SavedByGrace1981

Where Is God in Hurricane Harvey? BY TYLER O'NEIL SEPTEMBER 1, 2017 CHAT 303 COMMENTS Jannett Martinez holds her cat Gigi as she rides a boat out of her neighborhood which was inundated after water was released from nearby Addicks Reservoir when it reached capacity due to Tropical Storm Harvey on Tuesday, Aug. 29, 2017, in Houston, Texas. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel) Hurricane Harvey has left at least 44 people dead, and that number is likely to increase during clean-up. The storm has displaced over 30,000 people, cost an estimated $190 billion in damage, and dropped 19 trillion gallons of water over southeast Texas (and 5.5 trillion gallons over Louisiana). Harvey isn't done yet, and Hurricane Irma is coming up close behind. Where is God in all this? Christians believe in a good, loving God. How could such devastation take place on His watch? This is an age-old problem, and the answers to it are far from easy. Even if the answers are true, they are likely to fall on deaf ears and sound callous to those who are truly suffering. Ultimately, God does not provide a justification or an answer, but something far greater. Furthermore, despite the utter devastation from Hurricane Harvey, even such a natural disaster pales in comparison to the evil, injustice, genocide, death, and disease suffered by people across the centuries. To those in the center of pain and suffering, the goodness, love, and even existence of God can seem a very false indeed. Before addressing where God was in Houston during Harvey, it is important to delve into the big picture — what C.S. Lewis succinctly called The Problem of Pain. "If God were good, He would wish to make His creatures perfectly happy, and if God were almighty, He would be able to do what He wished. But the creatures are not happy. Therefore God lacks either goodness, or power, or both," Lewis wrote. The Christian scholar addressed God's goodness and His power, arguing that God can only do things that are intrinsically possible. He cannot both give humans free will and not give it to them at the same time, for example. Furthermore, God's goodness is of a higher order than human goodness, and His overall plan may be infinitely good and still involve pain and suffering. In his book The Problem of God: Answering a Skeptic's Challenges to Christianity, Vancouver pastor Mark Clark addressed this issue head on. "We must admit that an omnipotent being could permit as much evil as he pleased 'so long as for every evil state of affairs he permits, there is a greater good.'" SPONSORED Furthermore, the very strength of the argument against God in the "problem of pain" poses a problem. It supposes that human suffering is a categorical evil. As Clark asked, "Where do we get the idea that human beings are important, that human life has value, and that human beings should be protected and loved instead of tortured and disposed of?" Jim Carrey: "I Believe That Suffering Leads to Salvation — It's the Only Way" "When I was an atheist, my argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust?" Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity. "What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? Of course I could have just given up my idea of justice by saying that it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed, too." The biggest problem with naturalistic Darwinistic atheism is that people have a sense of right and wrong, and people bristle at the idea that these are just traits of evolution, rather than true moral signposts. Christianity has an answer to this: Human beings, made in the image of God, intrinsically know good and evil, even though their consciences have been clouded by sin. This view makes sense of the evils throughout history, and provides a perspective from which Americans can judge Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin as objectively evil. But it also serves as a warning, that humans are sinful and may not see their own wickedness in its proper light. This is one of the reasons Americans have trouble conceiving the justice of hell. Pain is part of God's justice in rewarding sinners, but very often the wicked get away with little pain in this life, while those who seem like good people suffer the most. In the Bible, God's chosen people seem to suffer the most, and the Psalms are chock-full of complaints about the success of the wicked and the suffering of the righteous. As Clark wrote, "All through the Scriptures God uses suffering to make people who they are, to refine them. Moses, Abraham, David, Job, Paul, and of course, Jesus himself are examples of lives in which the most awful evil and suffering is turned into a greater good." In his book David and Goliath, Malcolm Gladwell documented the lives of many successful entrepreneurs and leaders who achieved success not in spite of challenges and suffering in life, but because of them. Gladwell called this "the advantage of disadvantage," arguing that challenges in life helped strengthen these people and make them successful. The best example of this actually comes from the Bible itself. "You meant evil against me, but God meant it for good," Joseph told his brothers in Genesis 50:20. Those very brothers betrayed Joseph, selling him into slavery, but through his faithfulness, hard work, and faith in God, Joseph was able to rise to the position of Grand Vizier in Egypt and save his family from a famine. Talk about "the advantage of disadvantage!" Stories of heroism have come left and right out of Hurricane Harvey. The Cajun Navy, the Chick-fil-A saving a stranded family, fathers carrying their wives and children to safety. But none of this makes the suffering any less real. Clark quoted Tim Keller's Walking with God through Pain and Suffering, in discussing the Christian attitude to suffering: "Christianity teaches that, contra fatalism, suffering is overwhelming; contra Buddhism, suffering is real; contra karma, suffering is often unfair; but contra secularism, suffering is meaningful." 5 Lies Americans Believe About Sin Suffering is the gap between satisfaction and desire. Buddhists suggest pulling desire back to match satisfaction, while the modern West advises pushing satisfaction up to meet desire. Christianity says the problem is in the heart. And the solution? God Himself entering that suffering and giving it meaning. Ultimately, Christianity does not present an answer to the problem of suffering. It presents a person — Jesus Christ, the God who created the universe, in human flesh, stripped almost naked, whipped and scourged, and executed in a horrific, painful, and humiliating manner. So where is God in Hurricane Harvey? God is with the family stranded on top of their roof in the flooding. God is with the people who abandon everything as the waters destroy their property. God is with the drowning men and women. Because according to the Bible, God died, too – and He didn't just die. Jesus Christ rose again from the dead three days later. He used that suffering to redeem all of humanity. None of this makes it any easier for people to lose their homes, to wait in vain for rescue, or to die in such horrible disasters. That's not the point. The point isn't to answer all the questions or to make the suffering go away, but to join the people in the midst of their anguish. God says to these people, "I see your suffering, it is unjust, and I suffered first. Learn from me how to suffer, and it will be worth it." In the words of St. Paul, "For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us." (Romans 8:18) That is the hope of Christianity — that Jesus Christ suffered unjustly for every man, woman, and child who places their faith in Him, and that at the last day they will be raised in glory to join God Himself. "It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo," Samwise Gamgee said in The Lord of the Rings. "The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were, and sometimes you didn't want to know the end because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened?" "But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow," Sam continued. "Even darkness must pass. A new day will come, and when the sun shines, it'll shine out the clearer. Those are the stories that stuck with you, that meant something, even if you were too small to understand why." If you believe in Jesus Christ, and you suffer, God is there with you, suffering. He promises a new life and glories you are not able to think of. The suffering is real, it is horrible, but it is meaningful, even if you and I are too small to understand why. https://pjmedia.com/faith/2017/09/01/where-is-god-in-hurricane-harvey/

