Montana Marv

Como stas Roy, esta bien (most likely misspelled) Yes I did go the wrong way with the 6, I should have said 6 B.C.. This time could easily be 7 or 8 B.C. for the birth of Jesus. If Herod died in 4 B.C. and killed all the male children 2 years and under, that does make 6 years. But you must add the time Joseph, Mary and Jesus spent in Egypt, until Herod died. So there may be another 1 or 2 years added. A lot of unknowns. Now back to John the Baptist, His Ministry began about 29-30 A.D. 15 years into the reign of Tiberius Caesar (whose reign begin in 14 A.D.). So John may have been 37 to 38 years of age when he began his Ministry. (If you factor the 6 to 8 years). If so, Christ was 36 to 37 years of age at the onset of His Ministry. There are so many unknowns, trying to tie them to lunar events and Jewish holidays, makes for a very difficult accounting. Therefore any timing before 30 A.D. would be unreasonable for the death of Christ. Those sources are looking in the wrong direction. In Christ Montana Marv

That's not exactly true, my brother. We do know that Herod the Great died in 4 B.C. while Yeshua` was in Egypt with His parents. Prior to that, Yeshua` was called a "paidion" or a small child in Matt. 2:11 when the "wise men" came to see Him in Beeyt-Lechem (Bethlehem; "House of Bread"). We would call Him a "toddler" of about 1 or 2 years of age, but in any case, He was certainly NOT a babe in the manger! He was in a house when they came to see Him. Thus, Yeshua` would actually have been born sometime in 5 or 6 B.C. While many believe Him to have been born on December 25 by tradition, the truth is that, because His relative Z'kharyahu (Zacharias), the husband of Elishevah (Elizabeth) and father of Yochanan (John), was of the Aviyah (Abijah, Abia) division of priests, the 8th division, who would serve in the Temple as one of the 24 divisions that would serve on a rotation (Luke 1:5; 1 Chron. 24:1-19), his CONCEPTION would have been in December: One can read more at http://www.oneinmessiahministries.org/resources/childrens-section/63-a-miracle-happened-there.html . Adding 9 months to the "mid-December" conception of Yeshua` gives us that Yeshua` was most likely born toward the end of September, the time of Rosh HaShannah, the Jewish New Year. In Luke, we can next read,... Luke 3:21-23 21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. 23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, KJV This information establishes the beginning of His ministry as 23 to 24 A.D. (30 - 6 B.C. = 24 - 1 for no zero year = 23 A.D.) By tracing the holidays, in the Gospels using a good Harmony of the Gospels, such as that of Benjamin Davies (Bob Jones University Press, Inc., Greenville, SC, 1976), one will find that Yeshua` celebrated Pesach (Passover) in John 2:13 and 5:1, couldn't celebrate Pesach in John 7:1 because the Jews in Jerusalem sought to kill Him, and then was killed on the fourth Pesach in John 13:1. Pesach is celebrated at the first full moon after the spring equinox, which usually happens in late March to early April. That's 3.5 years! We can't be exact, but we can be sure to the nearest month! Adding 3.5 years to 23-24 A.D. gives us His death and resurrection in 27 or 28 A.D.! I also have a nice chart on the Chronology of the Crucifixion and the Last Week by James L. Boyer, Th.D., professor of Greek and New Testament at Grace Tehological Seminary in Winona Lake, IN (1976) that gives two possiblities for the date of the Messiah's death in 28 A.D., based on astronomical calculations and the way that the new moon was established by the Jews in Yeshua`s time. By the orbit of the moon, the time of first visibility would have been on April 14, 2:06 PM in the afternoon ... too bright! Therefore, the first possible sighting would have been on April 14 in the evening which would have been the beginning of the next day in Jewish chronology. That puts the first day of the month Nisan on Thursday, April 15. This, in turn, makes 15 Nisan on Thursday, April 29, 28 A.D., which would be Pesach. This view is possible if 1 Nisan began a day late because of overcast weather, and Yeshua` would have been killed on the day prior to the Pesach, the high Shabbat. So, yes, Marv, we can know quite a bit about how much time elapsed during His ministry! Roy Your sources are saying that Christ was born about 6 AD, That would make our calender off by 6 years. Your are also dealing with margin of error in your calculations, if it is not this date, it may be this date. Take a closer look: Luke 3:1- in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar (he reigned from 14 AD to 37 AD), the word of God came to John (John the Baptist) and he begin his ministry. This is 29 AD. So Jesus Ministry had to start soon afterwards. Therefore, Christs crucifixion had to occur approximately 32 or 33 AD. So your sources are wrong with a date of 27-28 AD. In Christ Montana Marv

