Believer112

...Or something that is seldom considered...two things occured...the guys spoke in other tongues, but a supernatural phenomena took place through the unction of the Holy Spirit which enabled every person gathered there to hear what was being spoken in his own language...this would rule out many logistical problems and the idea of a babbling mass of confusion. It also seems to be the only recorded incidence of such an occurance. I agree, because v 13 the ones mocking could not pick up at least one of the "languages" spoken?? I'm not the sharpest pencil in the box but I can recognize foreign languages when spoken around me.

I believe we receive the Spirit of God when saved. There is also an occurrence of being filled or baptized in the Holy Spirit, to where the ability speaking in tongues comes into effect. I wish I had the gift of faith to believe ALL of Mk 16:17,18 . My mind won't allow me to have the faith to believe the snakes and poison thing and probably will die because of my unbelief. Most Christians don't believe a lot of scriptures by faith because of a carnal mind. I believe like you in Corinthians that Paul had all of the special supernatural gifts because of of the evidence in the NT.

Why is there an insistence to claim that what happens today is babbling? I meant no offense. But, it sounds like babbling to me. Well, when you hear a foreign language you have never heard before, does it sound any less gibberish? I don't see your point. When I hear a foreign language with sounds I do not recognize, it sounds like gibberish - or babbling (I am thinking of the terms synonymously). Does it not sound like babbling to you? Of course, but so what. That has nothing to do with anything. Biblical toungues were earthly languages. The Book of Acts spells this out perfectly. Acts 2 5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. Is it possible the multitude who received the Holy Ghost was given the ability to interpret the tongues. Twelve apostles speaking every language of (every nation under heaven. v5)? How many languages were there? Acts 2 13 Others mocking said, “They are full of new wine.” It seems odd that these guys did not recognize one single language that was spoken. I believe these folks did not receive the Holy Spirit and thought they were babbling.

Yes, I speak in tongues. The second part I answered "some what" but the clear answer to me is that it's very important for self edification. Speaking in tongues has nothing to do with being saved but it has to do with be baptized or filled with the Holy Ghost.

Fighting or strife? James 3:16 King James Version (KJV) 16For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work. Brother I'm curious? what if you would have told her "Honey I love you very much and what you said is not truthful" and walked away and prayed. Do you think the fight would have escalated? Proverbs 13:10 King James Version (KJV) 10Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom. Proverbs 17:14 New King James Version (NKJV) 14 The beginning of strife is like releasing water; Therefore stop contention before a quarrel starts. In other words pride causes strife. Pride is being self centered. It's what she said or did to "ME". Brother the only person you have control over is yourself. You can't control how your wife treats you but you can definitely control the way you react. There's a teaching of God's kind of Love through you (self centeredness) by Andrew Wommack that help transform my marriage. http://www.awmi.net/extra/audio/1055 May God's word bless your marriage.

We need more Politicians standing up for Israel even if he is a Mormon. By the way, there's a bunch of Christians that know the importance of Israel.

Hatch for President! http://aclj.org/israel

I don't know how to explain it any other way. John 12:47-48 New King James Version (NKJV) 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him

But the way Believer wrote it initially, I was given the impression what Jesus said had no bearing on that church, for he said something to the effect of the judgment not having happened yet. Nebula maybe my definition of judgment is different than yours. When I read the NT, the term judgment usually means at the Lord

If this is so, then who were the churches Jesus spoke these things to? The cities those churches belonged to no longer exist. Rev 2: 7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. I believe the warning to the churches then apply to the churches of today. The church of Laodicea seems like a lot of churches today. Or it could be my imagination. So, when He told the church in Ephesus He would remove their lampstand, He was not referring to them? Yes to Ephesus and chrches today , but I believe there is a symbolic meaning for lampstand and i'm not smart enough to figure it out yet. Is this lampstand the menorah? mizzy or candice might have more info on the menorah, I know i'ts complicated. Also lampstand is mentioned in Rev 11:4 and my NIV study bible says it's the Spirit of the Lord (Zec 4). If it is the Spirit of the Lord couldn't He remove His Spirit from a church today?

I already explained that, Jesus prayed as a man(Hebrews 5:7) because God by definition does not pray. The Son is not a separate person, the Son is the flesh of God, God manifested in the flesh. As a man Jesus prayed, but as God Jesus answered prayer, and I told everyone not to try to say that Jesus wouldnt pray to himself, because how can you have three persons in a godhead praying to one another and still be one God without ultimately saying that God prayed to himself? Philippians 2:9-11 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. These scriptures seem to seperate God and Jesus. Matthew 24:36 36

If this is so, then who were the churches Jesus spoke these things to? The cities those churches belonged to no longer exist. Rev 2: 7 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. I believe the warning to the churches then apply to the churches of today. The church of Laodicea seems like a lot of churches today. Or it could be my imagination.

