winsomebulldog

I haven't had any exchanges with you that would cause me to label you anything other than a fellow Christian. I share your dislike of labels. Too often they are based on prejudices that have nothing to do with the actual person they're being applied to. That being said, I also know that it is our human nature to lump each other into "groups" that make it easier for us to recognize and respond to one another. It isn't always right, but I think we all do it to one degree or another. I'm not a KJV only sort of person, but I know plenty of others who are - my own pastor included - and it doesn't bother me in the least. I don't shove any other version I might happen to read down his throat and I don't take it personally when he shares his feelings about those other translations. He isn't wrong in many of the things he says. But my convictions are mine and I certainly won't judge another person for living by theirs. As to being a "fundamentalist." I gladly accept that label myself. Though the Lord alone knows exactly what it's supposed to mean. Depending on who you ask, the definition will vary dramatically. I personally take it to mean someone who isn't fond of or participating in the "progressive" movement that is an increasingly popular trend in Christianity. I don't much care for "mega" churches, yet I do appreciate many of the "modern" forms of worship some of them use. I attended a small church as a teen that regularly sang what are called "worship songs" today and it was wonderful. I just watched a video the other day of a young man who created an amazing piece of artwork over the span of a few minutes as part of a worship service. It was incredible and clearly a profound God-given talent. I love traditional hymns, Southern Gospel, choral music, and a fair amount of more "contemporary" music. (But that's probably because I was raised to love music by two musically inclined parents and so my tastes are extremely eclectic. ) I find it regretful that some churches, in an effort to resist the influence of the world, also resist any sort of change at all, including in how they worship. I know one pastor who I respect greatly and who is a very anointed preacher, that abhors "contrived" music like a soloist singing with an accompaniment track. That's his preference, but I also know that his views on the matter are skewed by his personal history. He's definitely a "fundamental" sort of preacher, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything he preaches. That's why God gave us discernment. I'm a fundamental Christian in that I have definite traditional values and views on many things. However I'm not fundamentally stubborn to the point that I cut off my nose to spite it. Worship is like prayer. It is personal and should be so. Just as I would not beat someone over the head with my personal convictions, demanding that they share and practice them, I don't appreciate it when others try to force me in line with their beliefs. Still, fundamental isn't a bad word. I equate it with traditional. In the end, we all need to be careful when applying labels to one another. Because labels are much too confining for the average person. None of us is ever as cut and dried as labels tend to make us seem. And I'll just climb on down off my soap box now.

LOL Your brain works a bit like mine. I can stop, start, and change (mental) direction a half-dozen times in the span of a single second. Makes it kinda hard for my hubby to keep up with me sometimes. Shoot, makes it hard for ME to keep up with me sometimes. Never worked for a railroad, but I did have a cheap plastic toy train set as a kid. Had a plastic track that made a little circle, and an engine, cars and a caboose, all powered by batteries. I remember playing with it, but it was kind of boring because, well, it just went in a circle. What kind of fun is that? As to the full size trains, in the area where I grew up they were everywhere. There was that track right beside my grandmother's house, which made every train passing a real fun event since the whole house shook. And did I mention that she collected salt and pepper shakers? Sounded like an earthquake in a china store every time one of those things went by. In between the trains, I used to walk a ways up the track to a trestle and play in the creek below it. It was pretty intimidating to be down there when one of those big boys went rolling by overhead. It's been over two and a half decades since I walked that track, but I can still smell the creosote oozing out of the ties in the summer. My hometown, which wasn't the same one as my grandmother's, was a little spot in Mississippi called Corinth. It was known as the "Crossroads" because it was hub for several rail lines. We had tracks running all over the place in town. So much so that you'd cross the same lines on a bunch of different roads. Plus, the trains had this wonderful habit of pulling into town and just stopping, blocking half a dozen or more roads all at once. The Lord alone knows how many collective hours we spent just sitting there, staring at a stopped train - or even more annoying, one that would pull forward a bit, stop, back up, stop, pull forward, stop, etc. Now I live in a place where train tracks are rare to see (too hilly) and even when we do come across them, they rarely see any traffic. I do miss that whistle and the sound of the wheels. I don't wish to puff you up or your head, but have you considering writing. Yours was one post I didn't mind reading the length of it, I love the idea of writing and been told I had a skill, but I don't. I can almost smell the creosote right now, and when the sun is really hot it was run down the power poles and as a kid I would pop the bubbles it would make sometimes. Question, how do you pronounce creek? Thank you for the compliment on my writing. I'm a voracious reader, thanks to my mother who started reading to me probably on the day I was born. She loved books, and passed that love on to me. I do write, though not professionally. Creek: I say it exactly how it's spelled (long "e"). My mother was from the back end of nowhere, Tennessee and never finished high school, but she didn't sound like it, and she was determined that none of her kids would either. I will never forget the day I came home from 1st grade pronouncing police with the emphasis on "po-" (long o). She just about had a cow. She lectured me on the proper pronunciation and to this day, I can't help but laugh when I hear anyone pronounce it the other way. Of course, I do occasionally mimic the inflections and expressions I grew up hearing, in which case I would likely pronounce it, "crick."

