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listener24

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    At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’

    But they all alike began to make excuses.

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  1. An unprecedented event: would you join this?

    There is zeal when it comes to "guess" the right pre/post/a/anti/multi trib version. There is zeal when it comes to inventing new human prayers. There is zeal when it comes to discussing whether Saturday is a more important than Sunday, or vice-versa. There is zeal when it comes to discuss if we are doing good deeds "because we are saved" or "to be saved". Isn't it? Countless threads, countless at the forefront. But when it comes to follow Jesus command, to pray for actively hastening the coming of the Kingdom (Luke 18:1-8, Lord's prayer, 2Peter 3:12, last prayer in Revelation), we are few, aren't we? "At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, 'Come, for everything is now ready.' "But they all alike began to make excuses."" It is funny that in the parable it is written "everything is now ready". Almost like the Kingdom of Heaven was ready, but none wanted to really enter. Almost none is actively asking, but we are accumulating human excuses to not ask for it, regardless how Scriptural it is this request. Excuses that we would never make about any other prayers But I'm encouraged that at least some, like you, are keeping up this intention. There is still hope.
  2. "The Desperate Need for the Gospel"

    I appreciated different things in the talk, but the best part are the premises that the preacher makes: 1) Everyday, in this world, a huge percentage of people suffer from starvation. 2) A huge percentage of people suffers from divisions, wars and persecution, 3) A HUGE percentage of people don't care about spirituality and lose their souls forever. It is true, as that preacher says, that this urges us to spread the Gospel. But in particular, we should ask ourselves: what Gospel? To understand what Gospel, let's first remember one thing that Jesus said about the future: the 3 points above are not going to improve. Are likely to getting worse: 1) "The poor you will always have with you,[a] but you will not always have me" Matthew 26:11 "There will be famines and earthquakes in various places" 2) "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars" Matthew 24:6 3) "At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold," Matthew 24: 10-12 Everything that preacher said has been predicted by Jesus, and has been predicted to get worse. We can only make our best to stem, a little bit, this disaster, but without becoming delusional and thinking we are gonna save ourselves from this mess. There is only one event that will rescue us and stop this disaster, the Second Coming. Now in the Gospel of the Kingdom, Jesus taught us a fundamental prayer, that we often forget in favor of human-invented prayers. That is exactly a prayer to ask God to speed up His deliverance, because we admit that by ourselves we can't do nothing and we need salvation from Him. It is the same prayer that in Revelation is summarized as "Maranatha. Come quickly, Lord". It is the same prayer in Luke 18:1-8 "Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’ 4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’” 6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” This is the good novel of the Kingdom, we can cooperate with God's plan and spread the prayer about asking for His Return. "Thy Kingdom come". We can admit that alone we are nothing, and that millions of souls get lost every new day in this world, we can remember that we are here because of original sin and admit in front of God that we have learnt the lesson, that we want to come back home. "Deliver us from evil". Like the prodigal son. Therefore, if this is the Gospel we are spreading, let's go on! We can have our delivery getting closer. If instead, we want to spread a Gospel about a salvation coming from our capacity, a gospel of us deluded to fix all the problems born from original sin, in other words the gospel of deception, then we'd better stay home. We need to do our best to make this world better. To spread love. But at the same time we can't forget our hope, and our duty to hasten (2 Peter 3:12) the Second Coming, our real salvation. Whoever doesn't speed up Jesus coming, slows it down. Let's beware of: "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.' Luke 19:14
  3. Must We Believe in the Virgin Birth?

    Yeah I'm often surprised when "learned" men overcomplicate simple Truths of faith Thanks for the heads up, I was missing that they created complications on this too!
  4. Must We Believe in the Virgin Birth?

    It seems rather simple: we believe He is the Son of God, therefore, of course He can have a virgin birth, as well as performing dozens of other miracles. Why should this be harder than resurrection, healing mutes, paralytics, deaf, walking on waters, creating matter(food)? If someone doesn't believe He is the son of God, then he won't believe neither this nor any other miracles. I don't see anything "intellectually shocking" here
  5. Hello

    Welcome ADee!
  6. Adrian Rogers: Second Coming

    But you had already a good ground, otherwise when you received the seed it wouldn't have any effect, as the parable of the sower teaches. However. Feel free to believe that you are saved thanks to that one year on this earth, an year in which instead meanwhile millions have suffered starvation, persecutions, tortures, and millions of souls got really took by satan thanks to his influence while we are in this flesh and not delivered forever from evil. And feel free, as a logical conclusion, to pray for the delay of the Lord, as you have admitted. Feel free to quote 2Peter 3:9 on what the Lord does, and forget 2Peter 3:12, juste few sentences below, on what we should do. I'll rather pray with the Bride, the Spirit, the Lord: Maranatha. Thy Kingdom come. Come quickly, Lord and teach others to do the same, instead of inventing a prayer for His delay and teaching others to do the same. "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.' Luke 19:14 "Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e] 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.” Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’ 4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’” 6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”
  7. newbie

    Welcome firstcorinth13!
  8. Hi all, I'm Dan...