What about the 5 churches in Rev. 2-3 whom Jesus rebuked? He said if they did not repent they would suffer consequences from His hand - "I will remove your lampstand, "I will fight against [those who hold the false teaching] with the sword of My mouth," "I will strike [the false prophetess'] churches dead," "I will come to you like a thief," "I will spew you out of My mouth." How do you reconcile these with what you have said? I believe these things will happen on the Day of the Lord. God is warning us to repent or we will not see heaven. If you read further Rev 2: 7, 11 God talks about tree of life and second death all these will happen at the second coming. Revelation 2:16 Sword of My mouth, I believe second coming Revelation 2:17 The meaning of white stone in my NIV study bible says

No offence taken 1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 1 Cor. 15:3-4 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 1 John 2: 1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. Hebrews 10: 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. I believe Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and God is not judging us unless Christs sacrifice was insufficient. I personally feel America is being cursed for our disobedience. Unless you feel we are in the tribulations?

I don't agree with his statement. Christ died for our sins so I don't think God will judge us for them. I do believe God will someday judge those who have rejected Christ. I think God is lifting His blessings from our country especially if we keep turning our backs on Israel.

There is no need to work, do good or avoid sins to keep God from loving us. We are saved by God's grace thru faith in Jesus. As our relationship with God develops, good works come naturally. When saved we are all equal in God's eye's, God see's Jesus in each one of us. HE is no respecter of persons. Avoiding sins all has to do with how much we love God. We tend to sin because we love ourselves more than God or anyone else. Most sin comes from our selfish desires or whats in our heart. Siblings sometimes work to gain their fathers approval. They'll actually do mean things to each other to get it. Bottom line it's all done for personal gain which is selfishness. My God is a God of LOVE. God created each one of us and It doesn't make any sense that He would have us kill one another to be with Him, does it? Our religion teaches us that the battle is not against flesh and blood but against spiritual forces.

The devil uses our self centeredness against us. If we could learn to die to ourselves nothing would offend us.

A couple of years ago science (origin science) was a major stumbling block for me in believing the literal interpretation of the bible. It's the same stumbling block that affects some of the non believers at my job. I started looking at the alternatives ID and creationism and found that there are arguments against the mainstream theory. If origins science can create doubt about the truthfulness of the word of God then it's of the devil. There are spiritual forces Good and Evil moving in all areas of our lives. Origin science is satanic in that it goes against God's word. We have non believers and some Christians arguing with creationists (Bible believing Christians) over something unproven. If you manipulate the first book of the bible in your thinking, what other books have you manipulated? I believe satan used these antichrists to deceive the world. Darwin's ideas, along with those of Adam Smith and Karl Marx, had a profound influence on 19th century thought. Perhaps the most radical claim of the theory of evolution through natural selection is that "elaborately constructed forms, so different from each other, and dependent on each other in so complex a manner" evolved from the simplest forms of life by a few simple principles. This claim inspired some of Darwin's most ardent supportersand provoked the most profound opposition. The radicalism of natural selection, according to Stephen Jay Gould,[53] lay in its power to "dethrone some of the deepest and most traditional comforts of Western thought". In particular, it challenged long-standing beliefs in such concepts as a special and exalted place for humans in the natural world and a benevolent creator whose intentions were reflected in nature's order and design. In the words of the philosopher Daniel Dennett[54], "Darwin's dangerous idea" of evolution by natural selection is a "universal acid" which cannot be kept restricted to any vessel or container, as it soon leaks out, working its way into ever wider surroundings. Thus, in the last decades the concept of natural selection has spread from evolutionary biology into virtually all disciplines, including evolutionary computation, quantum darwinism, evolutionary economics, evolutionary epistemology, evolutionary psychology and cosmological natural selection. This unlimited applicability has been called Universal Darwinism. http://en.wikipedia....tural_selection As stated by evolutionists: "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down." Charles Darwin, Origin of Species "Evolution...must be gradual when it is being used to explain the coming into existence of complicated, apparently designed objects, like eyes. For if it is not gradual in these cases, it ceases to have any explanatory power at all. Without gradualness in these cases, we are back to miracle..." Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden The basis for their claim: only intelligent design can directly produce complexity You fight the fight for evolution yet there should be more in the fossil records. You have your beliefs over the bible and over something that hasn't been proven. George Gaylord Simpson, long considered the dean of vertebrate paleontologists, says "There is...a systematic deficiency in the record of the history of life. It is thus possible to claim that such transitions are not recorded because they did not exist, that the changes were not by transition but by sudden leaps in evolution." Of course, there are no such things as "leaps" in macro-evolution. Only by the operation of intelligent design can you see a whole suite of new features appear together at once. (source required) Clark (A.H.) says "Since we have not the slightest evidence, either among the living or the fossil animals, of any intergrading types following the major groups, it is a fair supposition that there never have been any such intergrading types." (source required) Stephen Jay Gould, the co-founder of the theory of punctuated equilibrium "The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at their tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils." One wonders exactly why the inference is reasonable! Only the prior assumption of the naturalistic world-view would make such an inference reasonable...but that is not science, it is religion. (source required) Steven Jay Gould points out in his book Wonderful Life (after admitting that he will simply dodge the question of how such complexity could form without leaving any trace) that the cambrian fossils contradict the prediction from macro-evolution in another way as well: the so-called cone of increasing diversity should actually be stood on its head. There is more fundamental diversity in body plans right there at the beginning than there is later. How to explain this by the theory of macro-evolution? http://www.xenos.org...s/evolution.htm More quotes on fossil records http://www.bibleprob.../objection.html God created man in His own Image. What's so hard about believing that? Have faith!

