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I recently heard this verse put forth as support for Calvinism. It seems like this is a pretty shut case because of it. I'm seriously considering becoming a Calvinist because of it! How do people with other views deal with it? Corinthians 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

You nailed it Neb. Your question exposes the absurdity of evolutionary theism. When did orange (no sin, animal instinct) turn into red (sin, human free will)? The secular answer to this is obvious. Ciao - viole Well that is a clever refutation but I don't think it works. A Christian believes in a supernatural God who intervenes in creation and hands out a soul and is the giver and taker of life. If you believe in THAT kind of God, there is nothing stopping Him from intervening at a particular point in history to make one particular "monkey" a soul and become man. It isn't what I think happened but it would still fit with theism. The issue with evolution is not the soul but with death as a creative process.

Because by your argument he did it for dogs, humans live in cold climates too. Why not give humans wings or gills? Why not make us 10 feet tall? Really Stargaze, you are making arguments like a grade schooler looking for one-up-manship. Is this your reason for dialoguing here?

Physiological changes require cellular changes, hormonal changes, cell receptor changes, etc. There's a lot of nit-picky details that go into physiology. Have you learned how complicated blood pressure regulation is? How many organs are involved? How many hormones? How many neural sensors there are? Etc? Or have you learned how complicated the conduction of a nerve impulse is? Or muscle contraction? How do you envision these as simple morphological changes where the physiology automatically follows? Like what? How come there are dramatic changes in the kinds of life seen between fossil layers? Why can there not be seen gradual changes between these geological layers?

Well, for nearly 2000 years Christian scholars could not imagine a Jewish Nation in the Holy Land. So they allegorized / spiritualized the texts that said they would return. That in itself ought to have some impact on your view as Morning Glory essentially stated that Israel is the time piece in God's hand.. And what Rock band were you in?

My conclusion to the whole debate is thus: If a person is separated from the Lord, we need to intercede for and plead with that person to come to the Lord. If a person who has been walking with the Lord falls away from the Lord, we need to intercede for and plead with that person to repent and return to the Lord. These are Biblical principles and commands. It is not for us to determine "the called," "the chosen," whatever else or even if there is such a thing. Unless the Lord reveals something specific to you about a specific person, the separation of the wheat from the chaff is His job, not ours.

Yes But I have found out he has a girlfriend so its completely in God's hands...

Thanks for responding and for the prayers Fresno Joe. Socal Jerry, I can totally relate to you and maybe that's my problem, not letting go and letting God. Thanks for the awesome advice! I think the hard part is actually letting go and reminding yourself that God is in control because the outward forces can be discouraging at times.

Hey ashwise! I'm learning to let go and let God. I'm learning that he is in control, and when I try to force things (people, relationships) it's my will and it never turns out well??? Blessings!!!