LOL Your brain works a bit like mine. I can stop, start, and change (mental) direction a half-dozen times in the span of a single second. Makes it kinda hard for my hubby to keep up with me sometimes. Shoot, makes it hard for ME to keep up with me sometimes. Never worked for a railroad, but I did have a cheap plastic toy train set as a kid. Had a plastic track that made a little circle, and an engine, cars and a caboose, all powered by batteries. I remember playing with it, but it was kind of boring because, well, it just went in a circle. What kind of fun is that? As to the full size trains, in the area where I grew up they were everywhere. There was that track right beside my grandmother's house, which made every train passing a real fun event since the whole house shook. And did I mention that she collected salt and pepper shakers? Sounded like an earthquake in a china store every time one of those things went by. In between the trains, I used to walk a ways up the track to a trestle and play in the creek below it. It was pretty intimidating to be down there when one of those big boys went rolling by overhead. It's been over two and a half decades since I walked that track, but I can still smell the creosote oozing out of the ties in the summer. My hometown, which wasn't the same one as my grandmother's, was a little spot in Mississippi called Corinth. It was known as the "Crossroads" because it was hub for several rail lines. We had tracks running all over the place in town. So much so that you'd cross the same lines on a bunch of different roads. Plus, the trains had this wonderful habit of pulling into town and just stopping, blocking half a dozen or more roads all at once. The Lord alone knows how many collective hours we spent just sitting there, staring at a stopped train - or even more annoying, one that would pull forward a bit, stop, back up, stop, pull forward, stop, etc. Now I live in a place where train tracks are rare to see (too hilly) and even when we do come across them, they rarely see any traffic. I do miss that whistle and the sound of the wheels.

It's my thread and I say, pull harder and see if we can derail this thing. Well, my Mawmaw lived about 200 yards from a train track and when we visited, I used to put pennies on the track to be flattened by a train. I quit doing it though because I heard that could derail the trains. Anybody got any pennies?

Wow! I've been on this board a long time and some people still can't tell my sarcasm! Come on guys. Read some of my posts or at least take a look at the topic "Just a little fun." I kinda assumed you were being sarcastic, or at least hinting at the Democrats' trend of calling anyone who doesn't think Obama is the greatest gift ever given to the world a racist. We really do need a sarcasm font.

You know, I have been wondering since he first appeared as a candidate, why none of his handlers has bothered to point out to him that the way he always does that makes him look like the biggest narcissist in the world? Seriously, image does matter in politics, so how is it that so many are able to look at that expression on his face and NOT be horrified? And you are an American, my friend.

Boy, have we dragged this thread off on a tangent! Not long after I moved up north, we were at church around the Fourth of July and they decided to sing "The Battle Hymn of the Republic." As the pianist was leading into it, my hubby turned to me and said, "I didn't think you were allowed to sing this song."

Here is a post that has to be explained. I surely hope your not one of these liberals that think "if your against Obama, your a racist". I was wondering the same thing, but just too tired when I read it the first time to come up with a response. Still tired, but just passed through to see if anyone else had commented.

The sub-title of your topic immediately brought to mind a song we used to teach to younger kids when I was a teen. It's called "Supernatural." supernatural... oh where is superman when you need a helping hand? don't look for wonder woman when trouble's really coming and please don't count on batman when danger you must face I highly recommend God's supernatural grace supernatural Jesus walked on the water supernatural God made a sidewalk through the sea supernatural Jesus made instant wine supernaturally I hadn't thought about that song in years, until I read this post. It's based on the somewhat "lighter" versions of the superheroes we grew up with, but you're very right that they've changed a lot since then. Of course, the actual comic books most of them were based on were often much darker than the movies and tv shows they spawned. Still, I completely agree with your idea that much of the world is desperately seeking something to fill the void left by an absence of relationship with God.

