Wrench

Case and point!

I'll concede to that. My words and my tone are usualy "confrontational". It's never my intention, but apparently that's my personality. Many people have a problem not so much with what I say but how I say them and sometimes the words I choose. I don't tend to sugar coat things and I don't beat around the bush. I'm often straight to the point and cut to the chase, (so to speak) and attack the subject head on and with full force. Maybe my emotions get invovled, I don't know. Perhaps I should let people on this forum get to know me a little better before I make statements such as the one on this topic. You're right in this aspect, I may not have helped the situation. My presentation did seem more like a bulldozer rather than a dove, so I appologize for that. You're also correct that this subject did hit a nerve with me. It's a subject that I think is sad. It always amazes me that it's even a concern and I get very frustrated that people still have to deal with this issue. Blessings to you.

This statement makes you out to be just that, ignorant and arrogant. Up to that point, you were ok. I see where you're commin from. Honestly. But, racism is racism. Hate is Hate. It's not different than any other sin. If you're repentant and struggling it's a different story as we all have our struggles. However,, My comment stands and I don't recan't this. If it touched a nerve then good, I hope it benifits you. It didn't benefit me, thank you very much. Any benefit your comments prior to the ignorant/arrogant part may have had was lost. I would imagine especially for yesult. But, we all answer to a higher power, know what I mean? First off my reply was not directed at anyone specific. But, you have a problem with the last line. Now look at it for all the worth and what is meant by it and how it's biblical. Now, if you walked into a church and listened to a preacher and he was preachin good stuff. You thought he was on fire, the word of God seemed to flow like water from his lips. Then at the end of the sermon the preacher man decided to say a prayer. And the prayer went something like this. "Lord, please keep our white race pure and don't let our women and daughters marry XXXXXX or XXXXXX" Would you go back to the church? I doubt it. So by you not going back and being offended, would you not be cutting him off from the Body of Christ? Now, by me saying that a racist is hindering the entire human race, wouldn't you agree? Spreading hate is wrong. So, since someone is a hatemongor and spreading hate and hating someone does that not try to thwart the plans of the Almighty? Certainly it does. People causing seperation based on skin is completely arrogant and ignorant. What's the difference between a drunk and a racist? Nothing, that's why I say sin is sin,,, Jesus was talking about one man doing this sin and another man doing that sin, and asked if the one was greater than the other and said, NO, one didn't sin greater than the other. I can't remember where it was. Just as paul says, "If you break one part of the law you are guilty of breaking all of it." Mathew 5 But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: 1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortionist; with such an one no not to eat. So, there you have it. This proves what I was saying. However the below verse proves another thing I was saying,, "If the person is repentant but struggling, it's a different story" Galatians 6:1 Brothers, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted. So, if someone was a brother and get's caught then those who are able should go help them. If you're offended, that truely wasn't my intention. But apparently it struck a nerve, and I think that's a good thing. However, I still stand by what I gave. And the point of the matter is good and in no way makes me arrogant or ignorant.

This statement makes you out to be just that, ignorant and arrogant. Up to that point, you were ok. I see where you're commin from. Honestly. But, racism is racism. Hate is Hate. It's not different than any other sin. If you're repentant and struggling it's a different story as we all have our struggles. However,, My comment stands and I don't recan't this. If it touched a nerve then good, I hope it benifits you.

Pretty simple. "In Christ there is no Jew or Gentile, Greek or Roman" There are all kinds of examples in the bible of men marrying outside of race. From Abraham all the way up the line. A good example would be Solomon. Another good one Sampson, who married an "enemy woman". The only reason people think it's even wrong or that God set borders for the races is ignorance and arrogance. When the bible talks about the tower of Babbel it has nothin to do with race or languages. The people themselves were banding together against God. So in order for the Lord to preserve the belief in His soverignty and power he caused them to be seperate, by scattering them accross the globe and confusing their languages. So, by that you get other races also because of the plain ol genetics of people commin from one place, etc. When the Bible talks about God set the boundaries for man, it has nothing to do with continents,, It's talking about the physical and metaphysical, spiritual and carnal. So, we as humans can't travel to the heavenlies. Now,, anyone else wanna be ignorant or arrogant? If it pleases you to have seperation of races, be it coultural or marriage,, the by all means, seperate yourselves from the Body of Christ as you do nothing but hider the entire human race and try to twart Gods plan. If you have a problem with race you are a thorn in everyones side and bringing everyone down.

