Jeanette4

Cheese Louise - I get so tired of Christians squabbling with each other.........I looked up Andy on his website, and their mission statement is just like most Christian mission statements and they have the same belilefs as most Christians, so I don't know where you're coming from with this comment. First, let me answer by saying that a Christian will always die with His Spirit in them. They will never live forever within this body. A lot of what Andy writes is not in accordance to what scripture says. Look on the internet for "Andrew Wommack: 'The MOST DANGEROUS MAN On Christian Television' (prosperity/dominion) ". I would place the link here, but this site stand firmly against posting any link to you tube.

Interesting question Negative_Cool. I would be interested in the replies/answers to this one.............. Thank you for all your replies, its really a mystery isn't it? Something we have to experience, its so good to know that we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit when we come to Jesus and adopted into Gods family, this body we live in and this earth we live on are only temperary,we are travelers marching to our eternal destenation , everyday brings us one day closer..... Isn't it amazing that Jesus loves us so much that He died for our sins?? Isn't that amazing love??? And to know that Gods Spirit lives in you and me? Maranatha Jessu come!

Must admit Bob, I also never understood the whole blood sacrafice thing either.......it seems so, so, barbaric if you will. First of all, the NT passage you cited is referring to a type of slander. It is not slander for the Psalmist to call an unbeliever a fool. Secondly, you are corrupt because of what you are not because of what you do. Everything you do in the context of being an unbeliever is inquity before God. You are incabable of pleasing God. Your best deeds on your best day are as filthy menstrual rags before God. You are born a sinner and you have a sentence of death hanging over your head. You are born separated from God and at enmity with Him. You are under the curse of His law and are going headlong down a path to eternal destruction unless you repent and receive Jesus as your Savior. That is the condition you are in. God loves you enough that He sent His Son to Jesus take upon Himself the penalties of your sin and to provide you with the free gift of eternal life. It is yours for the taking. If you choose continued separation from God, you will face the consequences for that choice. Working under the impression that the God who sent his "only begotten son" to die for my sins, and to pay for the original sin, is the same God that blinked the universe into existence with His Will, does it not seem absurd that this great sacrifice is necessary? If god chooses to forgive his creations for doing that which comes naturally to them, why is this terrific sacrifice necessary? Why are we indebted to the Son of God, an extension of God himself? Why not simply forgive and be done with it? Why is bloodshed a requirement?

My girlfriend always talks about the rules of literary analysis.........I would sure like to see a list of those rules........sounds to me those rules can be twisted just the way scripture is sometimes twisted...............I guess I can google it......... No, I am not a layman, and no we are not equqls. I am a student of Scripture and far more than a layman's interest/knowledge of Scripture. I wasn't talking about different conclusions. I was talking about the way higher criticism violates the rules of literary analysis. I have already explained them and reposted it about five or six posts back, this morning. If you like you may respond to my explanation and we can go from there.

Yes, you are so right about the myriad of choices for sure; Jesus just makes the most sense to me, and believe me, I struggle even with this Faith..........particularly because of the whole hell notion and the Salvation of just a few........so yes, all ya'll, I lean towards Universalism..........I'm surprised not to see a forum on this topic.........maybe I will have to start one And oh yeah, I am not a pie in the sky type Christian. There is much worth in living your ilfe here on earth in the most productive way possible.........God doesn't expect us to ignore the needs of the earth and its people........ You would need more than two hands to juggle the many myriad beliefs that are out there. Atheism and christianity are not the only options. Hinudism, islam, jainism, buddhism, taoism, wiccan and other forms of paganism are all available to choose from. And if you begin to dissect each and learn about the various denominations within each, we have different versions of thousands of gods/goddesses. I would see choosing one out of thousands as representing a very very slim hope (probability) of being correct, if indeed any god exists. Additionally, living one's life hoping for the rewards of an afterlife can be interpreted as living a meaningless life. What does anything you do matter in this life, when there is eternity in heaven? What should be done today can be done in your afterlife. It can be interpreted that atheists have the best approach to living life, as if every day may be your last. I know of many atheists who live their lives fully with this perspective. Regards, UF

Frankly, I am sick to death of holding our Constitutional rights in such high honor all the time - for crying out loud, those amendments should not be written in stone! I think it's high time we take a closer look at what we hold to be our constitutional rights and ascertain whether they clash with human rights! Brother, from a fellow Aussie, don't go there! I've BTDT. The foundation of the states was built on their right to have and use firearms and their opinion on this matter in general terms seems to be diametrically opposed to those Aussie hold (as with all generalisations, this won't hold for all, but it is generally true).