    Welcome Dan!
  9. Sanctification

    Welcome wole! That's a deep Truth! "If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." John 15:7 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." John 15:5
  10. Adrian Rogers: Second Coming

    Indeed we are asking the definitive demise of satan, so that no one would ever be deceived by the evil desires of the flesh anymore. Let's remember that satan's kingdom is based on lies, from the first, original lie.
  11. Adrian Rogers: Second Coming

    And I'm super-thankful too brother! For you, for me and for all of us called by His grace! Praise Him, forever Then, since you are saying that and I believe it too, do you really think that if He had come one year before, to rescue his children who are "crying out to him day and night", He would have let you perish? I think instead He loved you from the beginning, and sooner or later, in a way or another He would have drawn you to him, in that case with His coming. While some people refuse in their heart the gift of God, and not one year, nor 10000 billions years would change anything for them: that's why hell is eternal.
  12. Adrian Rogers: Second Coming

    Did you know the real Jesus (not a distorted image presented by men), with your heart and mind, and deliberately refused Him at that time? In my case I didn't, and as soon as I met Him for who He really is, by reading the Gospel by myself and not via human stories, I immediately accepted Him because my heart was striving for the Truth, unconsciously.
  13. Adrian Rogers: Second Coming

    Brother, I understand your gratitude for finding Christ and your emotions I can definitely relate on that. Reasoning a bit, do you think that year made the difference? Like that if you were died from a disease one year before, you would be doomed forever? What about all the people born when Christ wasn't coming here? Or lived where the Gospel wasn't spread yet? Do you think they are all doomed? I don't think that you think that. Instead I think that if you reason on that for 5 minutes, like Paul, you'll realize that they will be judged according to their heart, and they will meet the Lord in that Day. You already had the seed of Christ in your heart, from when you was born. You was already, even if maybe unconsciously, searching for Him and for Justice. So if he had come, you'd have been judged according to your heart and you'd have repent in that Day, like the hundreds of millions born when He didn't arrive on this earth yet. Only those who meet the real Jesus (like if they read the Gospel by themselves, without deceptions or false teachings), and rejects Him, will be condemned, because he who really knows Jesus, without filters, and still rejects Him, would never change, not in a hundred years, nor in a billion years. If you have the impression that you first rejected Him and then accepted, is a false impression, because you were just rejecting a not so clear/uncomplete image of Him. But those who never really met the real Jesus yet, will be judged according to their hearth, just as the hundreds of millions already died where the Gospel wasn't spread. Otherwise, according to your reasoning, it would be better if the Lord never comes. In my case it was the same too, I wasn't really happy without Jesus, I was still searching in my heart, consciounsly or unconsciously, so even if he had come years ago when I didn't meet Him, He would have find in my heart the seed of longing for Truth and justice, and He would have shown me His glory anyway, because the power is on Him, not me. The power of salvation is in His hands, not in my earthly body. Who is searching, will find, in a way or another, in this life or in that Day if he dies with an open heart. All those died searching before He arrived, will find Him in that glorious Day. That Day is bad only for those who deliberately refused Jesus after knowing Him very well, but for them there is no hope anyway, otherwise hell wouldn't be eternal but just a vacation! But for the Spirit, the Church, the Lord, the Bride, our hearts, our soul, that Day is joy: "When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." This is so simple and Scriptural, read Paul, find it in the Gospels. Now while the prayer for hastening is very Scriptural, the prayer for "delaying" the Second Coming doesn't sound so at all! So maybe, ideas like the one I've just refuted above don't come from God, if the result is hoping that He comes as late as possible. He knows the right time, but we should ask for hastening, not delaying. We don't want to delay the deliverance from evil of millions of people starving, suffering, being tortured, while we are comfortable on our couches. It is true that those who don't hasten, slow it down. Thank you very much, brother, for expressing your concern, that maybe is the concern of many others who are hoping in their heart that Christ should return late, for this fear, because we can get rid of this fear by simple reasonings like the one above. And then, starting praying again, with the Spirit: Maranatha!
  14. Adrian Rogers: Second Coming

