Wrench

Case and point!

I'll concede to that. My words and my tone are usualy "confrontational". It's never my intention, but apparently that's my personality. Many people have a problem not so much with what I say but how I say them and sometimes the words I choose. I don't tend to sugar coat things and I don't beat around the bush. I'm often straight to the point and cut to the chase, (so to speak) and attack the subject head on and with full force. Maybe my emotions get invovled, I don't know. Perhaps I should let people on this forum get to know me a little better before I make statements such as the one on this topic. You're right in this aspect, I may not have helped the situation. My presentation did seem more like a bulldozer rather than a dove, so I appologize for that. You're also correct that this subject did hit a nerve with me. It's a subject that I think is sad. It always amazes me that it's even a concern and I get very frustrated that people still have to deal with this issue. Blessings to you.

This statement makes you out to be just that, ignorant and arrogant. Up to that point, you were ok. I see where you're commin from. Honestly. But, racism is racism. Hate is Hate. It's not different than any other sin. If you're repentant and struggling it's a different story as we all have our struggles. However,, My comment stands and I don't recan't this. If it touched a nerve then good, I hope it benifits you. It didn't benefit me, thank you very much. Any benefit your comments prior to the ignorant/arrogant part may have had was lost. I would imagine especially for yesult. But, we all answer to a higher power, know what I mean? First off my reply was not directed at anyone specific. But, you have a problem with the last line. Now look at it for all the worth and what is meant by it and how it's biblical. Now, if you walked into a church and listened to a preacher and he was preachin good stuff. You thought he was on fire, the word of God seemed to flow like water from his lips. Then at the end of the sermon the preacher man decided to say a prayer. And the prayer went something like this. "Lord, please keep our white race pure and don't let our women and daughters marry XXXXXX or XXXXXX" Would you go back to the church? I doubt it. So by you not going back and being offended, would you not be cutting him off from the Body of Christ? Now, by me saying that a racist is hindering the entire human race, wouldn't you agree? Spreading hate is wrong. So, since someone is a hatemongor and spreading hate and hating someone does that not try to thwart the plans of the Almighty? Certainly it does. People causing seperation based on skin is completely arrogant and ignorant. What's the difference between a drunk and a racist? Nothing, that's why I say sin is sin,,, Jesus was talking about one man doing this sin and another man doing that sin, and asked if the one was greater than the other and said, NO, one didn't sin greater than the other. I can't remember where it was. Just as paul says, "If you break one part of the law you are guilty of breaking all of it." Mathew 5 But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: 1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortionist; with such an one no not to eat. So, there you have it. This proves what I was saying. However the below verse proves another thing I was saying,, "If the person is repentant but struggling, it's a different story" Galatians 6:1 Brothers, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted. So, if someone was a brother and get's caught then those who are able should go help them. If you're offended, that truely wasn't my intention. But apparently it struck a nerve, and I think that's a good thing. However, I still stand by what I gave. And the point of the matter is good and in no way makes me arrogant or ignorant.

This statement makes you out to be just that, ignorant and arrogant. Up to that point, you were ok. I see where you're commin from. Honestly. But, racism is racism. Hate is Hate. It's not different than any other sin. If you're repentant and struggling it's a different story as we all have our struggles. However,, My comment stands and I don't recan't this. If it touched a nerve then good, I hope it benifits you.

Pretty simple. "In Christ there is no Jew or Gentile, Greek or Roman" There are all kinds of examples in the bible of men marrying outside of race. From Abraham all the way up the line. A good example would be Solomon. Another good one Sampson, who married an "enemy woman". The only reason people think it's even wrong or that God set borders for the races is ignorance and arrogance. When the bible talks about the tower of Babbel it has nothin to do with race or languages. The people themselves were banding together against God. So in order for the Lord to preserve the belief in His soverignty and power he caused them to be seperate, by scattering them accross the globe and confusing their languages. So, by that you get other races also because of the plain ol genetics of people commin from one place, etc. When the Bible talks about God set the boundaries for man, it has nothing to do with continents,, It's talking about the physical and metaphysical, spiritual and carnal. So, we as humans can't travel to the heavenlies. Now,, anyone else wanna be ignorant or arrogant? If it pleases you to have seperation of races, be it coultural or marriage,, the by all means, seperate yourselves from the Body of Christ as you do nothing but hider the entire human race and try to twart Gods plan. If you have a problem with race you are a thorn in everyones side and bringing everyone down.