I know you didn't address your question directly to me, but I'll take a stab at answering it. I'll start by saying however this isn't meant to be a 'one size fits all' answer. As you said, the country is post-Christian and the moral decay is terminal. I agree with those sentiments - so to me that means that what we can accomplish at the ballot box is very limited. We simply don't have the numbers. And, even if we did, our elected officials seem to have discovered they can go against the people's will and STILL remain in office. Keep in mind, however, that the 1st century Christians didn't even HAVE a ballot box OR the numbers, either - yet they were able to (eventually) turn the world upside-down. So the simple answer (and this IS for all Christians) is we PRAY, and we DO (in accordance with the Holy Spirit's leading). We DO by donating resources and/or time to crisis pregnancy centers. We DO by attempting to educate those close to us - friends, family members, their children - of the down side to pre-marital sex. That is certainly a message they are NOT getting from the culture at large. But back to the ballot box: that part is up to the individual, but as for me I likely will not be participating in any more elections. For one, I live in a deep blue state so my ideals about government and my beliefs are not at all represented. True I live in a rural, somewhat conservative part of the state, but the state as a whole is literally insane with liberalism. The governor said a few years ago that "conservative, pro-life Christians" have no place in NY State. That thinking is prevalent in the state capital. But whether or not to vote is strictly up to the individual, in my opinion. Christians in this area (as in all areas) should do as the Holy Spirit leads. Blessings, -Ed

But that's just it - she's not average, she's royalty. She's a Clinton. Norms, standards and rules do not apply. Wait - we interrupt this posting for a Worthy News Alert ALERT: ALERT: ALERT: Stand by for "well Trump thinks he's royalty, too". Stand by in 3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . . Blessings, -Ed