I don't personally have an issue with "Crafty Christians," but I get why you're concerned. So, how about "Christian Crafters" or maybe "Christian Creations?"

Amen, Mizz.

Winsomebulldog, You are not pretentious at all. Your insight is much appreciated. In the past I had considered this option. However, trust is not something I would easily give even to my hubby's mother or family. As mine is a long distance away and are not big on taking care of small children after raising six of their own. My parents feel it is my job to tend to my little ones, and that I surely do not argue with. My hubby's family....well, a lot of them are drinkers. Aside from that my sister in law lives with my mother in law, this is mostly due to her life choices which are still ones in need of a lot of prayer. For she tends to bring it with her to her mother's house and her mother while she does not condone it, does nothing to put an end to it. In short, I feel it is not the safest enviroment for my children and do not want to run the risk of them being taken away. A lot of the time, if my boys go over there it is when I know it is just their grandma and grandpa home as they tend to the boys and usually do not have any questionable company with questionably legal habits within their home. For I have seen illegal things go on in that household while my husband's sister is there of which while have become less frequent have not stopped...which is why I keep his family at an arms length and pray for them a lot. There has also been a family member of a young age without proper discipline who tends to get agressive towards everything and everyone that is there on occassion and again....just do not feel safe bringing my children there while he is present. This probably sounds like I am passing judgement....but I do not mean to do so. My resources and outlets are very short listed here. Will surely pray for guidance though on this matter, and see what can be done. Thank you May God Bless You In an effort to inject a bit of humor here: “You can choose your friends but you sho' can't choose your family, an' they're still kin to you no matter whether you acknowledge 'em or not, and it makes you look right silly when you don't.” ― Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird There have been lots of jokes in my family about my family. And my husband's family. Everything from doubts about whether certain members were actually hatched from eggs or about how I (and my husband for that matter) am the baby of the family, yet have seemed to have a far more stable life than my older siblings. I remember complaining to a friend once about how my sisters could never get past the fact that I was the "baby" and that they'd always see me as such. Her response was that I was the only one who acted like an adult between us. This was a bit exaggerated, but the fact remains that in the end, we are indeed stuck with whatever family we have. I am sorry that you are in a situation where you cannot comfortably seek assistance from either side of your family. That's a real shame, as I fully believe that families ought to be something of a unit - within reason of course - where they provide all the support and assistance they can for each other. But as you have said, you absolutely must do what is best for your children, so I can only applaud you for not placing them in a situation that you feel is potentially risky. I have little family left, on either side, and so while our situations are dramatically different, I do understand the sense of loneliness that can come from being unable to depend upon your family to simply "be there" to support you. No doubt that God makes it plain that once we are married, we are to become one with our spouses and place that "family" unit above our extended family, but I do still believe that our parents, siblings, aunts and uncles, all of our family are meant to be a unit that can offer mutual love, support, and encouragement. Before my mother's death, this was precisely how my family functioned for the most part. Losing her, however, was a bit like losing the lynchpin that held us all together. After she was gone, it was just so easy for everyone to get caught up in their own lives and drift apart. Very sad. Not to mention that my mother was often the "voice of reason" in our family and without her there, things got... complicated for lack of a better word. But I'm rambling. (I do that a lot. Love to chase those rabbits. ) Mostly, I just want to offer you encouragement and support. We all need that from time to time. Plus, you just have such a sweet spirit. Makes me smile. God bless you and your precious family.