I agree. The biggest hurdle right now is we have a new generation. Let's face it most of us (30 and under) ain't into the old hyms with the durge tonics. So we get new music. Just because the older way of church is sing "how great thou art" in a slow droning doesn't inspire worship for some people. Nothing wrong with the old hymns, but they were designed for a time and for a generation. The Lord does inspire people in other ways. Not every church needs to be a sit down hands on your knees service. Different coultures worship differently. Why should the younger generation feel the need to continue in a way that's not inspirational to them? Another thing,, Believers shouldn't leave it to the preacher man to feed them the word of God. Although I do appreciate a good well planned and Holy Spirit inspired sermon. On the otherhand.. The building where we congregate should have some order to it. During service I believe there should be quiet reverence. (I'm a quiet reverence kinda guy anyway) But, it should be quiet while the preacher man is talking. Worship time should be organaized to a point, but not just "let's stand and sing" and sing a song wrote in the 1400's. Jump if you want, sing if you want, don't jump if you don't want and don't sing if you don't want. Worship is subjective to the person giving worship. I do believe the building is a place for all of us to come together have some fun, edify eachother, have bible studies, and fellowship, and good clean conversation. Everytime we get together it should be a fun time. But, as Paul says, "Everything in moderation" Having a concession stand is pretty silly to me. And people just runnin around like a school social isn't such a good thing while the word is being taught. I think it's a great idea to have a place people can and want to come hang out. How many churches do you see have their 1 hour service, then everyone rushes out the door and rarely says a word to another. Some might mingle for a while. And the preacherman stands at the door waiting on handshakes and he can't even look you in the eye and call you by name. In my opinion as long as the word of God is being taught, and there is order and structure, I don't care how you do things, and the Lord doesn't eather.

The use of "I will never leave thee of forsake thee" is attributed to Jesus by the writer of Hebrews 13 and is not in context of Jesus and "His bride" AT ALL. Using the church/marriage analogy is a time honored flaw...because it is just an analogy. Like always, it is just an example to break a point down into understandable basics. Trying to tie all marriages under God is just as ridiculous as trying to say that ALL churches are the bride of Christ. You also failed to mention in your splice and dice of scripture that the "Let not man put asunder" is specifically refering to marriges that God has put together. Certainly you are not going to claim that God is responsible for ALL marriages. I'll kindly thank you to show me how I've done anything other than blame myself for my failed marriage...I have NEVER blamed the "other one" inspite of the fact that I am biblically supported in doing so. It seems your only purpose on this thread is to cast judgement by using out of context, mix-n-match patches of scripture. I think the marriage analogy does just fine. It's not a misconception. It's used allthrough the bible. The church called the bride, Such a bad analogy I guess the Lord should take it out of his book? Revelation 19:9 And he said to me, Write, Blessed are they which are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he said to me, These are the true sayings of God. There's more all through the bible, just have a look. All marriages between believers are under God. And the "Let man not put asunder" was directly dealing with divorce. There are only a couple reasons where divorce is okay in the Bible. No one is trying to beat you down on anything. But the word of God is not subjective and you can't just make it anything you want and think it's okay. I don't know the circumstances in your marriage. I only know what the word of God says, and that's between you and him. All that being said,, You can either believe the Bible, or believe anyones interpretation just to make yourself feel better. (I say this to everyone, not just you) I think it would be a great fantastic Idea if most of the people on this forum decided to go read their Bibles once and a while and find out what it says. Then we wouldn't have so many questions, and so many disagreements. If the bible says 2 plus 2 is 4, that means, that if you add 2 and 2 together you get exactly 4,, not sometimes 6, or 8 on sunday, or even an invisible 9 during passover. It's clear cut for those who believe. But, if you have itching ears, there's plenty out there and on this very forum that'll scratch them for you. I'm done dealing with this subject. I believe there's been good Scriptural reference on here. So now everyone is without excuse. Blessings to you!

Who said that??? Name one person on this thread that has said that! I'll answer for you... No One!! No one said "I'm just not happy in my relationship" on this board. That's what alot of people say when they get divorced. So......... I don't know what your problem is, so I'll chalk it up to a misunderstanding.

