enoob57

Yeah I remember thread I started where I stated a 'doomed from the womb' statement and you shut down the thread... that was a direct quote from Calvin.

To answer the OP: Because we are told by Scripture: Jude 3 (KJV) [3] Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Anyone can examine the historical documents up and to the fourth century and find that basis for 'determinism' and 'total depravity or rather total inability' was not found till Augustinian writings (4th century)... the early Church believed in freewill theodicy. Which as you can see Jude 3 says we are to contend for that faith 'the faith which was once delivered unto the saints'

Yet s/Spiritual life did not occur in humanity till Acts 2 My question is how can something that is dead have revival?

You are different from your churches statement? https://www.missionarybaptistchurches.org/articles-of-faith.html

I see only Scripture as leading to me what is truth and what is not truth... It is God's Word to be followed through a proper hermeneutic as this will lead us into all truth and John 8:32 (KJV) [32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 17:17 (KJV) [17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. John 8:36 (KJV) [36] If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. This is none restrictive in pursuit ...

This is why I say if tongues were Biblically followed there would be no dispute in the churches... because this allows God's Word to be determining factor in discerning of the s/Spirits in any given voice in corporate worship to Him...

I saw this on a google search 1st page and was unhappy that it was not fully answered: ● We know Paul was directly chosen by Jesus... Acts 9:15 ● Paul was in Arabia and returned to Damascus a three year period... Gal 1:17-18 ● Paul was directly taught of Jesus in that 3 year period... Gal 1:16 ● The ones in the upper room were to be waiting upon God's promise... Acts 1:4-5 ● Peter is acting upon Old Testament passages... Ps 69:25; Ps 109:8 ● The criteria for choosing Justice or Mathias ... Acts 1:21-22 ● They used Old Testament means 'lot' to determine Mathias ... Acts 1:26 ● Jesus pointed out His choosing them ... Jn 6:70; Jn 15:16-19 ● Judas was called the son of perdition and was lost ... Jn 17:12 Based on these Scriptural truths: The Disciples and the 120 in the upper room were to be waiting upon the promise of The Holy Spirit. Peter was known to be brash in his actions and clearly here, at this time, He is not regenerated with the indwelling of The Holy Spirit as yet. We see him taking action and persuading other to act as well and in reality 'forcing God by lot' to fill the twelfth throne... Judas was never meant to be other than what he was a lost son of the devil... God says this of his choice of being: Mark 14:21 (NKJV) [21] “The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born.” The twelve Apostles chosen by Jesus are: Peter, James, John, and Andrew; Philip and Thomas; Bartholomew and Matthew; James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot; and Judas the son of James; Paul

Sorry folks… now and again family just needs to love on one another

This is meant as testimony not as flattery: I have always found your direction to Biblical things sound and good… thanks Sister of mine!

@Alive yes the transitional nature of NT writing is ever mindful in my contextualization of it. Balance within Scripture is kept by God in the hermeneutic of His Word

Yes these are valid reasonings of Scripture… that is why you’ll notice I do not say tongues have ceased as there are these facts you have given… I do tell people to be wary of tongues for it is a persuasion to trust outside of Scripture in intuitions and feelings. For myself I trust in the objective presence of His Word … My faith is born out from His Word and I enjoy the humanness of it, however, I do not cling to the body I am in nor the world which I began… As God has said it so I believe it and the sensual aspects of flesh I give no mind to as they pass away and will be forgotten

Because God has said this John 12:46-50 (KJV) [46] I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. [47] And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. [48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. [49] For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. [50] And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. John 14:21 (KJV) [21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. It seems to me in this time God has placed all weight upon His Word and has told us all things unto the eternal state… said Scripture is said to be able to perfect us for all use by God now and till we are taken from here… 2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV) [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. The foundational aspects of life are placed fully upon the Scripture … so I tend to rely totally upon His Word for here and now in all matters. This in no way affirms that you are not George it is merely pointing to the weight of Scripture given us by The Scripture…