I love this. I'm old enough to remember there was initially no public interest in Watergate, either. But after two years of relentless non-stop coverage by the media of the day, it resulted in a president resigning. So is it a 'chicken-vs.-egg' question? Which came first? Public interest RESULTING in media coverage; or media coverage resulting in public interest? Depends on one's agenda, I suppose. Blessings, -Ed

Short term: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/20150821_gulag.jpg Long term: http://cdn.knowing-jesus.com/wp-content/uploads/Revelation-22-20-Yes-I-Come-Quickly-black-copy.jpg Blessings, -Ed

Hmmmm . . . I suppose I could boycott Coca-cola, but I don't drink it to begin with. How then should I demonstrate my outrage? Suggestions? Blessings, -Ed

I have an idea to streamline the process of posting articles in the US NEWS or US NEWS/POLITICS sections. Have one of the programmers design a template that looks something like this: ____________ [outraged entity] has a meltdown over ____________________ [Trump outrage of the day]. All the poster would have to do is fill in the first blank (e.g. Michael Moore; CNN; Chuck Schumer), fill in the second blank (e.g. what Trump did; what Trump didn't do; what Trump said; what Trump didn't say), and then provide a link to the article. Voila! There you have it! The latest Trump outrage posted in seconds - rather than minutes. The wonders of modern technology! Blessings, -Ed

I wonder how the Romans built aqueducts and roads that have lasted two millennia - through all kinds of 'climate change' . . . WITHOUT Obama administration regulations? Imagine what they could have done if they'd had them! Blessings, -Ed

That's a valid point. Hearkening back to our 'fiscal conservative' discussion, perhaps 'we the people' will do our part and monitor their actions. One can hope, anyway. Blessings, -Ed

You and I had a discussion on a different thread about fiscal conservatism. I see this as one rare opportunity for republicans to actually BE fiscally conservative - I would think you would applaud it. Whether or not there is a correlation between PP funding and the abortion rate is a separate debate - one that belongs in the private sector. I'm sure the Bill Gates' and Warren Buffets' of the world will be more than happy to fund PP. Leave our tax dollars out of it. Blessings, -Ed

It's stories like this that cause us to remember there are more people of good will than it sometimes seems. God Bless 'Mattress Mack'! -Ed

When it comes to pro-life issues, I've been critical of republicans for being all talk and no action over the years. This will give us the opportunity to see if that is a valid criticism. If they actually DO anything, I'll be first to praise them. Blessings, -Ed

