JohnD

Who are we to question God? What is the purpose of any sacrifice? Did He consult man about our opinion of the cross? How is this questioning God, this is a honest question. Frankly its a good one. I don't know the answer, but I wont spit on the question. Sometimes its best to say I dont know. I've heard it explained once and I'll probably butcher it trying to repeat the explanation for the 1000 year reign. Anyway, it was something to the accord of God is giving us so many years to live under the law with a perfect ruler to show us that we would still rebel against him. Huh.

Messianic Link: Larry Feldman's congregation

Who is to say jealousy is a sin? God is a jealous God and sinless. Guess it's not sin. Simple. If some nut takes a run at your spouse, are you going to actually think you sinned for wanting to "tune them up?" Come on, folks...

So, what IS your position on the matter? Ya know what? I think that this is the first time that I have participated in a conversation on this topic that has actually been civil, no insults thrown around, no hurt feelings, no accusations! This is so great! Bible teaches once you are saved, you are eternally saved. Eternally secure. Question is... are you ( the general you ) truly saved? We can know, don't get me wrong. Just want to point out there are many who believe they are saved and are not. Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV) 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. John 3:16-18 (KJV) 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Nothing at all about being a nice person, no worse than the next guy, ignorant (agnostic), doers of mighty miracles in whomever's name... just belief on the Messiah who sacrificed himself for us.

Which is why some believe the "millennium" is now... the ac is released for a short while and to gather the world against the Holy City again??? When one and the same event could be explained if the reign of Christ is through the Church. We are a kingdom of priests. etc.

If the Bible were being properly taught, these fool claims would be laughed to scorn long before they were given enough credibility by the unbelieving world to throw egg on our faces! The rapture is an escape from the wrath of God about to commence on unbelievers and the beast. It will be at the end of the tribulation of the saints at the hands of the beast and unbelievers. 3.5 years into the 70th Week of Daniel. None of these things have occurred yet.

The altar is what the world buys into... Revelation 13:1-5 (KJV) 1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. The world will love the beast. He will by his return from death and proof that he did do so win the hearts of all with such empirical evidence. All, that is, but Christians / believers in Yeshua Jesus. We have the Holy Spirit residing in us and we are incapable of falling for this deception. The beast will try at first to woo us who do not believe in him. Then he will make us out to be the global criminals responsible for bloodshed and disaster or as the blockers of humanity rising to the next level of existence... and the mark will be used to track down the one people who will not take the mark... believers in Yeshua Jesus... The beast will either claim to be Jesus or he will claim to have been the actual Christ while legend, lore, religious tradition made Jesus of Nazareth the Christ but the beast will claim he never was... backed by the evidence of his return from the dead... the world will buy it hook line and sinker. The rest of your vision is pretty much according to the apocalyptic writings in scripture.

I see its your opinion that there will be no earthly reign of the Messiah on David's throne? Or the vision given to Ezekiel in chpts 40-48 of the rebuilt temple which all will come to to receive His truth per Isa. 2 and elsewhere, or how Zech. 8 tells us 'I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the Lord of hosts, The Holy Mountain.' No false messiah here in these verses. shalom, Mizz Actually I was suggesting that it is the tribulation temple (which never gets destroyed btw) that is cleansed to be the millennial temple. That the sacrifices were during the tribulation under the false messiah affirming the old covenant until he reneges on the affirmation... there will be no sacrifices in the millennium when the true Messiah reigns on earth in Jerusalem enthroned in the Holiest place in the temple. Isaiah 66 (KJV) 1 Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest? 2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. 3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog

You mean your Bible does not have Revelation in it? Perhaps the binding is broken and that book fell out. . . Try reading Revelation chapter 20. . . That "thousand years" (which simply means in Greek an unspecified long period of time akin to our exaggeration "not in a million years..." ) could simply be the past 2000 years (i.e. the Church era the era of grace). But thank you for the snide attitude just the same.

For me, it is so simple. You HAVE TO interpret passages like 2 Thess 2 and Heb 6 in context with John 10:28-29, Jeremiah 32:40, and 1 John 2:19. To do less is to do what all do who misinterpret the scriptures.

Be of good cheer, sister. It's always been like this. The stained glass religious filter the light of truth is often filtered through is a farce. The harp playing angels were there but not audibly as the innkeepers turned away the pregnant Miryam and Yosef in Bayit Lechaim, and a smelly stable was the refuge of the small family from Notsar. The jeers of the perceived illegitimacy of this marriage still burning in their ears and hearts... Yeshua said they persecuted him they're gonna persecute you and me. We the servants are not greater than the Master. Be of good courage. I don't know about you, but when I am down in the dumps it is usually about things not being the way I planned or hoped or dreamed or simply wanted. And when I remind myself it's HIS kingdom, he should worry... I have to laugh at myself and my own foolishness. Why would it be the way I wanted? I'm just another among the billions of folks down here wanting it their way like the people you listed and like a thousand I could list. To God be the glory and the will that is done here on earth as it is in heaven.

