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I don't have any answers for you about your dream. As for your neuropathy I found that Taurine works for at least part of the problem, I take about 500mg at night but you can take more if needed. Do a google search, it seems that drs are finding it does help with neurological disorders amoung other things. I certainly can tell the difference after a few days of not taking it. I finally got a friend of mine who has diabetic neuropathy and even though he takes drugs for it the pain is somehow always there and when taurine was added he noticed a difference. Just a thought. Thank you... I'll look into it.

Faith is not always getting what we ask for immediately consider this passage in Hebrews 11: They were stoned, they were sawed in two, they died by the sword, they wandered about in sheepskins, in goatskins, destitute, afflicted, and mistreated. The world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts, mountains, caves, and holes in the ground. All these were approved through their faith, but they did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, so that they would not be made perfect without us. Hebrews 11:37-40 HCSB Exactly...EricH that's the thought I was on in my reply previous before yours. I totally agree with you!

Yes... this experience did come after initially dwelling on why I have felt this pain for so long along with other questions. Do you mind if I ask what your chronic illnesses are? Understand if I should just mind my own business.

I know... here he goes again! I had a very vivid dream last night where I saw just an arm reaching up into the leaves of a tree. I saw the the hand pull a leaf from a branch. As soon as the leaf separated from the branch, a bright blueish starburst occurred and vanished as quickly as it appreared. Then the arm reached forward and held out the leaf to me with the words "Take and eat... for this is medicine to you." The scene repeated itself three times then it was over. I was wondering if this could have anything to do with the original topic I posted here. I know... it could just be too much pizza before going to bed! I didn't feel there was any possible association to my original experience until I read Ezekiel 47:12 12 Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their WATER flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine.

I too was wondering if this isn't your own interpretation or ideas Celt because I've never seen any representation as to any symbolic meaning to the woman having five husbands - except for how the Lord knows all things about us. What source/sources are you basing your ideas on?

I do agree with man, Larryt and StaceyC. You are of the thought that I'm accepting now. I've often said how I actually thank God for this 24/7 chronic pain from neuropathy because of the changes it has wrought in my life toward seeking God but I sometimes cringe when I remember some reactions I would've got had I said that to some who were in the faith movement in the past. They would've thought I caused my pain to remain because of my negative confession and that I'm not right to say or believe that God has allowed this. I've come to believe differently since reading how much David said it was GOOD that God afflicted him because, prior to that, he was going astray! I don't want to turn this into a debate about whether or not a certian movement is right or wrong. When I read the introductory verses to Hebrews 11, I keep asking myself what does faith... forgive me... feel like or look like or act like. The word says that faith is the SUBSTANCE to what we HOPE for and.... the EVIDENCE of things not yet SEEN. Does this explain believers ACTIONS because of their faith? I marvel when I read in the "hall of faith" how people, like Sarah, are included because she judged Him faithful who had promised. However, I remember her laughing at hearing the Lord's promise she would have a son. Maybe it can be seen as faith because deep down, she still trusted God no matter how impossible it looked. Then the people who all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. [Hebrews 11:13] I guess their faith truly had SUBSTANCE and EVIDENCE! Even though great wonders were performed through many belilevers' faith, many also never received what they were believing for but yet they received a good report. 39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us. [Hebrew 11:39-40] I guess there's a balance in everythig... even faith!

So sorry... I picture that scene and think how rediculous I must look when attempting to do things my way! Good thought StaceyC!

I agree with you here also. I guess I did actually separate the idea of what I say or claim and believing or trusting. I too believe I should be careful in what I confess but I got tired of feeling like I was not believing enough or watching my confession enough... feeling like everything is my fault if what I confess or am believing for doesn't come to pass. God isn't deaf after all! I know I don't have to repeat prayers over and over again thinking my many words will get him to listen! Maybe I should BELIEVE once and then simply believe and thank him for the answer. I often look at people in wheelchairs or limping along with walkers or handicapped in any way and think about how wonderful it would be to have the FAITH to walk up to them, lay hands on them and tell them what Peter and John told the lame beggar. Trust me... I'm not too fanatical in this thought. I don't know if I'll ever have the faith to attempt that sort of thing. I wish I had the courage and FAITH to walk into hospitals and pray for the sick but I always give into the idea of what if it doesn't work.

