MESSAGER85

Lol my oh my how I love this ole so much.

Its not a teaching its a interpretation and I didnt say it the word did.

There is a huge difference between God moving you in the spirit and astral projection or lucid dreaming. It is very sad that people are so quick to accept every single spiritual experience as being from God. Not all are. We are to test the spirit for even Satan can come as an angle of light ... never forget this. When God moves one in the spirit, there is a reason and a message from Him. This is not the case in astral projection or lucid dreaming. The two are not the same, no matter how much you want to believe or convince others!!! Whenever God moves someone, be it in the spirit, giving them visions or dreams, there is always a message to them from God. Its not my duty to convince anyone of anything so thats irrevelant. The convincing is something Christ would have to rest on the hearts of others. My projections are not lingering around visiting the sleeping humans of the world. When I have spontaneous projections I am seen specific things and being told specific things. Human beings dont have the capacity to really discern anything especially spiritual experiences, because of the fear and very orthodox approach to such matters. Its almost as if christians fearful of spiritual manifestations of any kind. Some people are quick to accept any experience as being from God which is very naive and ignorant and could open doors to very misfortunate circumstances, but I am not one of them. Ive only know what I've done to discern whats happening to me. You say there are not the same by what standards, and who's authority?

Experiences themselves are not defined by what type of experience is taking place, but the integrity and relationship with christ of the individual who is experiencing. Men in the bible such as john, paul, enoch and ezekiel had experiences and some were undoubtly out of body experiences and the experience itself wasnt challenged, because of why? Because the intregity of these men and their relationship with God was strong and we were sold that these experiences were genuine and God appointed. My premise is you cant advocate a experience itself not being of God based on what type of experience is occuring but what is being shown and how these experiences are affecting the views and beliefs of those experiencing them. So dogmatic one would miss the entire train. Christianity is not soley based on the dogma of it but the spiritual aspects as well, and from strong observation there will always be a division between those who are privileged to experience the mysteries and profoundness of God in a supernatural sense and those who have never had experiences as such. All those who dont have manifestations of our supernatural God in their lives have is their word and they are only capable of seeing the lord through text while others can incorporate another element of life and perspective through the such experiences alongside scripture.

Grace to you, Please explain scripturally who sits on the Throne of Heaven. Please also explain scripturally your references above. Peace, Dave Explain scripturally my references above? Reference exactly what to scripture? Grace to you, Your references to passing through spiritual planes of existence and coming across all kinds of beings both bad and good. Who are these other highly intelligent and organic beings who are loving? I just read this passage yesterday; Mt

Grace to you, Please explain scripturally who sits on the Throne of Heaven. Please also explain scripturally your references above. Peace, Dave Explain scripturally my references above? Reference exactly what to scripture? Understanding the following in its most basic and simple form, will set our feet on the established foundation

1 Cor 12:1-31 (NIV) Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant... There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit... There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ... Arent we as believers suppose to believe that God can work in many different ways? The word says that god works in mysterious ways, that noway imply's that we are suppose to understand his way but just accept that he works in this way. When the word says like up above that people will work in the miraculous i wouldnt place out of body experiences outside of that, because when i hear the word miraculous i would think things like O.B.E's are displays of the miraculous. Astral Projection is not what miracles are. You are trying to make scripture fit into your experience and not looking at your experiences through scripture. The NIV is a weak translation. Look at the same scripture in other versions. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New King James Version) There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New American Standard Bible) Now there are (A)varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (King James Version) Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. The NIV gives the wrong impression when they say "to another miraculous powers". The power to perform these miracles comes from God and will never go against His word. Do a search on the internet and you will see that only New Age, mystics and occultist use Astral Projection. This is not a gift from God. I know exactly what type of groups satanist, witches, warlocks, ect. who have used this ability for evil deeds and i believe that that is a major reason for the neg. views on these experiences because of the stigma that has been placed upon the activity based on past participants. 2ndly im not trying to scripturally validate astral projection because i dont astral project i come out of the body for noother reasons than the lord allowing it to transpire. I cant even speak for people who induce spiritual experiences, but im speaking for people who have these occurences involuntarily. Grace to you, I think the key words that you are using is involuntarily. Please explain where in scripture that God works against the will of a man involuntarily. Peace, Dave I personally dont know of any scripture, but this man being I doesnt have a will of myself Ive completly surrendered myself over to christ and only he knows in what way this will be a learning tool for myself and others. In due time the truth of the matter will surface and it will be a UNDENIABLE TRUTH!