Having a golbal currency will place equality to all nations. In theory. It will also put a stop to fluctuating money markets, such as currency purchacing and waiting for the lower value to raise in value then selling. So, by this they can closely control who has what and how much, rather than the markets to decide. Golbal currency makes perfect sense from the corporate world, seeing that the corporate world is without countries or boundaries. This would all work to their benifits. But,,, alas, they know not what they do. It's almost poetic how things are falling into place,, and all under the guise of peace and safety for all of us, or equality etc etc.. It makes sense for the corporations but not for fx market and the US dollar has been for years and still is the world currency. Blessings It would seem that way. But, think of the Euro,, as soon as it was established the value went up substantialy. If they put all our money in one pot the haves will have more. According to their theory the have nots will also have a little more. But, it wont work that way. It's all about control. You can't control country A when they have their own currency and markets. Country B is controled because they're under the Euro with a shared comodity. Bring country A into the same market as country B, and A is now under control.

Having a golbal currency will place equality to all nations. In theory. It will also put a stop to fluctuating money markets, such as currency purchacing and waiting for the lower value to raise in value then selling. So, by this they can closely control who has what and how much, rather than the markets to decide. Golbal currency makes perfect sense from the corporate world, seeing that the corporate world is without countries or boundaries. This would all work to their benifits. But,,, alas, they know not what they do. It's almost poetic how things are falling into place,, and all under the guise of peace and safety for all of us, or equality etc etc..

LOL, "till one messes up" That's the way it seems to some people. "I'm just not happy in my relationship" etc.. The word is clear. You're right! "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for any reason?" "It was not that way from the beginning" "I hate divorce says the Lord" "Therefore what God has joined together let no man put asunder" "The two shall become one flesh" "For this reason they will leave their mother and father and cleave to one another" "But I say to you, That whoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causes her to commit adultery: and whoever shall marry her that is divorced commits adultery." What about the Samaritan woman who Jesus said,, "Go get your husband" she said, "Sir I have no husband" He said, "That's right" She was married 5 times, and the only one that was or could've been was her original husband.

Maybe I should watch the news or read the papers then.

Do people still listen to the king of Rome? Does he still have that much authority? Seems to me he's become a babbling figurehead with wild ideas. Kinda like a 103 year old grandpa at christmas dinner.

Outlined in the Bible there are reasons for divorce. Divorce itself is not sinful. But, with every act divorce can be sinful. Biblical reasons for divorce are simple. Adultery,,, The only reason given where divorce will be allowed between 2 believers. Unbelivers aren't under any kind of covenant, and are not bound by marriage. Either to eachother or an unbeliever to a believer. The concessions given,,,, If the unbeliever can't live with the believer and wants to leave then let them, and the believer is free to remarry. The believer is not permitted to leave the unbeliever, because they don't know if they would save their spouse or not. If 2 believers are married and divorce, it's okay, as long as neither of them marry another. The only person they are allowed to remarry is the spouse they divorced. If a believer divorces their spouse and their spouse remarries, then the one who divorced caused the other to commit adultery. It's pretty simple, and it's not legalistic. It's the word of God and it's his perfect plan! Now, you can get legalistic, such as,, "Well, adultery is the only reason for divorce. So I divorced my wife, (even though she didn't commit adultery) and she married someone else, so she commited adultery and now I'm free from my marriage bondage." That is so disgustingly wrong on so many levels. But, if you look at it, you cause their sin, and their sin is also on your head. Of course the Lord will forgive you. Will your second marriage be recognised if everything was done outside of these guidelines? I don't know, there's evidence that it wont be. Now, I know there's a bunch of issues, such as abuse. But, just because your spouse is abusive doesn't merrit divorce. But, in the same sense,, a believer wouldn't be abusive. So, you may be within the guidelines of divorce, but as I've stated, divorce should come after years of seperation and prayer and perhaps counciling. Too many people divorce just because they're not having fun anymore. Their spouse is no longer entertaining. The newness wore off so they think they're not in love. Divorce is more often out of selfishness rather than goodness and holiness. I don't care if your wife gained 600lbs! I don't care if your husband is distant and cold! None of that matters! You made a vow to that person, to honor and LOVE before God and the Angels. You are bound to your word. You can talk all you want and try to justify all you want, but if you are outside the guidelines set in the Bible which is the Holy Word of God, then you are wrong, and against the Lords perfect plan for marriage. The following are Bible references (there are others but, I feel these 2 outline clearly for new covenant believers) Mathew 19, 1 Corinthians 7,

Dearest Arthur, I am fairly certain, were you to read the entire thread - that no one has stated that marriages are for "convenience". Who in the world thought marriage would be convient???? It's more convenient to try to catch a shark with balogna tied to your hand than to get married. (I should add, I do love my wife)