The World’s Debt to Jesus Christ BY EDWARD K. WATSON AUGUST 19, 2017 The West’s Christian heritage is being erased from our consciousness by our political, educational, and media elites. Somehow, the scientific and technological products that originated in the West now arose in a vacuum. Universities like Harvard, Yale, Oxford, and Cambridge have been going to great lengths to minimize or even deny Christians had anything to do with their establishment, but their debt to Christians is undeniable. The fact is everyone on earth owes a great debt to Jesus Christ because those influenced by his teachings were directly responsible for virtually everything that makes our lives the most enjoyable and productive in human history. Christians, and the Jews and other non-believers living and working within the Christian milieu of Europe and North America in the past 500 years, gave the world the notions of inherent human rights. They forced the abolition of human sacrifice, slavery, infanticide, and cannibalism wherever they had influence. They drove the criminalization of pedophilia, rape, and torture. They invented universities, hospitals, modern banks, universal literacy, education degrees, academic accreditation, property rights, mass production, intellectual property rights, separation of church and state, freedom of speech, and many more benefits and “rights” that we take for granted. They developed the foundation for virtually every invention that we enjoy today (cell phones, cars, planes, computers, air conditioners, televisions, and tens of thousands of other inventions). Christianity was the soil that allowed the notion that adultery, even if done by men with unmarried women or with their slaves, is wrong. It gave us the novel ideas of civil rights, women’s rights, children’s rights, animal rights, environmentalism, and equitable welfare program and public health care. We need to ask: What do Isaac Newton, Leonhard Euler, Carl Gauss, Wilhelm Leibniz, Antoine-Laurent Lavoisier, Johannes Kepler, Galileo Galilei, Louis Pasteur, Nicolaus Copernicus, Michael Faraday, James Clerk Maxwell, Dmitri Mendeleev, Leonardo da Vinci, and hundreds of other scientific and mathematical geniuses who founded our modern world have in common? What do Albert Einstein, Niels Bohr, J. Robert Oppenheimer, Edward Teller, Werner Heisenberg, Erwin Schrödinger, Paul Dirac, Linus Pauling, Richard Feynman, Max Planck, Edwin Hubble, Francis Crick, Enrico Fermi, Jonas Salk, Alexander Fleming, and many other 20th century figures have in common? SPONSORED The answer is that all these figures have an undeniable debt to Christianity’s influence on their own work. The “rational” Western Christian environment they lived in allowed and encouraged free inquiry. It gave recognition, honor, authority, and financial rewards to those who succeeded in advancing knowledge. It gave them the opportunity of obtaining an education within institutions created by Christians, and it provided them with the means to formulate and refine their ideas and it circulated their work across the world. The New Testament: The World's Only Unedited, Frameless, Correlative Anthology Without Christianity, the foundations of modern science and technology could’ve never been made since of the four largest world religions, it was only Christianity’s theology, cosmology, and cultural practices that allowed for their establishment, and eventual spread across the world. This is why there ar no Moslem, Hindu, or Buddhist figures outside the West and its influences that can be shown to have impacted the whole world comparable to these figures. There’s no doubt men like C.V. Raman, Satyendra Nath Bose, Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar, and the frighteningly brilliant Srinivasa Ramanujan made great contributions; but they were done completely within the Western scientific and mathematical establishments built by Christians. Despite the world's tendency to dismiss the influence of Christianity upon the modern world by pretending all it did was exist prior to modern institutions, the truth is the opposite: So overwhelming is the entire modern secular scientific world’s reliance on foundations and formulas developed or improved upon by Christians that it is absurd to deny it. We’ve forgotten that our civilization’s privileges are new and undeniably superior to the alternatives in human history. Whenever other great civilizations like the Chinese, Indian, Japanese, or Korean nations encountered Christian missionaries, they always revamped their cultures to align themselves with the Christian message, because the benefits Christianity brought were so blatantly superior to the average person as well as the state. Thus, they abandoned slavery and polygamy, set up charities, hospitals, and universities, implemented scientific instruction and widespread education of the masses to make literacy universal, reduced or eliminated the absolute power of the monarch, and established rules detailing the inherent rights of their citizens – even if they rejected the Christian doctrine that directly caused those benefits in the West. “Christianity” is why all civilized nations have laws that are universal among all civilized nations. Without it, there wouldn’t be any freedom of speech, freedom of and from religion, freedom of travel, freedom of assembly, property rights, and so forth. The world didn’t get them from Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Shintoism, Taoism, or the Bahá'í—they came from Christianity and from those whose moral compass was guided by it. It is why someone can leave and ridicule the dominant religion without fear in Salt Lake City or Rome but get killed if done in Mecca. The Resurrection of Jesus Christ Is the Most Important Event In History If Jesus Christ never existed, there never would’ve been an England, or France, or Spain, or Germany, or the United States. Without Jesus Christ and his teachings, the world would be a very different, uglier, and much more miserable place. Half of our children would die before their fifth birthday, our average life expectancy would be below 40, and one out of every four of us would die violent deaths. Most of us would be peasant farmers ruled by superstition, and only a minority of us would even know how to read. There’s no doubt Jesus has and is continuing to have the greatest positive impact on the world and everyone, regardless of country, race, religion, or culture, has directly benefitted from his influence. Something to be grateful for when observing and hearing those trying to erase Christianity from history. Note: This article is derived from this author’s upcoming book,"Is Jesus “God?" https://pjmedia.com/faith/2017/08/19/the-worlds-debt-to-jesus-christ/

Hardly. His administration gave us wage and price controls and the EPA. He may have been in his heart a fiscal conservative, but he certainly didn't govern that way. I still contend we haven't had a fiscal conservative since Coolidge (and it takes more than a POTUS, anyway). The republican party back then was also probably fiscally conservative. It's easy to become a spend thrift in government (whether one considers themselves liberal or conservative). It's almost like it's the default position. By contrast, it takes work PLUS an educated voting populace to advance fiscal conservatism. Both of which are in very short supply. Amen! Blessings, -Ed