1 Cor 12:1-31 (NIV) Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant... There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit... There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ... Arent we as believers suppose to believe that God can work in many different ways? The word says that god works in mysterious ways, that noway imply's that we are suppose to understand his way but just accept that he works in this way. When the word says like up above that people will work in the miraculous i wouldnt place out of body experiences outside of that, because when i hear the word miraculous i would think things like O.B.E's are displays of the miraculous. Astral Projection is not what miracles are. You are trying to make scripture fit into your experience and not looking at your experiences through scripture. The NIV is a weak translation. Look at the same scripture in other versions. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New King James Version) There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New American Standard Bible) Now there are (A)varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (King James Version) Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. The NIV gives the wrong impression when they say "to another miraculous powers". The power to perform these miracles comes from God and will never go against His word. Do a search on the internet and you will see that only New Age, mystics and occultist use Astral Projection. This is not a gift from God. I know exactly what type of groups satanist, witches, warlocks, ect. who have used this ability for evil deeds and i believe that that is a major reason for the neg. views on these experiences because of the stigma that has been placed upon the activity based on past participants. 2ndly im not trying to scripturally validate astral projection because i dont astral project i come out of the body for noother reasons than the lord allowing it to transpire. I cant even speak for people who induce spiritual experiences, but im speaking for people who have these occurences involuntarily.

Understandable viewpoint. Its a drive in me to address this issue because out of body experiences are something that i deal with and because of that i have to look at alot things subjectively to make sure there arent any underlying layers of interpertation on such experiences. When i first started having these experiences the christian community shut the door in my face and it was a very hurtful and frustrating time in life to deal with something so huge and have the people who suppose to show you the most compassion and understanding not even hear me out and pretty much shut my experiences out. Now i speak openly about my experiences cuz i have no reason to be ashamed of them biblically or for any other reason.

1 Cor 12:1-31 (NIV) Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant... There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit... There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ... Arent we as believers suppose to believe that God can work in many different ways? The word says that god works in mysterious ways, that noway imply's that we are suppose to understand his way but just accept that he works in this way. When the word says like up above that people will work in the miraculous i wouldnt place out of body experiences outside of that, because when i hear the word miraculous i would think things like O.B.E's are displays of the miraculous.

Grace to you, Please explain scripturally who sits on the Throne of Heaven. Please also explain scripturally your references above. Peace, Dave Explain scripturally my references above? Reference exactly what to scripture?

Biblical scripture doesnt talk specifically about inducing trances or out of body experiences specifically, but fasting is a form of seeking and inducing a enlightment of some sort from God. Everytime i've fast and tooken my awareness from this reality but completly focused on God for whatever reason i've had O.B.E's as a result from being so disattached during those periods from physical reality. I dont induce my experiences, they come natural to me i just wonder why people get so defensive when these kinds of experiences occur with other people of the same faith, esp. when the bible undenialably is filled with transcendent experiences of all kind by the same people of christian faith.

No. The gifts can be found in 1 Corinthians 12, where astral projection is not even close to any of the gifts. Actually the gift of prophecy is very close in relation to astral projection. Grace to you, Actually there is a primer to the gifts of the Holy Spirit and it is this; 1Co

I have. I walked through many different spiritual planes and encountered all kinds of entities both bad and good. The higher heavens are the most beautiful and abstract filled with colors, animals, and organic material that we've never seen on this plane the beings that inhabit these planes are highly intelligent and loving beings. The lower heavens are dark and lurky filled with hideous landscapes and twisted concepts of the higher heavens. The beings there can be violent and very deceptive i've never seen the biblical hell but if a hell in fire truly exist i mightve been on the boarders of those planes.