It's not that people make scripture say what they wish. It's because it's what scripture says. You can use context arguments to undo statements in certain settings... provided there is no prophetic element to the writing you are discussing. The Bible is mostly about prophecy. Deuteronomy 29:29 (KJV) 29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. Proverbs 25:2 (KJV) 2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. Isaiah 28:10-13 (KJV) 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. 1 Corinthians 13:2 (KJV) 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. Given the weight of: "About walking away... 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (KJV) 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. 1 John 2:19 (KJV) 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. There is is. Eternal security. Can't be taken from God's hand. Can't walk away. And those who do walk away prove by their ability to walk away that they were never saved in the first place. " We can comfortably interpret Jeremiah 32:40 to mean the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is one we will not walk away from.

About walking away... 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (KJV) 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. 1 John 2:19 (KJV) 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. There is is. Eternal security. Can't be taken from God's hand. Can't walk away. And those who do walk away prove by their ability to walk away that they were never saved in the first place.

John 10:28-29 (KJV) 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father

Jeremiah 32:40 (KJV) 40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me. So much for the walk away from Christ theory.

It's an interesting artistic creation. But it's two scenes matted together. The ground / foreground is too static light wise to be the true conditions under the time lapse photography of the sky. But it is interesting. Look here, Gandhi stole the show at the Eisenhower inaugural swearing in... yeah right... Some folks just have access to newer software than folks like me.

I often wondered what the purpose of a millennium serves anyway? I have heard opinions (like a second chance for unbelieving Jews), but never any real scripture to back it up (other than there will be a millennium).

Temecula huh, I lived in Corona/Riverside area for 16 years, had family in Perris and friends who lived in thar hills for decades. Used to work with a great man of God (very passionate for lost souls) who started a Church in Perris / Lake Elsinore.

Millennial? Is there an actual link to the 1000 years and the temple or is this presumed? Food for thought... Could this be a temple of a people mislead by a false messiah into thinking these are good times ? Isaiah 66:1-6 (NASB95) 1 Thus says the Lord,

Here's the problem with that - these ideas tend to spread to other churches and denominations. Aren't you concerned about your fellow brothers and sisters in the body? On the one hand I would say yes... if denominationalism was all that important. John 17 flies in the face of denominationalism and the fact that the Church got so far off course under the Roman Catholic Empire spurred on denominationalism that eventually reveals its true colors in the end... or that it was somehow taken over the way the early Church was by the Romans. What this is more of a call to, IMHO, is to delve further into the Bible to ferret out what is unbiblical in our own beliefs and congregation. Since the Jews have returned to the Holy Land and that about a generation ago... I am not a date setter but rather a signs of the times understander... I don't think there is much time left for much else. And by the way, the leaves have not put forth on the fig tree yet... so the actual generation count down has yet to commence. Still, it is closer now than it was 63 years ago!

Well, I must say I am put off by your impertinence. Cutting right to the chase: Look around you, friend... do you really see the indication that the Church is being salt and light on the world or that the Church is being trampled under the feet of mankind? I could care less about arguing with one who displays such insolence for the truth of scripture simply being told. Good day.

Our Church in San Diego used it and got my wife and I in the habit of using it for our morning devotions. As a translation it is quite good. In honoring the 400 years of the KJV I guess that would be a personal call.

Most who read my posts know I primarily use the KJV. I am not a King James only advocate either. I merely chose it primarily because: All translations have difficulties (which is the fallacy of human language and not the Word of God, btw). The KJV has 400 years now of meticulous scrutiny to discover all difficulties. They are well known. The newer translations while they are quite good are not as scrutinized. Also it challenges me more than a spoon-fed (to me) modern version to look into the meanings of words and to consult the original texts more (which I also have including interlinears and a tanakh). I also use the NIV (yes, I am NIV positive) some call it the nearly inspired version too but some passages in it read more clearly when I am making a point. I also use the NASB quite often I have the Vulgate and LXX also but rarely find the opportunity to use them in forums like this. What I am not BIG on is the use of commentaries, sermons of others, creeds, or other traditions. The Word of God is good enough and when one gets a working knowledge of it they discover it is its own best commentary. I love the KJV in its literary style (which IMHO most closely resembles the original languages especially Hebrew). I won't bore folks with the translational influences and the differences between Greek families of texts or the by passing of the Masoretic text etc... The above translations are all reliable enough for: doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

It takes some doing to read your post, but it was well worth it because it is biblical as far as I can tell. Jesus (preincarnate) is the one Israel dealt with. The Holy Spirit was there as well, but Jesus (not the Father) was who Israel dealt with. John 8:58 (KJV) 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Exodus 3:13-15 (KJV) 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. The Father was there and actively involved in the background of authority. It was he who sent the preincarnate Jesus and the Holy Spirit into the world... often times refereed to as the Angel of YHVH (the LORD): Genesis 22 (KJV) 1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. 2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. 3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him. 4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off. 5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you. 6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together. 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together. 9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood. 10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. 11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen. 15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. 19 So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beersheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beersheba. 20 And it came to pass after these things, that it was told Abraham, saying, Behold, Milcah, she hath also born children unto thy brother Nahor; 21 Huz his firstborn, and Buz his brother, and Kemuel the father of Aram, 22 And Chesed, and Hazo, and Pildash, and Jidlaph, and Bethuel. 23 And Bethuel begat Rebekah: these eight Milcah did bear to Nahor, Abraham

Why do you believe there are only two persons who are God?