Roy None of what you posted support any seven year covenant or a confirmation or reaffirming of a covenant for seven years. You also have no proof that Christ Ministered for exact;y 3 1/2 years. or 42 months, this also is not in Scripture. No dates are given for His Baptism and none are given for His Crucifixion. In Christ Montana Marv

Roy If what you say is true, What covenant then did Christ confirm with many for one seven at the onset of His Ministry. It had to be immediately after His Baptism. Christ made no such covenant at the onset of His Ministry. Your "He/he" all hangs on this, a seven year covenant. Scripture would be nice to support this. In Christ Montana Marv

Hi Enoch The only ones described in Rev 20:4-5 are the ones who had their heads removed (beheaded for Christ), those verses mention no other group of believers. These described did not worship the beast or his image and did not receive his mark on their forehead or their hands. What then will happen to all the other believers over the past 2,000 years who were not beheaded for Christ or never saw the beast of Rev. We have gone over this before; Either one receives an incorruptible body and lives forever with Christ or one is sent into the Lake of fire at the Second Resurrection. There are only two Resurrections; One for the righteous, and the other for the unrighteous. One is either part of (included in) the First Resurrection (of which Christ was the first fruit) or one in part of (included in) the Second Resurrection. 1 Thes 4 states that the dead in Christ rise first, then those who are alive in Christ rise next and meet them in the air. Rev 20 leaves out all who are alive in Christ, and only mentions those who were beheaded for Christ. No place in Scripture does it say that All who are partakers of the First Resurrection are changed at the same time. The Bridegroom takes His Bride first and they go His Fathers House in Heaven. Those who were beheaded for Christ came to live and reigned with Christ for a thousand years; it does not mention this group ever going up to Heaven, but immediately reigning with Christ on Earth. Yet the Bride is take to His Fathers house. I go there to prepare a place for you. In Christ Montana Marv

Massorite The closest that Satan will be to being a king will be to sit in the temple which is built during the first half of the 70th Week, and after the A/D is set up. In Christ Montana Marv

Roy Where is Christ Jesus at this time. Col 3:1 - Since then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. John 14:3b - I will come back and take you to be with me, that you also may be where I am. Christ is seated in His Fathers House at this time. He is our advocate (Job 16:19) against Satan. He, Christ is preparing a place for us (His Bride), in His Fathers House. The New Jerusalem is for all, not just the Bride; But that does not take place until after the New Earth and the new Heaven are made. In Christ Montana Marv

Massorite Your statement above: Angels have no need of a useless bow or a crown. Do the research and you will see it differently. Ezk 28:11-15 - Your were a model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. Your were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you, ruby, topaz, emerald, chrhslite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God, you walked among the fiery stones. You were blameless in all your ways, from the day you were created, till wickedness was found in you. Isa 14:12-14 - How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn. You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations. You said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will raise my throne above the stars of God. I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the top of the clouds. I will make myself like the Most High. I did my homework. Satan wants to sit on the throne (he must have a crown to do so). In Christ Montana Marv