I agree. The biggest hurdle right now is we have a new generation. Let's face it most of us (30 and under) ain't into the old hyms with the durge tonics. So we get new music. Just because the older way of church is sing "how great thou art" in a slow droning doesn't inspire worship for some people. Nothing wrong with the old hymns, but they were designed for a time and for a generation. The Lord does inspire people in other ways. Not every church needs to be a sit down hands on your knees service. Different coultures worship differently. Why should the younger generation feel the need to continue in a way that's not inspirational to them? Another thing,, Believers shouldn't leave it to the preacher man to feed them the word of God. Although I do appreciate a good well planned and Holy Spirit inspired sermon. On the otherhand.. The building where we congregate should have some order to it. During service I believe there should be quiet reverence. (I'm a quiet reverence kinda guy anyway) But, it should be quiet while the preacher man is talking. Worship time should be organaized to a point, but not just "let's stand and sing" and sing a song wrote in the 1400's. Jump if you want, sing if you want, don't jump if you don't want and don't sing if you don't want. Worship is subjective to the person giving worship. I do believe the building is a place for all of us to come together have some fun, edify eachother, have bible studies, and fellowship, and good clean conversation. Everytime we get together it should be a fun time. But, as Paul says, "Everything in moderation" Having a concession stand is pretty silly to me. And people just runnin around like a school social isn't such a good thing while the word is being taught. I think it's a great idea to have a place people can and want to come hang out. How many churches do you see have their 1 hour service, then everyone rushes out the door and rarely says a word to another. Some might mingle for a while. And the preacherman stands at the door waiting on handshakes and he can't even look you in the eye and call you by name. In my opinion as long as the word of God is being taught, and there is order and structure, I don't care how you do things, and the Lord doesn't eather.

The use of "I will never leave thee of forsake thee" is attributed to Jesus by the writer of Hebrews 13 and is not in context of Jesus and "His bride" AT ALL. Using the church/marriage analogy is a time honored flaw...because it is just an analogy. Like always, it is just an example to break a point down into understandable basics. Trying to tie all marriages under God is just as ridiculous as trying to say that ALL churches are the bride of Christ. You also failed to mention in your splice and dice of scripture that the "Let not man put asunder" is specifically refering to marriges that God has put together. Certainly you are not going to claim that God is responsible for ALL marriages. I'll kindly thank you to show me how I've done anything other than blame myself for my failed marriage...I have NEVER blamed the "other one" inspite of the fact that I am biblically supported in doing so. It seems your only purpose on this thread is to cast judgement by using out of context, mix-n-match patches of scripture. I think the marriage analogy does just fine. It's not a misconception. It's used allthrough the bible. The church called the bride, Such a bad analogy I guess the Lord should take it out of his book? Revelation 19:9 And he said to me, Write, Blessed are they which are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he said to me, These are the true sayings of God. There's more all through the bible, just have a look. All marriages between believers are under God. And the "Let man not put asunder" was directly dealing with divorce. There are only a couple reasons where divorce is okay in the Bible. No one is trying to beat you down on anything. But the word of God is not subjective and you can't just make it anything you want and think it's okay. I don't know the circumstances in your marriage. I only know what the word of God says, and that's between you and him. All that being said,, You can either believe the Bible, or believe anyones interpretation just to make yourself feel better. (I say this to everyone, not just you) I think it would be a great fantastic Idea if most of the people on this forum decided to go read their Bibles once and a while and find out what it says. Then we wouldn't have so many questions, and so many disagreements. If the bible says 2 plus 2 is 4, that means, that if you add 2 and 2 together you get exactly 4,, not sometimes 6, or 8 on sunday, or even an invisible 9 during passover. It's clear cut for those who believe. But, if you have itching ears, there's plenty out there and on this very forum that'll scratch them for you. I'm done dealing with this subject. I believe there's been good Scriptural reference on here. So now everyone is without excuse. Blessings to you!

Who said that??? Name one person on this thread that has said that! I'll answer for you... No One!! No one said "I'm just not happy in my relationship" on this board. That's what alot of people say when they get divorced. So......... I don't know what your problem is, so I'll chalk it up to a misunderstanding.

