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@Dennis1209 Genesis 9:3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything. The above verse is pretty clear that God had allowed man to eat every living thing, but the allowance had one catch. Genesis 9:4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. Verse 4 was reiterated by the Jerusalem council in Acts 15. Notice in verse 28, that the Holy Spirit who was present at the council, approved of the limited requirements for gentiles, and to not place any more of a burden on the gentiles than the four requirements. Acts 15:28,29 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. The book of Galatians and Hebrews speaks against returning to trying to be good enough to get into heaven by observing the Torah. Peter at the council in Jerusalem posed the following question regarding Torah observance. Acts 15:10,11 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” Galatians 3:2-3 (CJB) I want to know from you just this one thing: did you receive the Spirit by legalistic observance of Torah commands or by trusting in what you heard and being faithful to it? Are you that stupid? Having begun with the Spirit’s power, do you think you can reach the goal under your own power? Galatians 3:5 (CJB) What about God, who supplies you with the Spirit and works miracles among you — does he do it because of your legalistic observance of Torah commands or because you trust in what you heard and are faithful to it? Galatians 3:10-12 (CJB) For everyone who depends on legalistic observance of Torah commands lives under a curse, since it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the Scroll of the Torah.” Now it is evident that no one comes to be declared righteous by God through legalism, since “The person who is righteous will attain life by trusting and being faithful.” Furthermore, legalism is not based on trusting and being faithful, but on [a misuse of] the text

Nobody has a problem with any individual that wishes to eat specific foods or avoid specific foods. That is their prerogative, and privilege. But there is a problem when one person's privilege and prerogative invades another person's. Scripture says that what one chooses to eat or not eat is up to him or her. If eating certain foods was a health risk, and we were to emulate Daniel, then Paul would not have said the following Romans 14:20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, Colossians 2:20-23 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

Thorough cooking kills all parasites

If observing dietary laws, could keep us in heaven, then there would have been no need for Jesus to die on the cross. If an individual is counting on Torah observance to curry God's favor, then Jesus' work on the cross is of no value to the individual. There is NOTHING we can do to earn our salvation, for if we have to earn it, then it would not be a free gift. Matthew 11:28 Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. When we stop trying to labor in earning justification before God, then we find rest in Christ. Trying to earn our way to God through Torah observance is wearisome and a burden that we can not fully bear. We find rest when we stop struggling to earn righteousness through trying to be good enough. Acts 15:10,11 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

The two sentences contradict each other.

I posted this scripture earlier. And in this discussion, we are seeing this prediction being fulfilled, for the topic in and of itself, is about getting people to not eat meat or only certain meats. It is NOT up to you to decide, what foods other people eat. This discussion is the very reason several people here, have a strong dislike for anything SDA. 1 Timothy 4:3 -5 and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer. Colossians 2:16,17 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Colossians 2:20-23 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

I have NOT lost sight that Jesus is Lord and Savior. That He came from heaven, born of a woman, born as a Jew, died on the cross, and rose to life again, and then went back up to heaven. He is fully God and fully man at the same time. My faith is in Jesus/ Yeshua or whatever your favorite spelling is, and it is through Him alone that I have received God's favor and grace. NOT through legalistic observances of the Old Testament. Righteousness was accredited to Abraham, NOT because he used "proper names" or "observed Torah commands" but because he simply believed God and trusted God. If any individual is counting on the Old Testament observances to curry God's favor and receive righteousness, then, Jesus is of no use to that individual, for his/her faith is NOT in Jesus/Yeshua but in the law of Moses. I want no part of this Hebrew roots movement. Because it shifts our faith from Christs work on the cross to legalistic observance of Torah and is for the birds, so to speak. The whole book of Galatians touches on this thread's very topic. Galatians 3:2-3 (CJB) I want to know from you just this one thing: did you receive the Spirit by legalistic observance of Torah commands or by trusting in what you heard and being faithful to it? Are you that stupid? Having begun with the Spirit’s power, do you think you can reach the goal under your own power? Galatians 3:5 (CJB) What about God, who supplies you with the Spirit and works miracles among you — does he do it because of your legalistic observance of Torah commands or because you trust in what you heard and are faithful to it? Galatians 3:10-12 (CJB) For everyone who depends on legalistic observance of Torah commands lives under a curse, since it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the Scroll of the Torah.” Now it is evident that no one comes to be declared righteous by God through legalism, since “The person who is righteous will attain life by trusting and being faithful.” Furthermore, legalism is not based on trusting and being faithful, but on [a misuse of] the text

There are no food restrictions in the New Testament other than abstaining from eating blood. Timothy 4:1-5 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer. Romans 14:16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, Romans 14:20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean,

If at any time, an individual, feels that another poster is being offensive, report the post; and this goes for ALL posters. In the upper right-hand corner of every post is 3 dots, click on it and a short menu will show, click on “report”. A copy of the “offending” post is sent to the forum moderator's for review. Let the forum moderators handle it.