My heart aches for you. I cannot claim to have any experience with the issues involved with rearing special needs children, or any children at all, as we do not have any. However, twice in my life I have been a caretaker for a terminally ill family member. I remember very well how difficult that is. It goes far beyond the mere physical strain of the constant care involved. It is emotionally exhausting as well. That's something that many who haven't experienced a similar situation cannot really understand. When you listed some of the details of your typical day, I just couldn't help but think of my mother-in-law who died five years ago the first of this month. She was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer and quite literally from the moment she was diagnosed, she required around the clock care. This care primarily fell to my husband and myself and it takes a real toll on a person over time. We filled that role for several months. I can only imagine the physical and emotional strain of being a full time caretaker for years. As for your fears of depression, I can relate. I've suffered from it for my entire adult life. And while I know God has carried me through it, keeping me alive through times so dark and awful that death truly seemed like the only way out, I also know that He doesn't hold it against me that I eventually sought counseling or that I still take medication on a daily basis to help me resist that lying voice that tries to tell me I have no value and countless other things that only serve to beat me down to a pulp. I have told my therapist that I find being a caretaker far more emotionally and physically exhausting than being the one in need of care. Just over a year and a half ago I was diagnosed with breast cancer. My surgeries and treatments are now behind me and I won't pretend that the fight wasn't hard and often unpleasant, but the reality is that being the one who was sick and in need of care was far easier for me than having to be the one providing care. And it isn't because I just like being taken care of. It's because as the one who was "sick" I was able to just hand it all over to God and trust completely that whatever happened, it was part of His plan and would work out for the best. But when I'm the one taking care of someone I love, I suffer from the overwhelming desire to somehow "fix" things. I want to do anything that might possibly somehow make the one I love feel even the tiniest bit happier or better or just make them smile. It's because I love them and I'd go through anything for them. I tell you this because I think you feel the same. You love your children and your husband with every fiber of your being so you are willing to give and give and give because you want to make things easier for them and you want to take care of them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact, I think that's the way we all ought to be, especially in relation to our families. But I have also learned that sometimes you need some time for yourself. It doesn't make you selfish, it is just a simple fact. You have said your husband is a good man and I have no reason to doubt that, but I also know that while work can be tiring and stressful, it is also a form of "escape" from stresses at home. Please understand that I absolutely do not want to come across as sound critical of him or anyone else. It's just a simple fact that going to a job outside the home affords that person a chance to "get away" from whatever stressful issues exist in the home. My husband learned and admitted as much while his mother was sick. His hours at work gave a chance to focus on something else for a little while. You, however, as the full-time care giver for your children are never afforded that break. You live with it day in and day out, every moment of every single day. I cannot begin to imagine how exhausted you must be. I don't know if my words are at all helpful, but I do know that you have nothing to be ashamed of. Despite some who claim otherwise, God never intended for women to the the sole caregivers of the children. We have unfortunately long been subjected to the culture of "Man work - woman raise kids." Unfortunately, I don't have any easy answers to offer. There just aren't any. Pray, pray, pray simply comes across as sounding trite. It's always good advice, but I know that sometimes we can get to a place where it just isn't that simple. The only thing I can say is that you shouldn't feel like a failure for needing a break every now and then. More than once every several months. You've said that you've tried to talk to your husband about how overwhelmed you feel. In my experience, men often have no clue what that really means. My own husband, who I would fiercely argue is the best in the whole world spent easily the first half of our relationship and marriage essentially telling me to "get over it" in relation to my major depression. It wasn't that he didn't care. He simply could not fathom the concept and I wasn't any good at explaining it to him. Eventually, after more than a few years and a large number of major depressive episodes and a bit of research on the internet on his part, he started taking it all a lot more seriously. He still has no true understanding of it. He just can't wrap his brain around how depression works. But he understands that it is real and that it can't be ignored. The point being, your husband may well have no actual real understanding of that drowning sensation that is plaguing you. Men simply don't work the same way we do and it is often difficult to bridge those differences, regardless of how good the relationship is. You've mentioned your family and while I know you have said they aren't as understanding or supportive as they could be, I wonder if they are willing to be at all helpful? I really don't like coming across as "telling you what to do" or "having all the answers" because I KNOW it doesn't work that way. But at the risk of sounding like a pretentious jerk, I wonder if you could explain to your husband that you need more "time off." Not that you aren't madly in love with your children, but that you just need a break. You don't have to "go out" or anything, but a little time for just the two of you or even for just you can go a long way. So, is there any way that your family could or would be willing to step in and perhaps agree to take the boys off your hands once in a while. Gosh, I hate offering advice like this. Makes me feel so obnoxious. Seriously, my heart is just aching at the thought of how enormous the weight you are carrying must feel to you. I don't know if your family or even your church family might have someone in it that could fill the role of "baby sitter" for a short while for you. Just long enough for you to get some time to focus on yourself. I do know that you deserve it and that you aren't somehow a "bad" mom or wife for feeling the strain. Forgive me if I have come across as pretentious. I just want you to know you are not alone. In truth, all I can really do is lift you up to the Lord. Trite as it can sometimes feel and sound, He is the ultimate problem solver. And as one of my favorite expressions goes, "Sometimes He calms the storm, sometimes He calms His child." I pray He grants you peace and rest and a solution to the stress you are feeling. If you believe you need to see a counselor, do so. Believe me when I tell you that it's much easier to "nip it in the bud" than to wait until depression has fully bloomed and pulled you down into it's black pit. And if you do wind up seeking out counseling, don't let anyone tell you that your need for help isn't real or is only based in selfishness. Don't let anyone bully you into believing that it will all just go away if you'll simply have more faith or pray more often. Depression is a disease just like cancer or diabetes. It is not something to feel ashamed about. And even if you aren't suffering from major depression, the stress you are under alone is enough reason to seek out someone to talk to who won't be judgmental and make you feel like you're just feeling sorry for yourself. God bless you, dear sister in Christ.

