fromIslam2Christ

12 And He said, “Do not lay your hand on the lad, or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.” 13 Then Abraham lifted his eyes and looked, and there behind him was a ram caught in a thicket by its horns. So Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up for a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of the place, The-LORD-Will-Provide; as it is said to this day, “In the Mount of the LORD it shall be provided.” (edited to add the reference : GENESIS 22) I was attending a Bible study back in february when the pastor said that this has some kind of "prophetic" meaning. He said there is a mystery in the fact that Abraham lifted his eyes and looked and saw "behind" him. Some sort of past-present-future connection of some sort. He kind of threw it at us without elaborating. I wrote it down and now months later I found it. I was wondering if anyone ever thought about this passage and the meaning of this? I understand the ram is also symbolic of Jesus... also the only son of God. What interests me here is the "behind". Normally, when you lift up your eyes, you look in front of you, or at least, above you.

Thanks, man! Edited to add the Bible verse that's been on my heart all day. Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.

right,.... taking them off might make a difference!!!

I have been watching a lot of African Christian movies lately (my secret hobby, I guess ) and in many of them, the Christian main character needs to decide about a job or a spouse etc and prays and gets this clear as day answer from God! In my experience, when I have prayed to God for guidance on a decision, I have not gotten a clear-cut answer, but rather, I would get additional informaiton that help me make an intelligent decision based on my own limited wisdom. Some Christians have told me that you know that the decision is God's will because you get a sense of peace in your heart.... But in the past I have gotten a "sense of peace" about sinful/ungodly activities !!! Typically, I get the following advice:" God and pray and God will tell you what to do." In the movies, God seems to tell them LIVE, like a voice speaking to them etc... Which is kind of cool I tend to lean on the sober side here of looking for God's will in the Word. Looking at the Bible and seeing what God wants for his children: who to marry, what kind of job to hold or not to hold, and how to make a decision. Am I missing something here? Is there a voice we are supposed to hear clearly in our head? I have read books by certain pastors who say they heard God speak to them clear as day with full sentences...

Thank you, all the responses are enlightening! I found a commentary in my study Bible (in French-- Semeur translation) that explains it the same way most of you do. It says that either the Rock refers to the confession that Peter made, or that it refers to Christ himself as being the Rock. I guess what confused me is the way He seems to be addressing Peter the apostle. That's the downside about having to read the Bible in a translation, instead of the original language, right? Neb, I couldn't find the discussion you referred to, which might prove quite helpful.... Thanks though, i'll keep looking.

I just visited it, thanks for the link Neb. Interesting.

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (KJV) And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (ESV) So my question is, how do I understand this verse? This verse has always been mysterious to me in meaning. Tying this to the "Tend my sheep" injunctions made to Peter at the last appearance of Jesus, is Jesus here appointing Peter as the leader and foundation of the church, as the Catholic Church claims? Or is there a different meaning? In Acts, Paul doesn't seem to see Peter as authority. Rather, James appears to have the last word on decisional matters.... I would really appreciate feedback on this.

How about replacing this day with: "Share-the-Gospel-with-a-Muslim" day? or "Invite your Muslim neighbour over for tea and Bible study" day? "Pray with a Muslim over his/her needs in Jesus' name" day? It has worked pretty well for us so far here in Canada, by the way... My friend Nancy, who has been a missionary in North Africa for 15 years, told us this story. This young Muslim woman, who was very devout, had bene unemployed for a while and was very worried because she couldn't earn a living. Nancy had been sharing the Gospel with her for a while now. One day, as the young woman was confiding in Nancy about how worried she was and how her relatives wanted to marry her off, Nancy offered: "I'll pray for you." The young woman seemed indifferent at first. But when Nancy actually took her hands in hers, looked her in the eye and told her, "Let's do it NOW", she gladly said yes. Nancy told her: "I am going to pray now for you. And I will pray in the name of Jesus." Then Nancy prayed and the young woman was moved to tears by the prayer. She told Nancy she never heard such heartfelt prayer before! A few months later, the young Muslim woman ran to Nancy and told her "Your Jesus is real! He is real! I got a job right after you prayed for me, employers started calling me!"

I know that you have greater insight into islam than most of us, sister. Do you think that maybe hesitant muslims might come forward and toss their Qu'rans into the fire if they are shown support for their salvation by this church? You left islam.....what helped you take that last step toward freedom? Dear sis MorningGlory, in my own experience, when i became revolted by Islam and its teachings, I was in awe with how Christians are loving and peaceful people. I realized the Christian God doesn,t need his followers to burn, kill, destroy to defend His doctrines and views. The power of Christ is in the way Christians will just fight with prayer as opposed to swords. That left me in awe and I knew that what Christians had, I wanted to have. When the Da Vinci Code was shown in theaters, no Christian went and burned the theaters down, and there was no public burning of the book, or DVD. When the cartoons about Muhammad were published, look at the burning and destruction Muslims did. Look at how the movie producer Van Gogh's throat was slit in broad daylight because he made the movie "Submission." As Christians, this is the one thing that sets us apart from others: that Our God is Mighty enough to handle and settle His own accounts. This is my own opinion. If I were a Muslim today, and sawChristians burning the Qur'an, I would never try to open a Bible to find out what Christianity says. As for Muslims who want to leave Islam but are afraid, they definitely would never dare to participate in a Quran burning. It is frightening enough having to come out of the closet with a peaceful statement of love... Imagine coming out of the closet by burning a Qur'an with a bunch on non-Musliims? You would be dead by the end of the day... What helped me was knowing that my weapons weren't carnal, but that I would pray and act by the Spirit. The Spirit is who strengthens us to come out of the closet and declare our faith. (Not by might, not by power, but by the Spirit of God). I am no expert. I only speak from my own opinion.