I agree Blien. I remember a famous faith movement preacher saying that God's answer to Paul's dilemma, with the thorn in his flesh, was that His grace being sufficient for him was the grace to believe his way out of the situation. I don't read where the thorn was ever removed. My take was that God's grace was sufficent for him to bear with it instead. After hearing the preacher talk about his ideas, I started reevaluating my position in this sort of teaching. You are right though... confidence in God's ability to provide or deliver is still what faith is all about! Thanks...

I don't know why but Hebrews 11 is CONSTANTLY on my mind. 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. [Hebrews 11:1-3] I am continually trying to break down and analyze faith. I think of how it's ONE thing that triggers a response from God! It's probably the most pleasing thing to God we can operate in. I know... the greatest gift is LOVE but doesn't scripture say... FAITH which worketh by (through) LOVE? When I think of how Jesus said when we pray if we BELIEVE we'll receive, we shall have it, I ask myself the question..."How does faith work?" How do you know that you know what you ask for is going to happen? I used to be heavily involved in the faith movement but have stepped back and presently I'm reevaluating my position. Personally, I find it more comforting to focus on the sovereignty of God, believing that all things work together for good. I've wondered if that may be a lazy approach. I say lazy because some I knew, heavily involved in the faith movement, used to say that Christians who rail against "naming and claiming" are just too lazy to fight the good fight! Think about the heroes we read about in the remainder of the verses in the "great hall of faith!" I'm sorry but I have to wonder what the believer was thinking about confessing and possessing his or her way out of being sawn in two not necessarily working! I don't know why Hebrews 11 is constantly on my mind. What could God be attempting to get into my hard head? What is your take? Do we believe and SPEAK things into existence or do we resign ourselves to trusting God knows best?

Everyone... yes..... 12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body

Not at all. Part of working together as a body means that the Lord will give a revelation to one and the interpretation to another - forcing us to work together rather than as single units. It also helps keep us humble. And I'm sure there are others who will benefit from this word. I wanted to call it a problem but after reading what you said here, it make sense, receiving a revelation ONLY is NOT wrong after all. In any experience like this, I've always received some REVELATION about something but NEVER do I receive any kind of INTERPRETATION. I thought something was lacking in me but the idea that it may be the Lord "forces" individuals in the body to participate "collectively" is certainly a good thing! Concerning the thought that others may benefit from this... that is why I posted this thread. Not only do I hope someone benefits from this, I would greatly appreciate it if anyone can interpret something like this... what is the purpose of coming to the waters of Meribah when it was such a time of striving and contending with Moses and the Lord. I too like StaceyC's interpretation of the idea we are not to "beat" our heads against the rock but simply, in faith, SPEAK! Thank you for your words of encouragement!

1 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; 3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron

Boy... encouragement is what will be needed in the days to come for sure. I just finished watching the History Channel on the Apocalypse and the seven seals... very graphic. I know... it's TV but it makes me think of the importance of getting to know and trust God more and more for the tumultuous times that are just around the corner as well as for the here and now! Thanks for your reply

Very strange indeed StaceyC because, before having this experience, you were on my mind all day and definitely for no apparent reason so I thought this may have been for you. I thought I should send you a PM but when I heard that this may be for others on WCF, I decided to post. Maybe someone else can get something from this... I don't know. Thanks for your feedback! By now... I'm sure people are saying "Why don't you two PM instead of bothering us here!"