No. The gifts can be found in 1 Corinthians 12, where astral projection is not even close to any of the gifts. Actually the gift of prophecy is very close in relation to astral projection.

Ive been thinking the samething. Ive never induced a o.b.e but because the insight that comes out of experiences like that i dont really know if there would be anything wrong with someone inducing them, with everything you have to make a effort with rather its going to church, praying, making the right choices, so why should these experiences be any different. In the earlier years of christianity christian mystics and seers of the church would induce these experiences to gain spiritual enlightment, but the church deemed it to high of a spiritual gift and only the prophets of the church could engage in such activity.

Astral projection is a matter of wrong or right its a matter of do i want to or not. Its a preference like deciding to walk or deciding to drive to your destination. Theres nothing in christian literature that strictly forbids astral projection matter fact if you read scripture closely enoch, ezekiel and paul to name of view had many transcendent experiences even out of body experiences. Christian mystics and seers in earlier christianity also induced and utilized this ability.

Astral projection/out of body experiences generally defined is a seperation of the spiritual body/consciousness into the spiritual dimension including the etheric plane which is the closest to the physical reality in real time. As a christian baptist i've never come across anyone of my faith who has these on-going journeys like myself if they have its only been once or twice. Ive been having spontaneous out of body experiences since the beginning of the year which has come through the SLEEP PARALYSIS ive experienced since i was a child. I've been able to walk the earth, visit locations and verify my observations later on and ive been able to visit different spiritual realms. The only difference i can see in my projections and those who induce these experiences which im not sold on is a bad thing, is that my experiences are natural and out of my control. They have brought me closer to God and my walk in Christ. So how many of you would actually have a out of body experience if you could and if you were in my shoes how would you integrate such occurences into your christian worldview?

You dont have to wait to die to see the glorys of the heavens and experience Gods love in its entirety.

Dreams are very very important when it comes to every aspect of our existence on this planet. Dreams are often hard to understand because of the allegorical and symbolic tones they often represent, but God used dreams 98 times in the bible to warn people, to instruct people, and to just simply minister to his followers. If you cant understand what it means on the surface try keeping a dream journal and record these dreams in details and think about what the occult represents. Maybe its not so much as the occult itself, but seeing that the occult is often associated with darker forms of spiriutality it could mean that you are doing things you shouldnt, that the people you associate with arent healthy for your spiritual being, or maybe God is trying to take you deeper into something implying that whatever it is may be is shrouded in mystery but not neccesarily evil. If you know any dream interperters or a prophet of the church you may find answers there.

Are out of body experiences a gift of the holy spirit. Alot of people seem to be on the break of having them with sleep paralysis and besides that i have out of body experiences 4 times a week!

U can use sage and burn it throughout the house while reciting prayers as a remedy. Doing visualizations in your home of angels and radiant loving white light is also a remedy you can use. The departure of a demonic spirit from a place depends on the strength of the demon. If everything else has failed, seek a professional on the paranormal because by now theres prob. a spiritual portal opened up in the home allowing the spirit or spirits to come and go as they please and if that is the case the prayer and plan of attacks shouldnt be directed toward the evil beings but the portal in which they travel through that is now opened.

SLEEP PARALYSIS IS A VERY NATURAL OCCURENCE THAT EVERYONE EXPERIENCES I'VE SUFFERED FROM IT SINCE I WAS A CHILD AND JUST RECENTLY I LEARNED THIS YEAR HOW CLOSE I WAS TO SOMETHING BEYOND BEING IMMOBLED I'VE BEEN ABLE TO SLEEP FREE OF MY PHYSICAL BODY AND TRAVERSE AND SPACE. SLEEP PARARLYSIS IS A TOOL NOT A ODD YOU'RE UP AGAINST.