D-9 this is how I feel and he speaks for me. Since I am attempting to take a break from debates that get my mind going I am going to bow out of this thread for the time being. This Declaration is how i feel also.

I believe before he comes to power. Luke 21 The Coming of the Son of Man 25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." Jesus said to look up when these things begin to happen. So I'm gonna start looking up. In the Gospels "cloud" is mentioned several times. Luke 9:34-35, 21:27 to mention a couple. Could it be that we are confusing coming in the clouds with His second coming? Because in Revelation 19:11 there is no mention of a cloud. God has come in a cloud in several places in the bible. The Importance of Watching 34 "But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. 35 For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man." How is that day going to come upon us unexpectedly of we are going thru the tribulations? Scriptures give us a timeline of Jesus return. So we'll pretty much know after the antichrist comes on the scene we have seven years of hell. Who is worthy to escape? Revelation 3:10 (New International Version, ©2011) 10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth. Who will be kept from the hour of trials?

Wow! this is the topic of the year. Why is everyone wielding the Word of God at each other? We use His word as a sword to cut the others heart out. Pride keeps us arguing, and over Lazarus and NDE . We have Christians here that are slow to edify and quick to condemn and insecure ones that have to publicly justify their faith There are a few testimonies of NDE's of visions of heaven or hell and a few of these people get born again because of their experience. Instead of Praising God for another one added to the kingdom of God we critique the vision. If the persons fruits are for God then it was from God. Thanks be to God for His only begotten Son!

My 3 year old granddaughter tells me stories of the shows we watch together and it