    Brother, the things you mentioned don't exclude this prayer All of them can be done. But "praying", as you mentioned, is not enough, because too worldly prayer may actually pull us away from the Lord instead of drawing us to Him, because we risk to "keep on babbling like pagans". But differently from some other worldly prayers, that actually often have the risk to decrease our understanding of the Kingdom (Matthew 6:7, Matthew 6:33 ), this is a prayer very biblical, and that, quoting from another article, many entities(read below) are doing. All of them, except Satan who doesn't want his final demise to come soon. Read carefully and ask yourself...are you so sure you want to block this intention, maybe in favor of some prayers forbidden by Matthew 6:7, 6:33? From an article online: 1. - THE HOLY GHOST. FIRST we learn what is the mind of the Holy Ghost. “The Spirit and the Bride say, Come” (Rev. 22: 17). It is (as far as I know) the only recorded prayer of the Holy Ghost: He Who prays “with groanings which cannot be uttered” (Rom. 8: 26), when they are uttered, their summary is COME. The significance of this is extraordinary. The Spirit has a myriad ways of affecting the world for good, yet His prayer is, Come: He knows perfectly all evolution, all progress, all revival, all Gospel advance, yet His prayer is, Come: He knows the inexhaustible resources, the unrevealed powers, the most secret plans of God, yet His prayer is, Come. The Holy Ghost knows no solution to the problem of the universe except the Second Advent of Christ; and it is His own supreme prayer; thus the fuller we are of the Spirit of God, the surer we are to pray His prayer. 2. - OUR SAVIOUR. Next we learn the mind of our Lord. He says: “When ye pray, say, Thy Kingdom come” (Matt. 6: 10). “This, more than ever in these last days, ought to be the first and last of the Church’s prayers; for all that she desires for herself, for the world, and for her Lord Himself, is comprised in this” (Dr. H. Bonar). We are apt to see men to the exclusion of mankind; when we pray, for the Kingdom, we plead for thirty generations against one, for God will amputate a single generation - and that, only after countless pleadings in grace and judgment - to save an entire race. It is the most practical of all possible prayers, for there is no other way whereby the world’s political and social salvation can be wrought, and God’s love for the world at last fulfilled. “There is no remedy,” as Lord Shaftesbury, who wrought more social amelioration for his generation than any other man, said, “for all this mass of misery, but in the return of our Lord Jesus Christ. Why do we not plead for it every time we hear the clock strike?” “The Lord Himself,” in the words of Canon Simpson, “would never have bidden us pray, Thy Kingdom come, if those seasons, which no man knows, were so irrevocably fixed that our efforts could not hasten, or our sins retard, the wheels of His chariot.” If the Jewish disciple, by praying that his flight may not be on the Sabbath or in winter (Matt. 24: 20), can so modify the date of that flight as to change not only the day of the week but even the season of the year, much more is it in the power of the Church to “HASTEN the coming of the day of God” (2 Pet. 3: 12, marg.). 3. - THE APOSTLES. Next we learn the mind of the Apostles. Jesus says, “Yea, I come quickly.” “Amen,” cries John: I accept the doctrine, I hold fast the promise, I rejoice in the speed: “Come, Lord Jesus” (Rev. 22: 20). It is the last prayer from an apostle’s lips; it is the last and crowning prayer of the Bible; it is the last prayer of the last Apostle of the Lamb: the whole canon of inspiration closes with a direct appeal to Christ to come. “There may be many years of hard work before the consummation, but the signs are to me so encouraging that I would not be unbelieving if I saw the wing of the apocalyptic angel spread for its last triumphant flight in this day’s sunset. 0 you dead Churches, wake up! 0 Christ, descend! Scarred temple, take the crown! Bruised hand, take the sceptre! Wounded foot, step the throne! Thine is the Kingdom!” (Dr. Talmage). It is John’s last prayer, and happy shall we be if, falling asleep, it is the last prayer upon our lips also. 4. - THE CHURCH. Next we learn the mind of the Apostolic Church. “The Spirit and the Bride say, Come” (Rev. 22: 17). In all sections of the Church this prayer has never ceased down all the ages; yet only when John wrote did the Bride, as a whole, thus pray. “Surely I come quickly,” says Sir Robert Anderson, “are Christ’s last recorded words, but their fulfilment awaits the response of His people, ‘Amen; come, Lord Jesus.’ There is not a Church in Christendom that would corporately pray that prayer to-day.” Foreseeing this, how impressive it is that the Holy Spirit immediately adds: “And he that heareth” - he who has the hearing ear because he has the overcoming life – “let him say, Come.” IT IS A PRAYER PUT UPON OUR LIPS BY DIVINE COMMAND; that is, when corporate praying fails, infinitely more urgent becomes the individual prayer; and even if the corporate prayer continues, God is not content unless each adds his own ‘Come.’