"War between the states?!" Blasphemy!! It was "The War of Northern Aggression!" My Yankee hubby loves to regale his friends & coworkers with tales & trivia about the "idiosyncrasies" of Southern life & people. The whole War of Northern Aggression thing is one of his favorites. He also still cracks up at the way my "accent" shows up when I say certain words. More than twenty years up here in Yankee land & it still pops out every now & then.

Hey, me too!!! Well, not so much the "back woods." LOL But I did grow up in Alcorn County in the north-eastern corner of the state. Yee-ha! (Rebel yell. Something my Yankee husband once asked me about after a performance at our local theater which I was a part of. He was surprised he didn't hear a lot of them as part of the cheering. Too many episodes of "The Dukes of Hazard" I suppose. Interestingly, Bo and Luke were pretty much the only ones I heard using that particular vocalization as a kid. )

I'll agree that her language isn't what I'd expect or like to hear coming from a Christian. However, she does identify herself as a Christian. Otherwise, I agree with you about her and other conservatives. They all seem to stick their feet into their mouths with alarming regularity. Then again, I think that's a problem suffered by everyone who chooses to make it their job to speak in public forums. Sometimes I just want to ask all of them, from celebrities to politicians to three-quarters of the people on any given social forum, "what were you thinking?!"

After doing a bit of research, I learned that she's been engaged several times, but never married. I won't even hazard to guess the extent of those relationships. I'm not familiar enough with Coulter to know - or care - about whether or not she regularly "consummates" her engagements or not. Not my business. I've seen her on miscellaneous TV shows and appreciate some of what she has to say. I also actually respect the fact that she at least is consistent in her words and behavior, though I may not personally condone them. I am increasingly sick and tired of "conservatives" who profess to think and believe one thing, but cave to pressure to keep those views silent or to "hedge their bets" just so they can go along with the "party" line. I am a conservative, but I'm getting increasingly sick of the overall behavior and policies of the Republican party. I just happen to think the Democrats are actually worse, to a small degree. Basically, I think they all stink to high heaven and would love to see every single career politician out of a job. But I digress. One other thing I came across while researching Coulter is this quote of hers, which I suppose sums her up pretty clearly, at least from her point of view. Thanks. I have to say that last quote did make me chuckle. Me, too. On the one hand, she doesn't seem to display many of the values I would expect from a Christian, on the other hand, at least she's honest about who and what she is. I appreciate that, having spent much of my life dealing with the sorts of folks who like to talk a good game, but don't often live up to the talk when push comes to shove. I'm not anti-Coulter. I don't know enough about her to form much of an opinion. What little I have seen of her, though, I do have to say she seems to have the number of most of those she comes up against. Like most, if not all, political pundits, though, I assume that she's as much about the show as she is about the truth. Generally speaking, while I agree with some of what I hear said by them, I kind of lump political commentators in with the politicians they comment on. They're doing their job, regardless of which side they lean toward. Taking any of them too seriously is pointless. They're all going to say what they think will get them the biggest favorable response at that particular time. Pundits and commentators are a good place to find out what specific issues are currently at the forefront of the political arena, but the only real way to get the unbiased truth remains to do all the research yourself.