Matthew 19:4-5 (NASB) And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said, ‘for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the two shall become one flesh Lets also look at Genesis 2:18 (NASB) Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.” So God, right from the beginning, instituted suitable relationships. And yes, the Matthew passage does indeed address homosexual activities. Scripture elsewhere says sex of any kind outside of marriage between a man and a woman is unsuitable. God is the author and designer of marriage right from the beginning. Interesting that Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:2 spells out what suitable relationships look like But because of sexual immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. He doesn't say... its ok for guys to have a boyfriend for a spouse and gals to have girlfriend for a spouse Paul iterates what God says is suitable and appropriate. “Each man is to have his own wife” And “each woman is to have her own husband” It is pretty clear from the few scriptures I've posted that any homosexual scenario is totally inappropriate. Anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to themselves. Matthew 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. The above passage is an outline that sin originates from the heart and mind. And if a person dwells on a wrong desire in his/her heart and nurses the desire... sin has a place to grow and will then manifest itself outwardly. Homosexuals, like everybody else are not immune to lusting in the heart.

Hopefully George will see this thread, and help you.

There is no issue with people being interested in linguistics. However, no one has a monopoly with regard to linguistics, or historical knowledge. But speech whether it is in English or some other language is meant to be understood by those hearing what is being said. Using big words or speaking with high-sounding ideas, or speaking in another language, or getting overly technical about words and spellings is not beneficial and does not make a person sound smarter, Instead such an individual comes across as being rude and arrogant. 1 Corinthians 1:17 (KJV) For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1 Corinthians 1:17 (NASB) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made of no effect. 1 Corinthians 1:17 (paraphrased) For Christ didn’t send me to baptize, but to preach the Gospel; and even my preaching sounds poor, for I do not fill my sermons with profound words and high-sounding ideas, for fear of diluting the mighty power there is in the simple message of the cross of Christ. 1 Corinthians 14:19 (KJV) Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. 1 Corinthians 14:19 (NASB) nevertheless, in church I prefer to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue. 1 Corinthians 14:19 (paraphrased) But in a church meeting I would rather speak five understandable words to help others than ten thousand words in an unknown language.

While I can agree, that it is good to eat healthy. And everything in moderation. What we choose to eat, comes under the same freedom that one has regarding the sabbath. And in this respect, scripture teaches us that there is freedom in Christ to choose what one wishes to eat or not eat. And we should not judge or criticize those who do different from us. There are no food restrictions in the New Testament other than abstaining from eating blood. Timothy 4:1-5 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer. Romans 14:3-4 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand. Romans 14:16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, Romans 14:20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, Romans 14:22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God.

@R. Hartono Actually, Matthew 25 doesn't say anything about being left behind, but an illustration of what the Kingdom of heaven is like. Luke 17:20-21 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.” Some translations say “within you”.

@R. Hartono There are people who enjoy the benefits of the Christian community without true love for Christ. Such are people who have an outward belief. But the necessary grace isn’t there. They have built a religious house, but they have no real relationship to God. Such persons are NOT ready for death or Christ's return. And do not need to wait for the beast and Antichrist or tribulation, to be on the scene in order to not be ready for Christs return. For they already are NOT ready for Christ's return by their unbelief in the life, death and risen Savior. Once an unbeliever dies, there is no second change and no admittance into heaven. In the Matthew 25 passages, the request of oil is something that none of us can transfer to other people. Salvation is non-transferable. You cannot transfer any part of your salvation to other people. Each person must make the choice for Christ on his or her own. It is unwise to reject the gospel message. The person who truly heeds the gospel message is a person who is exercising wisdom and is ready and waiting for he or she has a true love for Christ. They have appetite for God’s Word and God’s will in their lives. They exhibit genuine fruits of the Holy Spirit, that can be seen.

Doesn't matter, For God through the Holy Spirit is fully able to reveal Himself to us and what He requires of us.

@George

Some folks are still having issues with getting a post to go through after hitting "submit" multiple of times. The problem happens intermittently. Is this your experience?