Having a golbal currency will place equality to all nations. In theory. It will also put a stop to fluctuating money markets, such as currency purchacing and waiting for the lower value to raise in value then selling. So, by this they can closely control who has what and how much, rather than the markets to decide. Golbal currency makes perfect sense from the corporate world, seeing that the corporate world is without countries or boundaries. This would all work to their benifits. But,,, alas, they know not what they do. It's almost poetic how things are falling into place,, and all under the guise of peace and safety for all of us, or equality etc etc.. It makes sense for the corporations but not for fx market and the US dollar has been for years and still is the world currency. Blessings It would seem that way. But, think of the Euro,, as soon as it was established the value went up substantialy. If they put all our money in one pot the haves will have more. According to their theory the have nots will also have a little more. But, it wont work that way. It's all about control. You can't control country A when they have their own currency and markets. Country B is controled because they're under the Euro with a shared comodity. Bring country A into the same market as country B, and A is now under control.

Having a golbal currency will place equality to all nations. In theory. It will also put a stop to fluctuating money markets, such as currency purchacing and waiting for the lower value to raise in value then selling. So, by this they can closely control who has what and how much, rather than the markets to decide. Golbal currency makes perfect sense from the corporate world, seeing that the corporate world is without countries or boundaries. This would all work to their benifits. But,,, alas, they know not what they do. It's almost poetic how things are falling into place,, and all under the guise of peace and safety for all of us, or equality etc etc..

LOL, "till one messes up" That's the way it seems to some people. "I'm just not happy in my relationship" etc.. The word is clear. You're right! "Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for any reason?" "It was not that way from the beginning" "I hate divorce says the Lord" "Therefore what God has joined together let no man put asunder" "The two shall become one flesh" "For this reason they will leave their mother and father and cleave to one another" "But I say to you, That whoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causes her to commit adultery: and whoever shall marry her that is divorced commits adultery." What about the Samaritan woman who Jesus said,, "Go get your husband" she said, "Sir I have no husband" He said, "That's right" She was married 5 times, and the only one that was or could've been was her original husband.

Maybe I should watch the news or read the papers then.

Do people still listen to the king of Rome? Does he still have that much authority? Seems to me he's become a babbling figurehead with wild ideas. Kinda like a 103 year old grandpa at christmas dinner.

Outlined in the Bible there are reasons for divorce. Divorce itself is not sinful. But, with every act divorce can be sinful. Biblical reasons for divorce are simple. Adultery,,, The only reason given where divorce will be allowed between 2 believers. Unbelivers aren't under any kind of covenant, and are not bound by marriage. Either to eachother or an unbeliever to a believer. The concessions given,,,, If the unbeliever can't live with the believer and wants to leave then let them, and the believer is free to remarry. The believer is not permitted to leave the unbeliever, because they don't know if they would save their spouse or not. If 2 believers are married and divorce, it's okay, as long as neither of them marry another. The only person they are allowed to remarry is the spouse they divorced. If a believer divorces their spouse and their spouse remarries, then the one who divorced caused the other to commit adultery. It's pretty simple, and it's not legalistic. It's the word of God and it's his perfect plan! Now, you can get legalistic, such as,, "Well, adultery is the only reason for divorce. So I divorced my wife, (even though she didn't commit adultery) and she married someone else, so she commited adultery and now I'm free from my marriage bondage." That is so disgustingly wrong on so many levels. But, if you look at it, you cause their sin, and their sin is also on your head. Of course the Lord will forgive you. Will your second marriage be recognised if everything was done outside of these guidelines? I don't know, there's evidence that it wont be. Now, I know there's a bunch of issues, such as abuse. But, just because your spouse is abusive doesn't merrit divorce. But, in the same sense,, a believer wouldn't be abusive. So, you may be within the guidelines of divorce, but as I've stated, divorce should come after years of seperation and prayer and perhaps counciling. Too many people divorce just because they're not having fun anymore. Their spouse is no longer entertaining. The newness wore off so they think they're not in love. Divorce is more often out of selfishness rather than goodness and holiness. I don't care if your wife gained 600lbs! I don't care if your husband is distant and cold! None of that matters! You made a vow to that person, to honor and LOVE before God and the Angels. You are bound to your word. You can talk all you want and try to justify all you want, but if you are outside the guidelines set in the Bible which is the Holy Word of God, then you are wrong, and against the Lords perfect plan for marriage. The following are Bible references (there are others but, I feel these 2 outline clearly for new covenant believers) Mathew 19, 1 Corinthians 7,

Dearest Arthur, I am fairly certain, were you to read the entire thread - that no one has stated that marriages are for "convenience". Who in the world thought marriage would be convient???? It's more convenient to try to catch a shark with balogna tied to your hand than to get married. (I should add, I do love my wife)