The question is: What would Jesus do? I agree with Candice 100% and I liked Nebula's example of things Jesus did to address evil. I certainly hope Christians will abstain from participating in this as it would completely destroy many of our brethren's efforts to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with Muslims.

Well my debit card with a chip still got "cloned".

This just happened to me last month!!!! Someone used a copy/cloning device while I was swiping my debit card, and made a replica of my debit card. My bank fraud department was smart enough to block my card right away and to call me. The crook withdrew huge amounts from my account within 24 hours. Thank God, I have a new debit card now. But yes, my bank people warned me against using it at convenience stores, gas pumps. Also they said places where there are lots of cashiers.... Because all the person has to do it get one of those devices that allow them to actually copy the information from the magnetic band....

The Aramaic Targum was translated by Jews who hadn't recognized the Messiah. When Jesus said that He had come to fulfill the Law, I understand it to mean also that it is Jesus the Messiah who gives its full meaning to all Scriptures. I believe that the Old Testament becomes CLARIFIED through Jesus. So when we look at Jewish(non messianic) interpretation of the Old Testament, we need to remember they are missing a big chunk of the full Truth (i.e. Jesus = The Way, the Truth, and The Life). I agree with all that to understand who the "Our" was referring to, we have to look at Jesus and what He taught us about God: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

I think the dream is a warning. The devil is always roaring like a lion around us, looking for a prey to devour. That being said, I would put the dream aside and re-focus on God's Word and His promises to his children. The devil only tries too distract us from what is important. We as Christians know that Jesus the Christ has accomplished everything on the cross and that he has permanently defeated the powers of the darkness. As a child of God, I would read again Bible passages that remind you of the foundation of our faith. The one who is in us is stronger than the one who is in the world. Righteousness, assurance of our salvation through Christ, love, justice, faith, and the Word of God.... all these elements make for the mighty armor of God (Ephesians 6 : 10-17).

Brother, maybe you need to pray for discernment about where those standards you have set for your "future" wife have come from... Because at this rate, and with this approach, I am afraid marriage is not an option for you. Maybe try to look at yourself, and who you are as a person, and find out what has gone wrong with you all these years, as opposed to putting all the blame on the "used merchandise" who have made "excuses"... the view you hold of women is very problematic... It reminds me of the way many men view women in the part of the world I come from... Are you without sin? Are you so perfect that you would meet all the standards of a potential husband? Is there a person from your childhood/past that you are comparing every woman you meet to?? Are you angry at that woman figure in your life and therefore punishing the women you meet?? Anger and resentment are not of God. I think you need some introspection and some work on yourself. Only after you have worked out critical issues, will you be ready for marriage. I encourage counseling with a therapist or with a pastor. Also I invite you to study Bible marriages (Abraham and Sarah -- who lacked in faith and laughed --, Jacob and Rachel-- who kept idols in her belongings --, David and Bethsheba, Hosea's marriage, Lot and his wife, Job and his wife) and see for yourself if all "your" standards are being met by any woman (or man for that matter)!! Marriage is based on daily forgiveness, mutual understanding, compassion, and humility. At least, lasting marriages are. Your post shows that you are NOT ready for that kind of unconditional love/daily forgiveness relationship yet. 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 : Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. That was my piece, but already wiser members like Ladypeartree, Ayinjade, and LadyC, MorningGlory (who by the way are married and have experience) made good points that will help you. God bless you.

AMEN, AMEN LadyC... All wisdom here in this post. I couldn't have said or thought it better.

Then I can't wait for her to SUE that university! ... And what is it about forcing her to attend a gay parade??? What is next?

My appologies for not answering sooner. I missed seeing your post until just now. In answer to your question about the poem, those are four of fifty-seven verses in my "Bible Poem", and yes, I wrote it. Wow. I would love to read the whole "Bible Poem" you wrote... The few verses you shared on this board make me want to see more!!!

I am at a loss for words.... And "this" America wants to spead "freedom" in Afghanistan and Iraq, when Christians in their own countries can't express their faith or believe in peace!!!!

Get ya, brother Parker!! We're on the same wavelength.

Welcome to Worthy JHM!! I really like that poem! May I ask who wrote it? Thanks. I think with time and as science develops, more and more proof will be discovered that will confirm what the Bible tells us. It is a matter of time.

Things aren't that simple. We have to be careful not to apply our cultural Eurocentric worldview on other cultures. For many young girls in poor countries, sex before marriage is not something they "choose" but something that happens for various reasons: need for food, need for shelter, need for protection, etc... Secondly, you have to understand that in many cultures, men have many wives/concubines and in the case of migrant workers that have to live far from their homes for years at a time, resorting to taking another woman, or hiring prostitutes is common. Now, when they come back home with the virus and have sex with the wife who has been waiting.... AIDS is a huge risk. I know that for many Westerners who live in countries where food is readily avaible, safety and security are provided by the government and institutions, and there is a system of minimum wage, people from poorer countries appear "STUPID". God help us. I just pray you never have to experience living in more difficult Third world and lower class position.

YET what is impossible to man is possible to God!! Aren't some of us proof of that??

Very interesting thread Agua! I also agree with you both, because many JW and Mormons don,t know the real Gospel of Jesus. I think they are different from former Christians who twist Scriptures to create their own doctrines with it even though they knew what the Truth was. So I think showing JW and Mormons the truth about Jesus and salvation is very important. I know a man from my former church who has spent the past 25 years witnessing to JW and he always invited them over to his home when they knocked. I think them coming to our door is definitely an opportunity to witness with the help of the Holy Spirit. Of course, I wouldnt encourage a Christian who isnt knowledgeable about the scriptures or who is not strong in their faith. Because I have heard that JWs tend to know "their" Bible like the back of their hand. My humble opinion.