The dictionary defines it as... A depraved, unprincipled, or wicked person. In short, a sinner.

missmuffet was asking a rhetorical question to make a point, rather than asking to get an answer. And I think that her point in this thread is very valid, considering the claim by the opster that scripture has been manipulated and is all wrong.

Scriptures which speak of not judging another regarding sabbath keeping, can be applied to this issue as well. Because, the Lord knows who are His and whether we are pleasing Him or not. Whether we use one spelling or pronunciation over another is something each person must decide. Whether we esteem certain foods over another, esteem certain days over another or esteem certain spellings over another. Scripture says God has accepted us all in the same way. And that is through the work of Christ on the cross. Whether I use Jesus or a use the Hebrew or Greek pronunciation, you still know who I am speaking of. God is fully able to let each of us know whether we are doing wrong, or we are pleasing him. We are NOT called to be language cops or morality cops, but to share the gospel message with the lost.

Since you are repeatedly mentioning prayer does not make a person a Christian, and using scripture from Matthew 7 to uphold your position; I think it is fair to think you are aiming this at roman Catholics, considering that there is prayer to Mary, saints, etc.... Yes we can agree, that prayers to Mary and the saints, etc... are unscriptural. However, the wording of your posts lumps all prayers in with it, and is insinuating that a prayer life doesn't do us any good at all and a person is not saved. Prayer is vital to the Christian life. It is our lifeline to God. A person coming to Christ and saying the sinner's prayer is a person who is truly turning to God. Fellowship with God requires prayer, because that is how we communicate and fellowship with him. But prayer is not what Jesus was referring to when He said “go away, I never knew you”. He is referring to unbelief in Him (faith and trust). For it is God the Father's will that we believe upon His son. That is, that we put our complete faith in the work of Christ on the cross. Belief is both intellectual as well as relational. People can believe He exists, and identify with a denomination or because their parents were Christian. But their belief goes no further. Christ has no bearing on their lives. They never put their faith, hope and complete trust in Him. These are the people He is speaking about. A person coming to Christ and saying the sinner's prayer is a person who is truly turning to God. Lumping prayers to Mary, etc.. together with a person who is saying the “sinners prayer” to accept Christ into their life will cause a new Christian to question the validity of their salvation, and hinder their prayer life if not cause them to lose faith in Christ altogether. Prayer is vital to all believers.

The original post is talking about HOW to be saved. Here, your saying “prayer” is meaningless. Is this what we tell folks when sharing the gospel message? There is only one way for people to be saved. And that is by putting their complete faith and trust in Christ to do for them, what they can not do for themselves. When we have done this, we are indeed saved. Prayer then is absolutely necessary; for prayer is how we humans communicate and fellowship with God. Telling him what's on our minds, and hearts. A person's validity comes from the doctrine of Christ. He or she will affirm that Jesus Christ is God in flesh, and they will place emphasis on Jesus, and direct others to Him. A person that affirms Christ as the bible teaches, strives after these things; Love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. And their lives show it. Someone who has never put their faith and trust in Jesus will always take the emphasis and focus off of Jesus and direct others in the direction of immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed. We must be careful when observing others, because we may not have the full story. For some, they might just be beginning their walk in Christ. We don't want them to start doubting their salvation, or they may stop trusting Christ. Everyone is at different places in their walk with Christ. And no one is ever immune to temptation and sin.

We absolutely can NOT, by our own efforts or goodness, earn our way to heaven. Salvation is a free gift by God's grace. Scripture says, ALL sinned and are deserving of death. It is only by God's grace that we have salvation, so no one can boast in and of him/herself. And there is only one way for ALL to receive salvation. Faith must be in the Jesus revealed in Scripture, who offered Himself in the place of sinners.

True that sermons are mostly for believers, but as unbelievers listen, the Holy Spirit will be talking to their hearts. While I agree that the “sinners prayer” is not in scripture intrinsically. But at the same time; scripture mentions that we should acknowledge God before men. We don't quibble over the purpose of water baptism, being a public confession of faith. But that is what it is, correct? An “alter call” is also a form of public acknowledgment that a decision has been made by an unbeliever to express repentance and faith in Christ. True that the call is not “proof of salvation” but it is certainly a place to start in expressing to God what's in their heart. Lots of churches have mature believers also going to the front of the church to encourage, pray and answer any questions the new converts might have. If the expression is genuine, they will repeat the prayer when they are alone, confirming in their hearts the desire to turn their back on sin. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water, because alter calls are certainly helpful. Many an individual made the decision for Christ through an “alter call”.