Thanks nebula. What would be your interpretation as to why (if this is a word from God) that he would call people to come to the waters of Meribah? It was a place of contention and strife amongst the people contending with God and a place where Moses STRUCK the rock instead of SPEAKING to it. I strongly believe that if anybody has a so-called word from the Lord, it should directly line up with his word or be debunked as useless. If he wants people to come to a place like that, could it be that I'm missing the main gist of this? Maybe it has something to do with COMING TO THE ROCK and just.......SPEAK? I know a lot of commentaries point to Jesus was the one Moses smote incorrectly the second time and that he doesn't need to be crucified all over again but to come to him in faith - believing - SPEAKING to him as one who is a FRIEND... like Moses? I know lately, I'm convicted quickly of the SLIGHTEST murmuring or complaint on my part. Don't know why but I believe the Lord is telling me that if I can't say anthing good or positive about a circumstance or event then, simply.... KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT!! Even if I don't believe the Lord will make a way where there seems to be no way, it would be a whole lot better if I remain silent while waiting and just TRUST! Maybe.... just maybe.... if the Israelites would've just stood their... with their mouths shut... even if they saw no way that God would provide in their time of darkness and need, Moses may have not sinned. Maybe he would've simply SPOKE to the rock as God commanded and God would've been truly sanctified in the sight of the people as he originally intended. The people would've been guilty of doubting God in their hearts but at least their words would not have exemplified their distrust in Him. As I'm typing, the picture of how the Lord, after smitten on the cross, cries out... "IT IS FINISHED!" Immediately... the veil was rent in two!! Hmmmmm... He SPOKE and the.... ROCK gushed forth??? Ahhhhh... I don't know........ ANYBODY?

I appreciate everyone's feedback but I took particular notice of the quotation in your comments or "signature" where it says: "The Bible is . . . the story of God making His reality known in the brokenness of our world. It doesn't end with a book called Revelation, but with a person - Jesus Himself! Scripture guides us to Him so we can know him. (John 5:40)" ~Wayne Jacobsen If you didn't think I'm already nuts for this long-winded explanation of what I believe the Lord is laying on my heart, you'll think I'm CERTIFIABLE after reading my . I forgot about much of what I had to say here in this long post until I read it again after seeing peoples' comments. I believe the other post is somewhat tied to this one. What I really need is somebody's interpretation in helping me decipher if it means anything or am I just speaking vain imaginations, if so, I truly hope the Lord will forgive me!

I am extremely nervous to post this topic - especially after reading the warnings in Jeremiah pinned at the top! I want to make it clear that I don't consider myself prophetic in any sense of the word. I have no idea of what that office is about or how to even operate in it... another reason for my trepidation! I simply want to share something that has been on my heart for a few days and maybe the members here can help me decipher this thing because... it will not leave me alone!! I had no idea of where to start this thread but after finding this forum - I thought I'll take a chance. I also want to stress that I don't want to set myself up as if I'm guided by divine providence as if anybody would have to listen to anything I have to say. WHO AM I... NOBODY! Just someone who found this website after returning to the Lord a few years ago. When I followed the Lord in the past, I was big into TV ministries. I watched them all the time with minimal attention to the word. Now that I've done a 180 degree turn-around, all I care about is the WORD! For some reason, I can't watch the TV ministries anymore. Although I constantly stay in the word now, I started asking the Lord "Where is there anyone out there that will discuss all things bible with me?" I woke up one morning and had a strong urge to do a Google search for the words "Christian Forums"... hence, I found WCF almost immediately. Boy... here's where I'm really nervous... an experience I had a few days ago... I WANT TO BELIEVE concerns the people here on WCF but I don't fully understand what this is all about. Maybe you can help me and see where it goes from here. Otherwise, may it simply die and I'll know that I've spoken from my own vain imagination and, I HOPE the Lord will have mercy on my soul! A few days ago, while at work, I started dwelling on why it is that I have this chronic pain for so long now and wondering why I can't seem to believe the Lord for my own healing. It seems I can believe for others' healing but not my own. Some may already know the story of how my grandson's broken neck was healed after a time of "remote" prayer and how that event helped turn me back to seeking God. Anyway, shortly after dwelling on this thought, I slowly but surely started to feel an immense "sadness" in my spirit. I started grieving inside and was afraid I might start crying in front of my fellow workers. I often secluded myself to get composure. I felt this intense grieving the whole time driving home from work. I pulled in my driveway and sat in my Jeep for awhile wondering about this sadness I was feeling. I almost started weeping because something was building in me. I looked up and saw some water flowing on the ground next to my house after a snow melt was going on... we've had some recent heavy snowfall out here in Utah. As I stared at the water, I had some sort of peace come over me and I heard the words... "TELL MY PEOPLE TO COME TO THE WATERS OF MERIBAH FOR TIMES OF REFRESHMENT AND STRENGTH." This message in my head, heart or spirit... I don't know... was so strong I couldn't shake it off! I didn't recall ever hearing the word MERIBAH!!! On top of that, I thought, tell who? I'm nobody. I wouldn't even know who to tell!! I whispered the question "Who do I tell?" Immediately following were the words "THE PEOPLE ON WCF." I thought to myself... "YEAH, I can see me doing that... they'll think I'm NUTS! Afterward, I went to the basement. Sat on the couch and just quietly sat there wondering what was wrong with me. I must admit, the feeling was very familiar but I hadn't felt this sort of burden or sense of sadness for a very long time. Out of nowhere and from deep down inside me, I broke out in tongues (sorry if that offends anyone). It was like a dam had burst open. It didn't last long but afterward, as plain as day... Psalm 88 was on my mind. I didn't find Psalm 88 to be very comforting but it sure spoke to my heart about my situation and circumstance as to why I've been suffering for so long. It scared me to be honest but commentaries I read about this Psalm helped when they all stressed how we should never give up on seeking the Lord no matter how dismal things may look. What really helped was hearing how God may afflict his children at times for a greater pupose, albeit unbeknown to them. Some commentaries pointed to how this chapter points to the extreme suffering of Christ and how his sole mission for coming to earth was to suffer and die for our sins. An example is found in this extraction below from Matthew Henry's commentary: Probably the psalmist described his own case, yet he leads to Christ. Thus are we called to look unto Jesus, wounded and bruised for our iniquities. But the wrath of God poured the greatest bitterness into his cup. This weighed him down into darkness and the deep. (Ps 88:10-18) What I found most comforting was how Psalm 88 has been regarded as most likely the "SADDEST" chapter in the whole bible!! Up to this point, I've had no idea of what the word Meribah even meant until I started doing commentary searches on the internet. For the more scholarly, I'm sure it's all elemental and that everyone should know the story of Meribah is found in Numbers 20. I've known of the story of how Moses struck the first rock at Horeb and it gushed out water and that he was supposed to "SPEAK" to the second rock but I never knew about the second place being called Meribah. Now I know! At Meribah (or Kadesh or both... not sure) the people again strove with Moses and God about whether or not he could provide water for them. Moses and Aaron went into the tabernacle and sought the Lord. As you know, the Lord told Moses to "SPEAK" this time to the rock but, he didn't - he smote the rock twice. Commentaries remark how God, in his mercy, still provided for his people but punished Moses and Aaron severely for not believing and sanctifying him before the people. The commentaries tell of how God holds his leaders to a much higher standard than that of the general congregation. I've wondered, if I really did hear the words, "TELL MY PEOPLE TO COME TO THE WATERS OF MERIBAH FOR TIMES OF REFRESHMENT AND STRENGTH.", and this saying was for WCF, why would people come to a place like that where contention and strife caused Moses to sin and strike the rock instead of speak to it. After reading some of the commentaries about the importance of how God wanted Moses to simply believe and SPEAK for provision and how commentators explained the importance of how people should simply SPEAK with God about what they need, maybe that's the idea behind people here at WCF coming to the waters of Mirabah for refreshment and strength. There seems to be some here on this site that are doubting their position in Christ way too much - as if they are basing their faith on their performance with God instead of simply trusting him and speaking to him for what they need. I truly do believe we don't have to beat the rock to get what we need out of him but, instead, simply believe and trust him to do what he promises. 8 But what does it say?