Apparently my wife's brain doesn't always release this 'melatonin', I'm always getting a fist in the side or across the face and a knee in the back and the whole time she's having a conversation while dreaming. I don't know if what I experienced had anything related to this but one night I couldn't go to sleep... at least I thought I couldn't. I guess I must have dozed off without knowing it and I could still everything in the room clearly. I could see the alarm clock, the street light shining through the two windows in our bedroom, the pictures on the walls, my closet door opened. Then it felt as if someone was crawling around on the end of our bed and I thought perhaps my wife had gotten up to go to the bathroom and was returning to bed. I then noticed that that she was indeed still beside me. When I looked toward the bottom of the bed there was a dark image in the form of a human only much larger standing there. I knew that name of Jesus was the key but then found myself unable to speak or move... it sounded like a huge rushing wind being pushed through our bedroom at a force that it was keeping me from taking a breath in so that I could speak the name of Jesus. The next thing I knew I was fully awake sitting up right in bed yelling loudly the name of Jesus over and over. As loud as I was speaking... I never even woke up my wife or daughter. LOL WELL AS FAR AS YOUR WIFE GIVING YOU A FIST FULL OF KAROTE CHOPS THE HORMONE "MELATONIN" WAS STILL RELEASED IT DOESNT IN SOME CASES COMPLETLY STOP A PERSON FROM MOVING DEPENDING ON HOW DEEP THE SLEEP IS, BUT IF IT WASNT FOR THAT HORMONE SHE WOULDVE BEEN FULLY ACTIVE IN ACTING OUT HER DREAM INSTEAD OF SLIGHTLY ACTIVE. AS FOR YOUR EXPERIENCE YOU WERE GOING FROM A WAKING TO SLEEP STATE, BUT YOU STILL RETAINED CONSCIOUSNESS WHILE YOUR BODY CONTINUED TO FALL ASLEEP WHICH ACTIVATED YOUR THIRD EYE AND CAUSED YOU TO BE ABLE TO SEE THROUGH YOUR CLOSED EYELIDS. WHEN YOU BEGAN TO HEAR THE RUSHING SOUNDS YOUR ASTRAL BODY WAS BEGINNING TO GENERATE AND ACTUALLY RELEASE ITSELF FROM THE BODY, SINCE YOU HAD SOME FEAR ABOUT THE USUALNESS OF THIS EXPERIENCE THAT SHADOW FIGURE YOU SAW WAS PROB. A THOUGHT-FORM CREATED BY YOUR OWN SUBCONSCIOUS MIND OUT OF FEAR. THE REASON YOU WERENT ABLE TO SPEAK IS BECAUSE YOU WERE TRYING TO USE YOUR PHYSICAL VOCAL CORDS IN A SPIRITUAL REALM. ITS LIKE TRYING TO USE YOUR PHYSICAL EYES TO SEE A ATOM, YOU CAN ONLY COMMMUNICATE TELEPATHICALLY WHEN IN A ALTERED STATE AS SUCH, THATS WHY THE TRANCE BROKE WHEN YOU KEPT REPEATING IT IN YOUR MIND. IF YOU WOULDVE RELAXED AND ALLOWED EVERYTHING TO TRANSPIRE YOU WOULDVE ACTUALLY HAD A FULL BLOWN OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCE, BECAUSE ALL IT TAKES TO HAVE ONE IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID WHICH WAS RETAIN YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS WHILE STILL ALLOWING YOUR BODY TO PHYSICALLY FADE AWAY. INCASE THIS HAPPENS AGAIN AND YOU DONT WANT TO HAVE A O.B.E JUST CONCENTRATE ON YOUR PHYSICAL BODY AND CLOSED YOUR EYES AND THE YOU'LL BE BACK TO A WAKING STATE.

Apparently, this is much more common than most realize. Welcome to Worthy, btw! THANX GLAD TO BE HERE, AND THIS IS A VERY COMMON PHENOMENON THAT ALL OF US EXPERIENCE WHEN WE ARE DREAMING. ITS JUST THROUGH SYNICAL FUNDAMENTALIST THAT THERES BEEN THE MYTHOLOGY OF A DARKER PRESENCE BEING ASSOCIATED WITH THIS OCCURENCE THAT LEAVES MOST PEOPLE IN FEAR OF FEELING LIKE THEIR BEING ATTACKED.