Link March Newsletter - 2011 MIDDLE EAST DOMINOES Millions of people all over the world are asking about whether or not Middle East governments are going to fall like dominoes as a result of the "Wikileaks" revolution, internet availability and the awakening of Middle East youth to instant touch button technologies that allow anyone in the world to know what is happening anywhere else in the world within micro-seconds. Indeed, calls by world leaders such as US President Mubarack Hussein Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel that democracy be immediately accepted by Middle East regimes to replace authoritarian rule, are also increasing the fervor of demonstators in Tahrir Square, in Tunisia, Yemen, Jordan, and other countries that until now have been under authoritarian rule from the first days of human history. But is the fervor of the demonstrators a democratic fervor, or is there some other ominous and ulterior motive the driving force for the Middle East tumult? Is such a thing as "Jeffersonian Democracy a la Americana" possible in the Middle East? How is it that America and Western Europe evolved over the centuries into democracies while no such thing has been possible in Islamic countries until now? Western Civilization and Democracy (in a nutshell!) are based on God, the Judeo-Christian Bible, Greek philosophy and thought, Roman republicanism, the Magna Carta (1215 AD-CE) limiting the totalitarian powers of Prince John in England, the Protestant Reformation, Voltaire (who said: I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it), Thomas Payne, the American Revolutionary war 1775-1783 (No-taxation without representation), the Emancipation Declaration (freeing American slaves) in 1863, and the female suffrage movement of Susan B. Anthony in the US in the 1920's, just to mention a few. Western Civilization and Democracy are an ongoing evolutionary process of hundreds if not thousands of years. In the Middle East, all of the above elements do not exist. For Western Civilization and Democracy based on the Judeo-Christian Bible, the two most important commandments for all for Jews and Christians are: Love the Lord thy God, and Love thy neighbor as thyself. The Ten Commandments are paramount for all Judeo-Christians: The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; Thou shalt not murder; Thou shalt not steal; Thou shalt not bear false witness; Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor and that which is thy neighbor's. Even for atheists, apostates and new-agers, these Ten Commandments serve as a basis of our Western Civilization and Democracy. In the Middle East, all of the above elements to not exist. On the contrary, Allah, the god of Islam, the basis of faith of the vast majority of Middle Eastern people is a pagan, moon-god, war-god and sword-god. Killing the Jew on Saturday and the Christian on Sunday is at the heart of their system. When asked about democracy in the Middle East, the Saudis in their broadcasts say: "Democracy over our dead bodies." Killing, lying (taqqiya), stealing and coveting in the name of Allah are commandments. They kill the Jews on Saturday, Christians on Sunday, Hindus, Buddhists and Blacks in Africa any day and then the Moslems kill each other with no regrets. Israel had five wars with Egypt: 1948, 1956, 1967, 1968-70 (War of Attrition), 1973. Israel was forced to take Sinai three times in wars of self-defense. American presidents made Israel return Sinai to Egypt three times, the last of which brought about a peace agreement which has lasted until now. This peace agreement was important for Israel. Israel's population grew during this period from 4.7 million to 7.5 million with many new immigrants coming from the former USSR, Ethiopia and the West. Israel's economy stands out like a sparkling diamond compared to our neighbors and even many economies of the West. Many people say this would have been impossible without peace with Egypt. They are, to a great extent, correct. Peace with Jordan also included return of land in the Arava to Jordan. Peace with Jordan was also critical for Israel's security and economy. Israel handed over land to the Palestinian Authority, and a modus vivendi was established which in Jewish eyes was to be a Palestinian autonomous entity, and for the Arabs in their opinion a Palestinian state. For this reason Israel handed over lands, or hard assets for peace which seems in our case to become a vanishing asset. President Mubarak had thirty years to prepare Egypt for a new relationship with Israel. But the media, the unions, the establishment in Egypt, the military all continued to view Israel as the enemy. Now virtually all the reformist groups protesting in Tahrir Square in Cairo call for the revoking of the peace with Israel and some even call for the shutting down of the Suez Canal, because shutting the Suez Canal would wreak havoc on the world economy and destroy the Christian West. The Moslem Brotherhood of Egypt has called for an immediate war of annihilation of Israel as soon as they come to power. And US President Mubarak Hussein Obama supports the Moslem Brotherhood! US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is happy to negotiate with them. As soon as they come to power, God-forbid, the Moslem Brotherhood will wipe out all the other reformist groups just as Khomeini did in Iran in 1979, and a war with Israel will be imminent after Israel withdrew from the hard asset of Sinai three times under the pressure of US presidents and the world. In Jordan, many protesters are also calling for a cessation of peace with Israel and a new war. Lebanon has been virtually taken over by Hizbollah backed by Iran. Turkey has a fanatic Hamas-type government that now views Israel as the enemy after decades that Israel and Turkey were allies. Some of the common links between these Islamic country dominoes is hatred of the Jews and Christians, hatred of democracy, hatred of women's rights, continued slavery, especially in Africa and a runaway population explosion. And these countries are going to drive away any foreign investment in their infrastructure which will mean tens of millions of Moslems fleeing to the greener pastures of the West where there is such infrastructure and possibility to feed their families. America which already has 20 million Moslems as compared to 5-6 million Jews will soon have another 20 or 30 million Moslems. (America's Moslem population today is as follows: 9 million Iranians who fled the 1979 revolution, 7 million Arabs, and 3 million Black Muslims in addition to a various assortment of others). The US will no longer be a Judeo-Christian country but a Christian-Moslem nation. Obama already said it in his inaugural address. In a U-Tube made of me by Pastor Carl Gallups in Florida in 2010, I was quoted correctly, based on my wife's radio/tv monitoring of the Egyptian Nile TV on January 19th, 2010, that Egyptian Foreign Minister Abul Gheit stated that he had had a one-on-one meeting with President Obama who swore to him that Obama was a Moslem, his father a Moslem, step-father a Moslem, half-brothers in Kenya Moslems, and that after he overcame his domestic problems in the US, he would show the Moslem world what he would do to Israel. What better way is there to destroy Israel (in Obama's eyes) than to bring about a regime change in Egypt in which the Moslem Brotherhood launches a war of innihilation against Israel. Obama will use the poor Egyptians as his proxy to destroy Israel or so he thinks. And most Americans and westerners are clueless. What happens when more Islamic nations undergo fanaticization and join the march on Jerusalem? Obama has proven he has stabbed Mubarak in the back as well as any other "moderate" leader in the Middle East. America under Obama is radiating weakness. This emboldens the fanatics. Wikileaks was the match that lit the fire. Islam is the gunpowder and Obama is fanning the flames to create the "Perfect Storm." Will this lead to Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 17? We should also watch Egypt to see if the prophesy in Ezekiel 29: 9,10 comes to pass. I also heard the Aswan damn is in the location of "the tower of Syene"