2,000 years Bible scholars have debated the doctrins of election. Both sides are convinced they are right and the others are decieved. It will be that way until CHRIST comes again. (unless HE decides otherwise) So it is one of those doubtful things that is not worth fighting or argueing about. It is worth the discussion but all to often the discussions degrade to name calling or the "I'm right and your wrong" attitude. We are saved by faith in JESUS CHRIST. How we got that faith...? WHOA... EXACTLY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 For those of you who believe in a select/chosen people before time as we know it - please, how do YOU explain what Jesus said in Luke 19 v 10: "for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Because HIS chosen are the sheep of HIS flock that are gone astray and HE leaves the 99 and goes after them. HE calls them by name and they know HIS voice and will not follow another. The shepherd goes to the sheepgate and calls out those who are HIS, only. HE doesn't call those that belong to someone else. Let me understand completely here - the "chosen" need to be called because they have gone astray? So in a sense, Jesus didn't just die only for the sinners but the 'chosen" as well? But they are already chosen from pre Creation right? It's not making much sense. Explain please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted January 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted January 15, 2009 For those of you who believe in a select/chosen people before time as we know it - please, how do YOU explain what Jesus said in Luke 19 v 10: "for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Context, context, context. The passage is about the call and salvation of Zacchaeus. Another indication that Jesus found all His sheep that were lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted January 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted January 15, 2009 For those of you who believe in a select/chosen people before time as we know it - please, how do YOU explain what Jesus said in Luke 19 v 10: "for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Because HIS chosen are the sheep of HIS flock that are gone astray and HE leaves the 99 and goes after them. HE calls them by name and they know HIS voice and will not follow another. The shepherd goes to the sheepgate and calls out those who are HIS, only. HE doesn't call those that belong to someone else. Let me understand completely here - the "chosen" need to be called because they have gone astray? So in a sense, Jesus didn't just die only for the sinners but the 'chosen" as well? Not "as well?" Jesus died for His people for He came to save His people from their sins. The elect are sinners that need saving. Lu 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, But they are already chosen from pre Creation right? It's not making much sense. Explain please. Because they are chosen does not mean that they are not sinners. Before the foundation of the world God chose a group of people from among the sinners to be the Bride of Christ and gave them to Him. Jesus told us that all of them that were given to Him would come to Him and that He would loose none of them. He redeems them, justifies them, glorifies them. LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 'larryt' Before the foundation of the world God chose a group of people from among the sinners to be the Bride of Christ and gave them to Him. Please larryt, can you show me Scripture to support that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcampsart Posted January 15, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 231 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/14/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) 'larryt' Before the foundation of the world God chose a group of people from among the sinners to be the Bride of Christ and gave them to Him. Please larryt, can you show me Scripture to support that? I'm not declaring this as my stance. Just wanted to throw these two verses in for thought! 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. [Rev 17:8] Could the words"from the foundation of the world" mean God's chosen were written in the book BEFORE the beginning of all things or do they mean "FROM the beginning and all throughout history the names are written in as people (through their own free-will) choose God's gift of salvation? 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. [Psalm 139:14-16] When as YET there were none of them... This verse could (according to one's own interpretation) mean that God's fashioning us in our mother's womb (before our birth) our parts written in the book as a recording of our individual blueprint. I don't know... could it mean he writes the names of his CHOSEN in his book as they're being fashioned in the womb and BEFORE they are even born? Edited January 15, 2009 by dcampsart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 'larryt' Before the foundation of the world God chose a group of people from among the sinners to be the Bride of Christ and gave them to Him. Please larryt, can you show me Scripture to support that? I'm not declaring this as my stance. Just wanted to throw these two verses in for thought! 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. [Rev 17:8] 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. [Psalm 139:14-16] So are those verses saying the "chosen" have their names in the Book of Life from the start? No one elses but theirs? Or could it be, we ALL had our names in the Book of Life from the start and as time went on and those that rejected God - their names were removed - thus leaving only the children of God's names in there? Exodus 32 v 32 "Yet now, if You will forgive their sin - but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written." Moses. Exodus 32 v33: And the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book." God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcampsart Posted January 15, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 231 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/14/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted January 15, 2009 'larryt' Before the foundation of the world God chose a group of people from among the sinners to be the Bride of Christ and gave them to Him. Please larryt, can you show me Scripture to support that? I'm not declaring this as my stance. Just wanted to throw these two verses in for thought! 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. [Rev 17:8] 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. 16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. [Psalm 139:14-16] So are those verses saying the "chosen" have their names in the Book of Life from the start? No one elses but theirs? Or could it be, we ALL had our names in the Book of Life from the start and as time went on and those that rejected God - their names were removed - thus leaving only the children of God's names in there? Exodus 32 v 32 "Yet now, if You will forgive their sin - but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written." Moses. Exodus 32 v33: And the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book." God. I sincerely don't know... I have my opinions and interpretations but I have to side one way or the other or simply... hangout on middle ground! Is that fence straddling? Another example of interpretation differences in the words below extracted from a commentary written by Herb Evans, Ltt.D. Being Blotted Out From The Book Of The Living Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Is Herb Evans commentary acknowledged as sound by the broader theological community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts