Michael.

I happen to enjoy reading Plato's dialogs of Socrates. If you find something untrue in the words of his that i quoted, please let me know. Do you think a person should live an unexamined life? Nope, I just think that His words are the ones we should be studying, not any of mans. I find more wisdom in Gods words than I would ever find in mans. That is the problem with Sola Scriptura, the early Church Fathers used oral as well as written. Funny tho, that to the early Church fathers and Christians alike, the bible recounted the history of the church and of Christ, it wasn't the sole means of knowing, understanding, and promoting God until the protestants cut off all the branches of the tree and held fast to the trunk. God did not leave a bible when he went to heaven, he left his apostles and his oral tradition. The bible came hundreds of years later. So when you feel the need dear protestants to hold onto your bibles, please remember to thank the Council of Carthage for giving you that book.

I have been under the instruction of people who actually cast demons out of people as a part of their ministry (only they call it "Deliverance"). They testify that demons can still twist the truth while not actually lying. Rule number [whatever] when casting out demons: you don't command them to tell the truth. You command them to keep quiet. That's what Jesus did. Ya, I have been studying alot lately on the subject. Fr. Amorth states that he does not like it when demons want to chat, he shuts them right up. However he does also order them to speak in regards to who they are and how many they are and also repeat Jesus' name as well as force them to pray. You should google him sometime, he has around 60,000 under his belt. I am not looking to get into the deliverance business, I think I will leave that up to other people that God chooses to use as instruments. I'd probably jump out of my skin if I came face to face with a demon.

Dave I agree with you for the most part! Exorcisms are carried out in Jesus name, I have rarely seen the host used to cast out demons in as far as the bit of research I have performed on the subject. However, I do not think that God would have a problem with someone using his body and word to remove a demon from a possessed person. I was merely using that case as an example that the Demon who during an exorcism cannot lie when he is invoked to tell the truth in Jesus' name, therefore his understanding of the consecrated host vs the non consecrated host attests to the validity of the Catholic standing. I think you misunderstood my reasoning behind posting that example. Pax, Michael Mike, Here's the problem, the testimony of a demon isn't worth anything. As a matter of fact when a demon posessed woman was following Paul stating an obvious fact, he silenced it under the direction of the Holy Spirit. Jesus did the same and Paul was following suit because these were not the proper heralds of the Gospel Truth such as they would likely take advantage and pervert it even as we see in the Church today. That's the problem with your reference, it is the testimony of a demon and thus subject at best. Peace, Dave Dave, I can understand your tepidity towards this, however can you explain to me why then the protestant ministers couldn't cast out the demon and when they tried further the demon laughed and them and told them that they held no power over him that they were his slaves? I see my link was removed up there regarding the youtube video, however there is too many historical facts pertaining to the body of Christ to discount it. Pax, Michael

Dave I agree with you for the most part! Exorcisms are carried out in Jesus name, I have rarely seen the host used to cast out demons in as far as the bit of research I have performed on the subject. However, I do not think that God would have a problem with someone using his body and word to remove a demon from a possessed person. I was merely using that case as an example that the Demon who during an exorcism cannot lie when he is invoked to tell the truth in Jesus' name, therefore his understanding of the consecrated host vs the non consecrated host attests to the validity of the Catholic standing. I think you misunderstood my reasoning behind posting that example. Pax, Michael

I read through this account, and there is one thing mentioned that bothers me: "In the days that followed this initially successful exorcism, Nicole was repeatedly repossessed. Each time, only the host was effective in exorcising the demon." Note the bolded part. Demons are masters of deception. This makes me wonder if the demons actually left her. As far as anyone can tell, they were playing a game with everyone, making them think there was something special about the consecrated bread, when in fact there was not. Did a demon ever repossess a person that Jesus cast out? This is the only passage that I found in the bible containing a person that was exorcised and recieved a demon again. Mt 12:43-45. I don't think that once someone is exorcised that they are locked down from all evil, I think they are more likely to be repossessed again if they allow themselves to fall back into a bad sin or practice another evil. However, I do know of many exorcisms where the devil/demons will pretend to leave in hopes that the person exorcising them will leave thinking they won the battle. I just found another passage talking about the demon coming back and being worse than the original in the previously possessed person. Luke 11:24-26

I read through this account, and there is one thing mentioned that bothers me: "In the days that followed this initially successful exorcism, Nicole was repeatedly repossessed. Each time, only the host was effective in exorcising the demon." Note the bolded part. Demons are masters of deception. This makes me wonder if the demons actually left her. As far as anyone can tell, they were playing a game with everyone, making them think there was something special about the consecrated bread, when in fact there was not. Did a demon ever repossess a person that Jesus cast out? This is the only passage that I found in the bible containing a person that was exorcised and recieved a demon again. Mt 12:43-45. I don't think that once someone is exorcised that they are locked down from all evil, I think they are more likely to be repossessed again if they allow themselves to fall back into a bad sin or practice another evil. However, I do know of many exorcisms where the devil/demons will pretend to leave in hopes that the person exorcising them will leave thinking they won the battle.

On the spiritual warfare side of things. I highly recommend that you get a minister out to bless your house or pray over it. On the note of blessing the house yourself, you could get a bottle of holy water and sprinkle it around your house as you pray for deliverance. I would also recommend going to each window and door and saying an our father as you pray to seal all exits and protect your house from any evil presence. I had something similiar in my last house and we had a Priest come out who said a mass in our house and after that we never had another bad experience, all the knocking stopped and everything calmed down.

I don't want to sound like a donkey over here, but you have a right to protect your children and their innocense from this woman who is misguided and living in a sin that will bring terrible consequences to her and those that regard her with politically correct eyes. As a Christian, we are taught to hate the sin, but love the sinner. Lay down the rules, she does not have to be banned from your house, but you as a mother have a responsibility to protect your children from her and her partner. Invite her over, but tell her that you would rather her leave her lover at home b/c your children don't need or deserve a bad example or influence. A person that is living in that type of sin has a large following of demons and I would not want that type of danger entering my home. I hope this helps, I am not wanting to sound bad or mean, but you do need to protect yourself.

I believe that we see the angel telling him that he is not to worship the angel, but only God. Many people over the years since Christ that have had an experience with an angel have been so entralled by their beauty that they have bowed to them and the angel has admonished these people to not worship them, but only God. The Angel is also saying that he is not mighty, that he is a servant of the God most high just as this man is. Those that keep the words of the bible are the ministers of the church. "And he said to me: See thou do it not. For I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets and of them that keep the words of the prophecy of this book. Adore God." The angel is a servant to all who serve God.