As my argument is not whether tongues are for today or not… my argument lies totally in the use of said gifts… cessationist believe when the Bible was complete in canon is the perfect mentioned here in vs. 10 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 (KJV) [8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. [9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. [10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. [11] When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. [12] For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. [13] And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. This carries some weight in the light of this statement 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV) [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. The thought process being that which may perfect one to use for God being the Scripture is the perfect to come… However the knowledge that shall vanish away is spoken of by the prophet Isaiah Isaiah 65:17 (KJV) [17] ¶ For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. vs 8b ‘whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.’ God even tells us when the knowledge of former things will be removed Revelation 21:1-5 (KJV) [1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. [2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. [4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. [5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. As far as tongues ceasing that’s not important … the fact if they were Biblically followed there would not be issue within the body of Christ…

I believe in a closed cannon … The seal at the end of Revelation is a seal for all times till the new heaven and new earth… If God is indeed doing it then all is moot … but if God is not in it then you have tongues without interpretation… The Lord never violates His Word… Public is public and private is private no confusion for me in this at all… 1 Corinthians 14:28 (KJV) [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. personally I would say a low mumble is not silence …

As I said if it is in private then it is between God and them… Corinthians 14:27-28 (KJV) [27] If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. [28] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. although the Word of God seems to indicate everything is to be weighed by the Word in understanding… as the Word was not complete in this time. the desire of God for seems toward understanding… 1 Corinthians 14:14-19 (KJV) [14] For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. [15] What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. [16] Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? [17] For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. [18] I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: [19] Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Chapter and verse please!

If they are hearing literacy is of no consideration… You are not addressing the issues I have brought up but just arguing for the existence of tongues… if you wish to dialogue with me please do so with the things I said and not blind statements of which I have said nothing…

There can nothing be judged by private matters… between God and the person… but whenever in public within the hearing of others and no interpretation is given then it is simply in violation of clearly defined Scripture and thus not of God! everything is to be examined by the light of Scripture as it is the only objective source whereby man, saved or unsaved, accounts to God John 12:48-50 (KJV) [48] He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. [49] For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. [50] And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

No I am sorry but you are not getting what I wrote by the response you have given… It is simple… God’s Word, That The Holy Spirit inspired, is written communication where anyone can examine it’s content by sensual means. With proper understanding how to contextualize that which is written gives the message that was originally written for all times and epochs… Tongues, not interpreted, gives no such format… tongues message cannot even be discerned by the mind but operated totally outside of reasoning into sensual feelings and intuitions without words understandable…

Do you know what is being said when this occurs?

As I have warned in the past and do so now because these threads keep popping up: The major concern that I hold against the present tongues movement is that it supports, persuades, urges people to do so as it is a indication of the presence of God The Holy Spirit… When one examines the basic thrust or bottom line of tongues you find that it is moving faith or trust in one’s own intuitions or feelings (APART) from the communication of words of which lies God’S Word… Directly speaking it is faith directly opposite that of what God says: Romans 10:17 (KJV) [17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Here in this present tongues it is feelings or intuitions… if tongues were followed Scripturally there would be no issue within the Church. As no tongue should be heard or publicly spoken without interpretation- why? So that the completed Word could be examined as to the validity of truth that was coming from that which was said… No one can argue the validity of the foundation which is God’s Word 2 Timothy 3:15-17 (KJV) [15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The entire Scripture flows with less difficulty with free-will theodicy… it seems once the lenses of Calvinism go on the hermeneutic of ‘when the plain sense makes sense seek no other sense’ goes out the window.

Ya think

Gen 7:19-24 19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. 20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. 21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. 23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark. 24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days. KJV When I read people who claim there wasn't a worldwide flood ... I pause ... This account came from God given to Moses, as God was the only remaining witness of the event to tell us through Moses! So the foolishness of this is revealed by reality... we as a body of believers know because God has said so and that is sufficient for the discussion! Bias is simple- the will to see what you want to see and the ability to remove bias is to be able to die to self, (ye must be born again), and weigh evidence according to the value meter of truth, which, exists no matter the lie formed against it... God has answered that question succinctly: John 17:17 (KJV) [17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. If you doubt portions of Scripture, then you are infected with lie...

That is a life soaked in God's Word and it is beautiful beyond compare... thanks for sharing this...