Oh how I remember what the suffering felt like. I too felt very alone even knowing the Lord was right by my side but it was so very hard to not have the closeness, companionship of a warm, in-the-flesh human being next to me like I was so accustomed to having but PLEASE do NOT make the same mistakes I did. Suffice to say... in the end... you'll be soooooo glad to have remained faithful to the Lord I started dwelling on wanting her back. Unfortunately, I started wanting her back even though she wasn't a believer and I KNOW that she had been unfaithful to me sexually. I was so lonely, so desperate for companionship that I left the Lord and started running with other women. My salvation was so phenomenal. The presence of God was so strong in my life but that all seemed to leave quite quickly as I slipped into chasing women "of the world." Like David, I definitely lost the "joy of my salvation!" For quite some time I felt Godly sorrow for my sexual immorality and a strong "drawing" attempting to pull me back to the Lord but the cares of this life were more important to me and definitely "choking out the word!" A verse that started coming to me over and over again that applied to the combination of what was happening in my life... dwelling on wanting my wife back and attempting to ease my pain by living in such debauchery - started haunting me! Jeremiah 3:1 1

Ahhhh... your're a lovely sister in Christ and I so appreciate your prayers but, believe it or not, I'm extremely grateful to God for this infirmity. That may go against the grain for some in the "faith movement" like I used to be but this nerve disorder and the miracle of my grandson's broken neck has worked out for the good causing me to return to the Father of Spirits that I may LIVE! Also... 2 Cor 7:11 11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

For the down and out and discouraged a story of inspiration Extracted from his website: It is a great privilege to welcome you to the Life Without Limbs.org website. My name is Nick Vujicic and I'm 25 years old. I was born without arms or legs and given no medical reason for this condition. Faced with countless challenges and obstacles, God has given me the strength to surmount what others might call impossible. Along with that, the Lord has placed within me an unquenchable passion to share this same hope and genuine love that I

I have really come to believe that God sees us through rose colored (blood tinted) glasses. I heard a preacher two nights ago tell of a vision received after questioning whether or not prayer should go forth for certain individuals within a church to enter into the ministry. The preacher really felt reluctant to pray when comparing them, western believers, to others known throughout the world and what they go through versus desciples in this country. As the preacher reluctantly started to pray, a strong vision came of a pitiful scene where Christ's bride was approaching him in a very awkward manner. The bride was seen as a skinny woman who couldn't fill out the wedding gown. Her hair was disheveled and up in some terrible looking bun with hair all disarrayed spilling out all over the place. The brides face was all covered in pimples with her makeup all smeared suggesting the bride's inexperience and youthful innocence. The bride was seen walking clumsily toward the bridegroom - stepping all over her oversize wedding gown dragging her long train. She kept staggering, tripping, stumbling and falling and getting back up again and persistently kept laboring in the direction of the bridegroom. Even though the bride of Christ looked pretty pathetic, the preacher heard the Lord's words, "Do you see how magnificent my bride is in all her radiant beauty?" The preacher was dumbfounded! Radiant beauty? She was a mess in his estimation! As soon as the preacher heard the Lord's question and he pondered what this could all mean, he then saw a great tidal wave of the blood of Christ issue forth from the bridegroom racing toward the young bride engulfing her entirely with a great crash of tidal wave. Then, the bride no longer staggered. She no longer tripped. She no longer stumbled and fell but, instead, walked with confidence and grace looking like the most beautiful beauty queen or experienced runway super model the preacher could ever imagine. Her skinny figure evolved into the most curvaceous body one had ever seen totally filling every inch of her gown. Her hair looked combed with angel's combs styled by heavenly cosmotologists - most beautiful in every way. The skin on her face was so smooth without any pimples whatsoever and her makeup in place and perfect. Her eyes twinkled and sparkled with starlight as she approached ever closer to the bridegroom. The bride gently placed her hands into the bridegroom's hands, slowly turned around facing the preacher. She suddenly glowed with dazzling radiance! Again, the preacher heard the Lord's words... "Do you see how magnificent my bride is in all her radiant beauty?"

I appreciate your reply to me in what I perceive is humility because I have labored over my reply to you because I thought afterward how I wish I had not clicked on the "Add Reply" button and sent something so harsh. I still believe you are my brother and I am yours because we both believe in the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. However, and I know it's MY OPINION, I have come to the conclusion you have set your face as flint and you are very adamant (

Do verses 1Cor7:10-11 not apply? It was always my understanding that God's ultimate desire is that two people would stay together and not seek a divorce when reading Matt 19:7-9 7 They said to Him,