Your timeline is out of sequence. One - we haven't had a fiscal conservative elected to the presidency since the 1920's. So called social conservatism has had nothing to do with it since it didn't even exist. You continually deride 'social conservatives' - but what about the 'social liberals' that created them? Countless social issues (like abortion) were at one time the purview of the states. A few liberal states allowed abortions - most did not. But the constant push - push - push of the social liberals achieved for them just what they wanted - culminating in 1973 with Roe V. Wade. And with one fell swoop, the laws of the 50 states were overturned and a national hot button issue was created. And the Constitution was torn to shreds. Of course the social liberals weren't satisfied, they never are. They have, to this day, sought new hurdles to conquer. Definition of marriage. Transgender 'rights'. One by one - the dominoes fall. And you expect that there shouldn't have been - and won't continue to be - push back? No, the lack of fiscal conservatism has little to nothing to do with 'social conservatism.' Don't you see? Once it was established (back in the 1930's, way before 'social conservatism) that politicians could use our own money to buy votes and perpetuate themselves in office, it was inevitable that government would continue to grow bigger and more intrusive. It is not in the interest of politicians of either political party - or more accurately the people who buy them - to have it any other way. Blessings, -Ed

I think we may have to come up with a new category for news items relating to Trump and his activities. I even have an idea of what to call it: The Daily Explosion Blessings, -Ed

Why is that not surprising? Blessings, -Ed

I'm sure the republicans in Congress will get right to the bottom of it . . . Blessings, -Ed

It's a good thing Keith Jackson (longtime sportscaster for ABC) is retired - otherwise they'd have to remove him as well. After all, someone might confuse him with "Stonewall" Jackson. Blessings, -Ed

Is this not a discussion about opposing the liberal agenda - which is advanced by democrats and unopposed in any meaningful way by republicans? Then I'm not sure what you mean by "what we DO have". Because in the strictly political realm, we are very limited, indeed. I'm not down or depressed about it though - quite the contrary. I believe politically conservative Christians need to BEGIN by being honest with themselves. Honest with themselves by finally acknowledging that when it comes to opposing liberalism, the republican party - to which many have hitched their wagons - is a sham and a fraud. Once we understand that, perhaps we can then move on to something that is effective. Scripture is replete with examples of people trying to win battles on their own - without relying on the Lord. We Christians serve a God who owns "the cattle on a thousand hills". His riches and resources are without measure. It is difficult to marry the secular with the spiritual. While sometimes we get impatient and want to do things on our own, we should avoid the temptation to act without the guidance of the Holy Spirit. After all, the back of the Book says the 'good guys' prevail, in the end. If this is what you mean by 'what we do have', then I wholeheartedly agree. Blessings, -Ed

Amen! Blessings, -Ed

In other news, the rearrangement of the deck chairs on The Titanic is coming along swimmingly, thank you. Blessings, -Ed

While I agree with all that, in discussions like this I always feel obligated to point out that we have no viable political party that opposes the liberal agenda. I'm not sure where that leaves us - as Christians. For me, I'm registered independent - but I will likely never vote for a major party candidate again. It's something every Christian has to wrestle with. There's not a 'one size fits all' answer. Blessings, -Ed

You're just a few years younger than I, so most likely - if you went to public school - you were exposed to 'progressivism' in your education. The teachers that you and I had likely graduated from teacher's colleges in the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s. John Dewey - a controversial figure to say the least - was a progressive 'humanist' who was very influential in education in the early to mid 20th century. From Wikipedia: Whether 'progressivism' or its modern day sibling 'globalism' came first is - in my opinion - immaterial. It's kind of like a 'chicken or egg' situation. Which ever one came first, their goals dovetail and have merged. Their influence - particularly in public education - has increased exponentially over time. So called 'visionaries' tend to think long term and Dewey was indeed a visionary (though an evil one, in my opinion). It makes perfect sense (from their point of view) - if the goal is to 'fundamentally change society' into some Socialist Utopia, that it would be necessary to start with the children. That is what I base my contention that education was gradually taken over beginning in the late 40s and onward. And we're seeing the results. Blessings, -Ed

I guess I misunderstood - I assumed the crosses, stones and flag were on public land. Since they were on private land, it's up to the owner as to what should be done with them. And you're probably correct - it's a matter of economics. Monuments can serve a legitimate purpose. But the healthy perspective a mature Christian possesses should prevent us from putting them before God. Blessings, -Ed