Most certainly it dont' happen that way all the time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not passing any kind of judgement on anyone about this. Well, to an extent I'm not. But, I don't know every circumstance, and I know there are some dire situations that happen, either as a result of drugs and alcohol, or just some men being blatantly evil. There are ways out of divorce if you seek them,, such as, adultery, or having a spouse that's not a believer. The "commands" to the believer to stay with the unbeliever were from Paul, not the Lord, as he stated, "I say, not the Lord". But, in my opinion every effort should be exhausted even including seperation for years upon years before a divorce is sought after. No doubt the safety of the munchkins is top priority. I'm sure if I were a woman and in that situation I would leave. But as for a personal resolution, I would not divorce. However, I'm sure I would leave my wife if she ever cheated on me. But, even then It would depend on the circumstances. While I was a drunk, if my wife cheated on me, I would've understood, cause I wasn't there physicaly or emotionaly, as a husband or a friend. And if some seductive stranger came along and she lost control, I couldn't blame her.

I worked at a place called SkullsUnlimited when I was younger. As I was cleaning a skull from a chiuahua, I noticed how much it looked like a vervet monkey skull. So, everyone there believed in evolution. After a while they began to dislike my sense of humor,, Cause, I told them that people came from domestic dog. And, showed them, the dog skull vs the monkey skull. They still didn't see how absurd this evolutionary stuff was. LOL

There's more answeres than divorce. "Do not deprive yourselves of one another except for a time and for prayer" "If you divorce your wife and she remarries you cause her to commit adultery" Separate, but don't divorce, pray and the Lord will answer. "How do you know you wont save your husband?" I was a drunk for 10 years. My wife lived through the abuse, (it did get physical one time,) And we seperated for a few months after that. Mostly the abuse was emotional and verbal. I did my best to destroy everything good in my and her and my kids lives. Everyday my wife looked at me with loving eyes. Everyday my wife had kind words for me. Everyday my wife had affection towards me. She was distant, but did what she could to love me for what I was doing. I beleive the Lord gave her strength and wisdom. She honored the Lord and kept our vows. She kept telling me 'I know this isn't you! This is not you, I know you. You're a kind gentle loving man." I finally quit, and after a couple months of white knuckling it, the Lord delivered me completely. He's also heald my wifes heart, and my kids hearts, and my body and heart and mind. All the damage I tried to cause all those years was reversed by the mercy and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. People that are stuck in addictions are hurting too. They're sad, scared and lonely. Like a baby lost in the woods druing a storm. My suggestion is not divorce. My suggestion is the same as the Lords suggestion. If it's bad seperate, but only for a time. And keep communication open. You'll know true change when you see it, verses, the "I wanna come home now" Change. There ain't been one single time a person who honored the Lord ain't been blessed for it.

I tend to shy away from preacher's that take credit for divine healing. If any healing IS being done, its being done by God. 1 Samuel 24 (King James Version) 10Behold, this day thine eyes have seen how that the LORD had delivered thee to day into mine hand in the cave: and some bade me kill thee: but mine eye spared thee; and I said, I will not put forth mine hand against my lord; for he is the LORD's anointed. Sometimes we need to warn people about false prophets...but when it is clear the one in question is anointed of the Lord, whether we agree with him or not, it is better to honor the Lord and not try to destroy that persons reputation. Our God is well able to correct our brother if he sins or makes any mistakes and our part is to pray for him and lift him up just as we would want to be treated if we messed up...however...I have never heard Pastor Benny do anything less that impress upon people that it is Jesus Who does the miraculous things at the hand of Benny Hinn. He stresses imphatically that Jesus is Lord. Benny Hinn, Never takes the credit and he is always pointing people to Christ and salvation. Mt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I [Jesus] am Christ; and shall deceive many. 2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him [who first delivered the gospel unto you]. Ga 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Amen,,, "And many will say to me on that day, Lord Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name and perform many great works in your name? And I will say to them, Depart from me you wicked servant I never knew you" It ain't about ruining anyones reputation. It's about preserving the Lords reputation and snatching as many of our brothers and sisters out of the mouths of wolves. "Our battle isn't against flesh" Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God on the children of disobedience. 7 Be not you therefore partakers with them. 8 For you were sometimes darkness, but now are you light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatever does make manifest is light.