* Therefore every interpretation of prophecy which excludes this prayer as wrong or inappropriate or inopportune is self-condemned; every argument which silences it blocks the praying of the Holy Ghost through us; and every shrinking from it in our own heart is a work of the flesh. “Hardly had our Lord reached the threshold of the House of the Father than He shouted back, Surely I come quickly; nor does the Church enter into the rapture of her hopes until she brings herself to respond, ‘Amen; even so, come, Lord Jesus’” (Dr. Seiss). [* “This word to the hearer will remain in full force even after the watchful of the Church or the whole Church are borne away. Jesus’ coming is, to Israel also, the great point of hope.” - Govett.] 5. - OURSELVES. Next we learn our own need. All holy and Scriptural desire is legitimate fuel for prayer; and it is our peril so to be concerned with the doctrine of the Advent that we forget the prayer. In twenty-four volumes of the “Quarterly Journal of Phrophecy” (1894 to 1873) there is not a single article on prayer for the Coming. Is it nothing to us that our Lord wishes to come back? Why is He coming quickly if it is not the speed of desire? “Many Christians do not realise that the Lord is waiting until He is invited by His own to return: we may need to be urged; He does not” (W. Lincoln). And if our conscience cows us with the danger at the Judgment Seat of a soul only partially ready, let us meet that real difficulty by daily offering a simultaneous prayer - that we may be made so deeply prepared in life and character as to be able to see Him in fulness of joy. It is a self-purifying prayer.* Let us learn to say in the golden words of the old Puritan, Baxter: “Hasten, 0 my Saviour, the time of Thy return! Delay not, lest the living give up their hopes; delay not, lest earth should grow like hell and Thy Church be crumbled to dust. Oh, hasten that great resurrection day when the graves that received but rottenness, and retain but dust, shall return Thee glorious stars and suns. Thy desolate Bride saith, Come. The whole creation saith, Come, even so, Come, Lord Jesus.” [* 1 John 3: 3. Be it also remembered that the rapture, the first act of God’s response, may precipitate life in the very souls unsaved [and ‘left’ (1 Thess. 4: 17)] on whose behalf our anxiety might make us hesitate to pray the prayer.] 6. - OUR HEARTS. Next we learn the language of the fully‑sanctified heart. A whole book of the Bible is reserved as an embodiment of the heart‑cry for each other of the Bride and the Bridegroom. The waiting Bride suddenly cries: “The voice of my Beloved! behold, He cometh, leaping upon the mountains, like a gazelle, or a young hart” (Song of Songs, 11: 8) - the two loveliest and swiftest creatures of the mountains. And He replies: “Arise [resurrection], my love, my fair one,* and come away [rapture]. For lo, the winter is past, and the time of the singing of birds is come: 0 my dove [see Is. 60: 8], that art in the clefts of the rock, in the covert of the steep place” - on the precipitous summit of the Parousia. And then she cries back in words that end the Song: “Make haste, my Beloved, and be Thou like to a gazelle or a young hart” - for swiftness – “upon the mountains of spices.” In the words of McCheyne: “The day of eternity is breaking in the east. Oh, brethren, do you know what it is to long for Himself - to cry, Make haste, my Beloved?” As a friend once wrote me:- “I always feel when one sings Miss Havergal’s beautiful hymn – ‘Thou art coming, 0 my Saviour,’ that I want to prostrate myself on the earth and weep for sheer joy!” 7. - THE CREATION. Finally, we learn the unconscious mind of the world. “The whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain,” waiting “for the revealing of the sons of God” (Rom. 8: 19). Can you say, ‘More than they that wait for the morning, my soul waiteth for Thee?’ “Does your heart leap when you think that the Christ, ever present, is drawing near to us? All the signs of the times, intellectual and social: the rottenness of much of our life; the abounding luxury, the hideous vice that flaunts unblamed or unabashed before us: all these things cry out to Him, whose ear is not deaf - even if our voice does not join in the cry - and beseech Him to come” (Dr. Alexander Maclaren). For all the creation needs can be met only by the Advent. “In this prayer is summed up all that the Christian heart can desire - the destruction of the power of Satan; the deliverance of the creature from the bondage of corruption; the banishment of sin and sorrow from the individual heart and from the world; the restoration of all things; the establishment of the kingdom of righteousness; the beholding by Jesus in fulness of the travail of His soul, the bestowment upon Him in completeness of His promised reward. Let each member of the Church militant unite with the Apostle in the longing cry – ‘Amen; Come, Lord Jesus.’” (Dr. E. R. Craven). Bishop J. C. Ryle says: “Come, Lord Jesus, should be our daily prayer.” Shall we not make a compact together that, so long as breath lasts, we will, without a single day’s intermission, pray, “EVEN SO, COME, LORD JESUS”? Source: (http://www.themillennialkingdom.org.uk/PrayingForTheLordsReturn.htm)
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