Amen! Could this be any clearer? Methinks not............. Indeed it is. Spoken by the Word from the Word. Mark 12 29 Jesus answered him, �The first of all the commandments is: �Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. 30 And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.� This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: �You shall love your neighbor as yourself.� There is no other commandment greater than these.� Matthew 5 38 �You have heard that it was said, �An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.� 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. 43 �You have heard that it was said, �You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.� 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Well exactly what ARE you saying? On the one hand the Bible says we should be prepared to defend our family (and I think your first example of being "armed" as in armed with God in prayer and study)..........yet you say you don't necessarily think we should all run out and buy a rifle..........where do you stand? I happen to lean away from everyone and their mother's owning guns.............

Okay, so after reading this debate for the past 2 days, I have finally read something that prompts my 2-cents worth and that is this: But we don't legislate against ALL immorality... we don't make greed illegal, we don't make lust illegal, or overeating. There is a balance and people debate where the line in the sand should be drawn, and usually it is determined on the basis of harm to society. I believe homosexual marriages are detrimental to the effect where they should remain illegal. That's what the OP is about - it's not just a religious conviction, there are also secular reasons why gay marriage is detrimental. No, we DON'T legislate against all immorality, but I will have to say after looking at your list of immoralities, they are indeed very detrimental to society, some of them even more so than gay marriage..........methinks if you're going to jump on a bandwagon it ought to be one or all of your suggested immoralities which to me can be way more dangerous than gay marriage. I'm just saying....... .. that's a false dichotomy. I do preach in various ways to homosexuals. With my actions, my words, MY VOTE, my prayers, and with my whole life I (hope I) send a message that is both truthful and compassionate. That their actions are sinful but the Lord has paved a way for grace and forgiveness. I've personally seen two homosexuals repent and turn to the Lord. One is now married. How can we change the heart by making it easier, more socially acceptable, and legal, to engage in sin? It's like telling my daughter not to play with knives and then removing the child lock from the knife draw... and letting her watch me do it.

Welllllllllllllllll, here's a little secret for ya, don't tell anyone I felt pretty comfortable on that side of the fence too, for a very long time, and as I say, the atheists provide good arguments..............it's just that if I have to CHOOSE what to believe, which is what Christians tell us, then I have to look at both hands and say, hmmmmmmmmmm, in this hand, I pretty much have NO hope, but here in this other hand, I have great hope........delusional, maybe, on the safe side, maybe.........I don't have all the answers, but I like believing in Jesus and Heaven (no hell)............. Whatever about the other differences between Christianity and Islam, the theme of 'submission' seems to be common to both, at least as far as I can see. (I often hear people talking about giving themselves over to God and placing themselves completely at his mercy etc.) Unfortunately we lose our way a lot. But if you truly search the Scripture you will find that the main theme for following Jesus is love. The motivation behind what we say and do ought to be love. Following Jesus, seeking the Father, listening to the Holy Spirit, ought to be about love, not requirement. Placing ourselves at God's mercy is about surrendering our pride. (You know,"Pride comes before the fall"?) I think this is probably true. (As Hume put it, 'reason is the slave of the passions') What do you think follows from this? That you should regard your own reason with skepticism as well. I feel for you. I was also a Christian with an atheist husband (and sons and friends). Maybe I am weak, but I decided to jump the fence, and I feel much better now, a lot of things make much more sense and adapt perfectly with my scientific education. But this is just me, and every human is different. If improving your apologetics and keeping your faith improves your general well being, then this is ok. After all, what is more meaningful than keeping our happiness during the short time we have to walk on this earth?

This is where I fall every time - if we cannot rely on our own reason/logic/emotions........then, we are constantly treading water hoping to stay afloat..........I know the Holy Spirit is with me sometimes, and I have had some close contact with God, on just a very few occasions, but Heaven help me, it's not always enough.........at some point I have to depend on my human knowledge/reason/emotions, ya know. This is always a struggle for me......................I am responding to Nebula who says we should be skeptical of even our own reasoning........ Sorry to blow off the subject matter here..........that said, it is one of my favorite debates to watch and my comment is that whenever I see these atheisit/theist arguments, I notice that we as Christians don't have arguments as good as the other side. I am hard-pressed myself to make sene to my atheist husband.........we so need to do better............ Whatever about the other differences between Christianity and Islam, the theme of 'submission' seems to be common to both, at least as far as I can see. (I often hear people talking about giving themselves over to God and placing themselves completely at his mercy etc.) Unfortunately we lose our way a lot. But if you truly search the Scripture you will find that the main theme for following Jesus is love. The motivation behind what we say and do ought to be love. Following Jesus, seeking the Father, listening to the Holy Spirit, ought to be about love, not requirement. Placing ourselves at God's mercy is about surrendering our pride. (You know,"Pride comes before the fall"?) I think this is probably true. (As Hume put it, 'reason is the slave of the passions') What do you think follows from this? That you should regard your own reason with skepticism as well.

For the life of me I can't figure out how to create a new post?? Help!