Good point. Sometimes though it's not so easy to expose these folks. A good example is John MacArthur. I've heard lots of his sermons, I listened to them on the radio on my way to work. Most of them made sense and seemed sound. But, there's that one little bitty ol thing,, If I weren't paying attention I would've just missed. He claimed it wasn't the Blood of Christ that cleansed, it was only his death. And the Blood was really in acronymn for Jesus dying. So, it's not the Blood it's his death and that's it. Seems innocent enough and to someone who didn't know better you'd think,, "Oh, that's what that means" Anyway,, You have a good point.

I agree here. No reason to insult people or anything like that. So far I haven't seen anyone do this on this thread. However, we are to expose false teachers. If there is anyone who is a flase teacher or prophet people should be warned. All of this can be done without defamation and use only facts. Example,,, If I were to come here and say,, "Jesus is not God he's a butterfly" Would anyone here jump on that and expose what I'm saying? If I were in a public forum where the world hung on my word and I said the same thing,, Would you let me continue? I should pray you wouldn't. What shouldn't be done is this,, "Professorwrench is a complete moron! I can't believe he says that stuff. Man, he looks like a homeless guy too" What should be done is this,, "Professorwrench has stated that Jesus is not God he's a butterfly, therefore he is a false teacher" Nothing wrong or unbiblical about that. Even Paul stated he rebuked Peter publicly and even wrote a letter to a church telling them about it. Examples are examples and we can do them tastefully. "Even the archangel Michael didn't slander satan...." Caution should be used when calling anyone out as a false prophet or false teacher, and care should be given to the nature of why you are making that claim, and care should be given as to how you are making your statement. We're called to love, even though they're false we're supposed to love them. Not hate or insult them. Anyway,,, that's my view on it.

Don't put words in my mouth bro. I am not breaking up their marriage. It was already broken and they are official divorced. They haven't been together since September 2008. I wasn't. I posted this from the OP. Sorry I didn't see your post about them already being divorced. But, I decided to let my posts stand unedited for someone else that might be considering the same thing. I should've made clear after I found out more info,, However you choose to move on this situation, I would still consider the word of God and find the reasons for their divorce before persuing it. To me that's the honorable thing to do.

ok, i'm confused. i just looked up benny hinn's website, and there is nothing about any of these things under their statement of faith--or any other part that i saw. how do you know these are "core beliefs" of this and other ministries? if these are core beliefs, wouldn't they be stated on the website? No doubt he'd put something up there like that. But, you gotta dig further under the wool wig of that wolf. I've personaly seen a couple shows of his where he cursed death on everyone that stood against his ministry. Just for your own piece of mind, check out some of his words on Youtube. Or just google some of them. I assure you most of the above quotes are from him.

I haven't read through all the posts, but this very question caught my eye. The seriousness of this question is what concerns me. So, could Satan heal? I don't think he can. Could he take a demon out of someone to serve his purpose,, maybe, but I don't think he does. And the reasons for my answer is this,,,, Matthew 12:22 Then was brought to him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, so that the blind and dumb both spoke and saw. 23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? 24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow does not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. 25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: 26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? 27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come to you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house. 30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathers not with me scatters abroad. If anyone is healed at a Benny Hinn show, then it most certainly is God. Now,,, why would God use someone like Benny Hinn to heal someone? The reason for my answer that the Lord would is this,,,,, Deuteronomy 13:3 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spoke to you, saying, Let us go after other gods, which you have not known, and let us serve them; 3 You shall not listen to the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proves you, to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. There are many others but these two come to mind every time I see things like this. So, even if you touch a statue and you get healed, for what ever reason, it's still the Lord who healed you and not the statue. Or if a man heals you it's still not the man it's the Lord. Can the Lord use even those who are not his children heal,,, I say yes no doubt and he does.

I think the verse you're looking for is 1 Corinthians 7 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. 9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. 10 And to the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. 12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother has a wife that believes not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. 13 And the woman which has an husband that believes not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. 15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God has called us to peace. 16 For what know you, O wife, whether you shall save your husband? or how know you, O man, whether you shall save your wife? The rest of it is also in 1 Corinthians right below that., about being in bondage,,,,,,Some manuscripts use the word slave or bond servant or something similar. This is from the American King James (or NKJ) 21 Are you called being a servant? care not for it: but if you may be made free, use it rather. 22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 23 You are bought with a price; be not you the servants of men. 24 Brothers, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God. As for judging anyone, Well, that's between you and the Lord, but as for a guideline of what to do, I think the word of God speaks for itself and no need to argue as you so wisely stated you will not do. And I mean that last part out of respect and not to be taken snidely (as online it's hard to tell sometimes) Blessings to you