One must see that this is taking place in Heaven. So this is an angelic host receiving the bow and crown. This individual was also given a crown (stephanos or lesser crown). Who is the only angelic host who wants to be like the Most High? Satan or the Devil. So he rode out from heaven as a conqueror, bent on conquest.. Daniel 11:36 - The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard of things against the God of gods. He will successful until the time of wrath is completed. v.40 - at the time of the end, the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him.. v.41 - He will also invade the Beautiful Land; Many countries will fall, but Edom, Moab and the Leaders of Ammon will be delivered from his hand. To say unheard of things against the God of gods, one must have been in Gods presence at one time. He is unable to conqueror Edom, Moab and Ammon; Matt 24: 15- So when you see standing in the holy place the A/D spoken of by the prophet Daniel.... Flee to the mountains.... Rev 12:13,14 - When the dragon saw that he was hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman (Israel) who had given birth to the male child (Christ). The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she might be taken care of for a time, times, and half a time (3 1/2 Years or 42 Months) out of the serpents reach. or (Edom, Moab and Ammon). So, yes this is yet in the future. In Christ Montana Marv

Roy This is what you said in the above post. Sorry, but the context of John 14:1-3 also does NOT support being "whisked away to our Father's house!" It is an example of the logical fallacy of "non sequitur" to suggest that He will come back to take us to the home He has been preparing. It doesn't necessarily follow that He returns to whisk us away! To the contrary, this is not an occurrence that happens all the time at the end of each of our physical lives, but at ONE TIME when Yeshua` physically returns! Would you really expect Yeshua` to return each and every time that a believer dies?! How would He get ANYTHING done in His Father's house? Just because He has been preparing us a place within His Father's house, the New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:2-3), does NOT mean that He will take us there when He returns! To the contrary, let's look at the context: No place in Scripture does it say that the Fathers house is the New Jerusalem. You totally missed John 14:4 - You know the way to the place where I am going. John 14:1-4 - Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God, trust also in me, In my Fathers house are (present tense) many rooms, If it were not so I would have told you. I am going there (to My Fathers house - present tense) to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me (in My Fathers house), that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going. Unless you don't get the picture, The house of the Father is not on this Earth. So we are not whisked away at the Second Coming to be with Jesus here on this earth for a thousand years. We are whisked away to be with Jesus in His Father's house (in Heaven). For this is where the wedding supper will take place. Matt 25:1,6 - At that time the Kingdom of Heaven will be like (similar to) ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the Bridegroom, v.6 at midnight the cry rang out; Here is the Bridegroom, Come out to meet Him. Do you notice it does not say come out to meet the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. This is not anywhere close to the Second Coming. The Bridegroom Raptures His Bride away to take her to His Fathers house where Jesus is at this time, preparing a place for us. When He is done preparing this place for us, He unexpectedly takes us away to be with Him. This is a honeymoon, not the Second Coming. In Christ Montana Marv

FInally....someone who allows the Word to say what it says without injecting it with their pet theological presumptions. Welcome to the WB, bro The term "tribulation" (the last seven years) or (the Seventh week of Daniel) is a coined term that Christendom has place on this period of time. Which is different from the trails and tribulations that those of the Church are going through now or have already gone through. But the description in Matt 24:21 of a great distress unequaled from the beginning of the world until now; One must equate this with the Flood in Noah's time, very destructive, no survivors except Noah and his family, worse than Armageddon will be, for those during the Flood were unaware, but those who die during Armageddon are aware. Many did not die at Armageddon. This "distress unequaled" is referring to the pouring out of the Seal, Trumpet and Bowl judgments upon all mankind. This 'great distress' or great 'tribulation" does not occur until after the A/D is set up in the temple by the A/C. (According to Matt 24:15) and quoting Daniel 9:27 and 12:11. So there are a lot of semantics involved. When verbally speaking, one (the hearer) must know the meaning; Cell, has many meanings, or Sale, Sail, or Sell and all pronounced the same. So when one author speaks of the Tribulation eschatology speaking, he is referring to the upcoming end times; Why fight his description? Biblically speaking the 70th Week of Daniel has not started, the last seven years has not started. A lot of time or very little time between Now and then (the 70th Week). In Christ Montana Marv