After doing a bit of research, I learned that she's been engaged several times, but never married. I won't even hazard to guess the extent of those relationships. I'm not familiar enough with Coulter to know - or care - about whether or not she regularly "consummates" her engagements or not. Not my business. I've seen her on miscellaneous TV shows and appreciate some of what she has to say. I also actually respect the fact that she at least is consistent in her words and behavior, though I may not personally condone them. I am increasingly sick and tired of "conservatives" who profess to think and believe one thing, but cave to pressure to keep those views silent or to "hedge their bets" just so they can go along with the "party" line. I am a conservative, but I'm getting increasingly sick of the overall behavior and policies of the Republican party. I just happen to think the Democrats are actually worse, to a small degree. Basically, I think they all stink to high heaven and would love to see every single career politician out of a job. But I digress. One other thing I came across while researching Coulter is this quote of hers, which I suppose sums her up pretty clearly, at least from her point of view.

This was my favorite part: I absolutely love how the Christian group says their intent was to pray that evildoers - primarily drug users, dealers, and traffickers - would be dissuaded from coming into the county and the atheists turn around and say it makes them feel unwelcome. The article says this "war" has been going on for a while now, so I can only assume that the atheists responded to this blessing because they just couldn't bear to let something so "offensive" go. Yet, not one of them has the sense to realize that their response just makes them look like a bunch of morons who feel the need to "stand up" for the poor, oppressed members of the drug culture and trade. Or maybe they really were offended because they're part of that culture and this "blessing" might somehow force them to stay out of the county. It's just so ignorant how far some people will go and how blind they become to the absurdity of their own words and actions. Edited to add that I'd be curious to know how some of our resident atheists feel about this incident.

Honestly, I don't know how to pick any one of these things that bothers me more than the others. They all carry their own problems and issues. Mostly, aside from the fact that I hate the idea of having this thing rammed down my throat regardless of the fact that it has never been a secret that the majority of Americans did not want it passed, I am convinced that like every other government run program it will be a hot mess and never function with anything remotely approaching efficiency. I don't know how long socialized healthcare has been in place in other countries. Nor do I have the first notion of how their tax or fiscal systems work. I live here and our system is hard enough to manage. I just know that the mess we've got in place now gets more out of whack every year. No one has the guts to do anything to actually try to fix it. They just keep slapping more band aids on the hemorrhaging and burying their heads in the sand, hoping it'll all work itself out. Or maybe just hoping that it'll hold together long enough for them to get out of office. I know that we cannot continue to create more and more social crutches, tax the "higher incomes" to death to pay for them, and enact virtually no laws or system to ensure that those services aren't abused. I absolutely don't think that every person who seeks aid from welfare or any other social program is lazy or a mooch. But I know for a fact that these systems are broken and that our government can't police itself, much less the countless programs it continues to enact. So I see Obamacare as just one more colossal failure just waiting to happen. If Washington does get anything they have control over to work, maybe I wouldn't be so cynical of Obamacare.

What you find amusing, those of us who actually live here find offensive. It isn't about people on a "high income" being asked to pay "a little more tax." It's about the middle class being taxed to death with none of the loopholes, shelters, or breaks afforded to the super rich and low income, and with no consideration given to rates of inflation or any other issues that impact the disposable income of tax payers. The point in question is about additional charges on family incomes above $250,000 and individual incomes above $200,000! Those are not average American middleclass salaries. The reality is that no one has the first clue what "middle class" even means. From the government to insurers to consumers to tax payers, everyone has a different definition. I found an article written in 2003 (Here if you want to read it) about how the middle class - then "broadly defined" as those earning $25,000 to $99,999 - was barely managing to stay afloat. That's an upper limit of $100,000 ten years ago. Now, regardless of how you personally feel about the $250,000 "limit," the reality is that as others have pointed out, that number isn't as simple as "disposable income of a married couple." That number takes nothing else into account. It doesn't care if the majority of that income came from your home business or if it is tied up in that business. It just says, you made "X" amount of money so we want half. And believe me, that isn't an exaggeration. Even more disturbing is the fact that our government doesn't care if you're in desperate financial straits. They just want their money. If, as happened to us, you have an emergency that puts you into a position where your income triples simply because you're trying to pay off all your debts so you won't lose your home to foreclosure, they don't care. Not only do they take half that "income," they also force you to pay taxes the following year equal to what you paid the year before! They don't care if you're making a quarter or less of what you made in previous years. They expect and demand that you pay in those taxes each fiscal quarter. At the end of the year, if your income doesn't reach the same level as the previous year, they'll give you most of those taxes back. But that doesn't do anything to help you during that full year that you're having to pay them in. See, it isn't about the progressive tax rates nearly as much as it is about the bureaucracy, red tape, and blatant abuse that exists within our system. You can target our supposed "greed" all you like, it won't change the fact that you can have no real understanding of our situation here if you aren't living here. Just like I don't pretend to understand your system in England or Fez and Candice's system down in Australia. I won't even pretend to speak for others on this board. Frankly, I've read things posted in this thread in response to you and others who share your views that I don't fully agree with. Personally, I simply want to see the abuses that are a day to day part of our government "business" put to a stop. Obamacare is one of those abuses. It isn't about my personal views on socialism or government run healthcare. Those are actually different discussions altogether. I am merely fed up with a system that rewards those who abuse it and punishes those who do not. I am tired of watching career politicians stand up and flat out tell me that they think I'm too stupid to make my own decisions so they're going to do what they think is best whether I like it or not. (Obamacare in a nut shell.)