Hey Joe, I remember reading a book back in college about an exorcism that occured back in 1566 in France. The exorcism was of a girl named Audrey I believe who at first had an apparition of a soul who wanted to be released from Purgatory and then this demon who was tricking her possessed her. She went before a group of protestant ministers and they tried everything they could to release her from the demon. However, they could not and the demon just laughed at them calling them his slaves. Then the ministers took one of their hosts from communion and they put it in front of the girls face and the demon laughed again at them saying that the host that they held contained no power of it since it was not the true body of Christ, they did not have the power to consecrate it and the demon continued to curse them and laugh. The protestant ministers called in a Dominican Priest and some other local clergy who came in and confronted the demon. They brought in a consecrated Eucharistic host and laid it before the demon who immediately screemed and yelled about it, saying this was the true body of Christ and he would leave the girl if only they took the host off. Many of the protestants witnessing the exorcism converted including some of the clergy. I searched for this on google for about an hour before finding a link. I have not read the link in its entirety, however I think it does give some historical reference that this exorcism did indeed take place. Here is the link: http://etext.virginia.edu/journals/EH/EH35/cunn1.html ABC's 20/20 did a report on exorcism and they witnessed one live - you can see in this too that the woman possessed is being exorcised with a host near her face as well. *edit links* With the power of our DNA technology today, scientists have linked up a Eucharistic Miracle from the middle ages and have analyzed the blood that came from a consecrated host and have matched it with the Shroud of Turin. As a Catholic, I don't know what I would do without being able to recieve communion. For me it is not just a piece of bread, it is the body and blood of Christ and the abundant graces that I recieve from it keep me alive spiritually and physically. For a person who banks so much on the validicity of the bible and the absolute truth of it, I find it sad that protestants don't take Christ literally in one passage and then take another passage as literally when it is clearly allegory. You either believe the bible 100% or you don't. There shouldn't be any if/or/and's in there about what Jesus was saying in one passage vs another. If Jesus was able to multiply a few loaves of bread and fish to feed a crowd of 5,000 men not counting the women and childen, then wouldn't he also be able to multiply himself into his own creation? Jesus also caused great distress to his apostles when he told them that "Unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood you shall not have everlasting life". He repeated this 3 different ways to convince his disciples that what he was saying wasn't just allegory or comparative to something, it was just as he was saying. It is also interesting to note, that the last supper wasn't the first sacrifice containing bread and wine. In the old testament you can read on Malkiezedek who offered God bread and wine as a sacrifice which was very uncommon back then when animal sacrifice was the norm. I think I could go on about this topic forever, so I will just end it here. I hope this helps to answer a few questions as well as challenging you to dig further and research more on the validity of the Eucharist and what it really contains and not what you think it symbolizes. Pax Tecum, Michael

I agree. I don't think that we have much longer left to this world. I think God's wrath is about to break the bonds of his love for us and we are all going to "get" it because of the vast amount of sin in this world. I get road rage when I get cut off, I can't imagine what God feels like when he see's a gay parade marching down 5th and main past churches with people cheering them on.

Wow, I wish I had the fire you have! Thank you all for the replies to my post. You have no idea how much it helped me. I would love to have a study group in my house but the few friends that I have work a lot. I don't know of anyone that would come. Also, like someone said isolation is not the answer. I would start going first only or the preaching and than gradually try to stay longer. Again, thanks so much. LCevallos Dear Fellow Christians, I find this discussion very sad and depressing. Why? I feel this way, because I am hearing people who were blessed to find and know God in the Christian mantle, but do not enjoy going to see him once a week for a church service. Last week I attended my first protestant service and I can tell you it almost put me to sleep. I can see why you do not enjoy it, that is, if your service was anything like this one that I watched online. I was televised live out of N. Va from a bible church and for the first 20 minutes I witnessed a large theatre type group of people all standing and singing with a quasi heavy metal christian band as they banged away to the tune of "Jesus love me" and in the background I saw a big screen that had proverbs and verses on it during the song. Afterwards a person got on stage in plain clothing and gave a sermon on Muslims and how they are not Christian - ect... And then the screen went black and they invited everyone to come back next week. That was it. I was a little shocked and then felt that sadness that I am experiencing now. There is NO MEAT to your services. I know that is a braod term there, but if any of your services that you are bored with was like what I experienced, then no wonder you hate going to church. For you people out there that are bored, take a look at how the early church fathers celebrated their services and then compare that to modern day church services and see what the difference is. My first observation from my experience was this - Where is Jesus? Jesus should be the center of the service. Where was a cross? There should be a cross (a big one) in the middle center church to show that we as a people are focused and centered on Christ. Where was the sermon? I heard about the muslims, not about Christ. Where was the Eucharist? I didn't see anyone do as Jesus commanded at the Last supper. Where was the sacrifice? None, instead there was loud music and cheering. Where was the prayer? I don't think i even heard the congregation say the Our Father. Where was the beauty? I saw a big colloseum that was empty of just about everything that would identify it with Christianity. I'm not going to tell you where to go to church or what to look for. But I will tell you that if you are bored with it, you need to find a place that matches what the bible calls for in a religious service and not a stage performance. Pax Christi, Michael