Exactly!

I, for one, don't think Australia or any other country with a socialistic system is "worse" than Obama. ... And THIS is why we feel that comparing the sliding or "progressive" taxation system that works elsewhere to the terribly ineffective and unfair system we have here is pointless. Just because it works for you does not mean it works for us. You seem to be in a minority then, because most of the time Australian political issues are spoken of here, for example our health care, it is mocked. Infact, after griping about how awful Obama is on a post many moons past, I spoke of what we have, and it was reiterated to me that America is the greatest nation in the world and they still don't want what we have. I'm not gloating in your downfall, I'm defending my own nation. You are right though, what works here (socialised health care, for example, and fiscal regulations) simply won't wash there because you don't want them. Sis, I need to clear something up. I am not gloating in the fall of America, not at all. Our system isn't fail proof either. But it's not quite as "evil" as what is made out sometimes, and that's all amor, Fez and I were pointing out. Seems I've unintentionally been offensive, for which I humbly apologise, it wasn't intended to read that way. You and Fez haven't been the least bit offensive, Candice. And I'm not offended, nor do I feel that any of you are "gloating in the fall of America." I may not have been clear enough, but I really do have no problem with Australia's system. If it works for you guys, then I am very happy for you. I wouldn't wish the mess we've got going on here on anyone. I really wish we had much tougher fiscal regulations. I don't really think most of us Americans would object to stricter rules. I personally believe that most, if not all, of the financial issues that have plagued us could have been avoided by stricter fiscal regulations. And we don't oppose socialized healthcare only because it offends our "sensibilities," but because there isn't a single government run entity in this nation that is solvent and in the black. They are all plagued by obscene amounts of waste and debt that our illustrious leaders have no clue how to address. Even if they know how to fix it, they don't want to, because it'll hurt their personal bottom lines. Too much money being shoved into their pockets by special interests. amor has pushed a few of my buttons because he continues to insist that we're all just too greedy to be willing to pay higher taxes. I am not greedy. I have no problem paying taxes. I simply am sick and tired of my tax money being taken in increasing amounts while those who approve those increases (our supposed representatives in Washington) refuse to rein in their own spending. They blow money like crazy, toss it into an endless array of pointless "projects," then have the audacity to sit there and tell us that we need to "buckle down."

Hubby and I were just talking the other day about the absurdity of the fact that in this country (America) it is not only legal but increasingly accepted for a woman to have her unborn child killed via abortion, yet anyone who murders a pregnant woman can be charged with TWO counts of murder, at least in some jurisdictions. Not sure about nation-wide. The point being, of course, that it is a blatant double standard that no one seems to want to acknowledge. Now, if this notion of infanticide being no different or worse than abortion picks up, how are they going to distinguish between parents who decide their newborns are just too much of a burden and child abusers who take the beatings or shaking too far? How long before all those women out there demanding that the baby inside them is not a human being pick up on this and start insisting that they ought to be able to carry that "non-human" to term and give birth before they are forced to decide if they want to let it live or not? Imagine the scenario: "Gosh, that's an ugly baby. Why don't we just kill this one off and try again? I'm too pretty to have a baby that ugly." It WILL happen.

What you find amusing, those of us who actually live here find offensive. It isn't about people on a "high income" being asked to pay "a little more tax." It's about the middle class being taxed to death with none of the loopholes, shelters, or breaks afforded to the super rich and low income, and with no consideration given to rates of inflation or any other issues that impact the disposable income of tax payers.