L.J.

Consider it a sign.

Ervin, You say that Socrates died the same death as Jesus because Socrates was an innocent man. Socrates was not an innocent man. He sinned like we all do. Jesus, on the other hand, did die an innocent man. He committed no sin. Plus Socrates did not die someone else's death. Jesus died a death that we all deserved. If you believe some things in the bible, but not all of it, how do you distinguish between what is true and what is not true? I can tell you what I look for in a congregation. I read my bible, I pray and I choose one that as close as possible matches what I see is portrayed in Scripture. Be careful on jumping into a denomination without having a strong base in the word. One can easily be led astray.

First we have changed the meaning of Tithing. Tithing literally means 10 percent. So you can't "tithe" 5 percent. You can't tithe 20 percent. And tithing 10 percent is redundant. Second, in the New Testament, Christians were from a mix culture. Many were not from the Jewish faith so tithing was foreign to them. What you see in the letters from Paul was to help out when help is needed. Third, there is nothing wrong with tithing. There is nothing wrong with not tithing. Where the blessing comes is giving 100 percent of our hearts. That is what our Father wants.

While it's true it's not their official creed, you will never get a creed from them. To have a creed would solidify their beliefs and put them in a corner. They want us to believe that Christianity evolves. They want us to believe that they are "radical". Radical literally means root (going back to the basics). The emergent movement is anything but going back to the basics. I personally think that the emergents will continue to grow. And IMHO one of the reasons for that growth is that we as brothers and sisters in Christ argue over doctrines and theologies and we ourselves won't go back to the root of our faith, which is Jesus Christ Himself and His teachings. And I have been as guilty as anyone else.

Yet the only mention of love in the above creed is in reference to a book. Not really ... we read "I believe that Love Wins and that the divine being will ultimately help us all embrace the divine spark (Imago dei) within all of us so that we can become one with the great mysterious majestic spirit and experience self-actualization, the next evolutionary leap and the life of the ages." They have been on this site and many others and they approach people with "God is love and is in everyone, sinner or not". Notice the acceptance of everything that is sin, but tears apart all that goes against sin? They also don't like the "theo-capitalist suicide machine". That's what I mean. Love Wins is a book by Rob Bell. Hence the capital letters. In their creed, that is the only reference to love. They love everybody and everything except people who take the Bible as the Word of God. While sometimes they do bring up some good points, it's usually by chance. About the same chance as a blind squirrel has to finding an acorn. To be honest, at first I was fascinated by their teachings. But the more I dug into them the more I realized that their "new conversation" was nothing more of an attack on orthodoxy than trying to find the truth. They practice the religion of Re-. Re-imagining... Re-inventing..... Re-thinking.... Re-visiting..... How about re-reading. Getting back to the Bible and practicing what it says. Not trying to evaluate it against what we experience in a fallen world.

Yet the only mention of love in the above creed is in reference to a book.

I agree Candice. It seems in the effort to be "inclusive" they practice exclusiveness to the Truth.

Found this on another forum. Not sure it's true but does seem to be the case... "Finally... The Emergent Church Creed (from LetterOfMarque.us): I believe, but not with absolute certainty, in a majestic mysterious divine being who cannot be comprehended, the initiator of Darwinian Evolution. And in Jesus, whom we agree to follow with a humble hermeneutic, who was conceived by the Mother Spirit (aka Sarayu from The Shack) born of Mary who probably wasn’t a virgin (it really wouldn't matter if she was or wasn’t) who was crucified under Pontius Pilate in order to expose the evils of the Roman Empire and motivate us to defect from all Imperial framing stories. On the third day He/She rose in the hearts of His/Her followers (getting hung up in Modernist arguments for or against Jesus' bodily resurrection entirely misses the point and the beauty of the resurrection narratives) He/She ascended into heaven and He/She is dreaming and hoping that we’ll follow His/Her examples of feeding the poor, embracing the “other” and non-violent passive resistance and thereby dismantle the theo-capitalist suicide machine and create an economically sustainable and socially just Kingdom of God on Earth (aka Global Marxist Socialism) so that He/She can return, glorify us and give us all a big group hug. I believe the mysterious divine being embraces all of us in community through questions and conversations. (Answers are not needed and only impede the journey.) Homosexuality is a gift to be embraced instead of a sin to be repented of, and that there are also followers of god in the way of Allah, Buddha, and Vishnu. I believe that Love Wins and that the divine being will ultimately help us all embrace the divine spark (Imago dei) within all of us so that we can become one with the great mysterious majestic spirit and experience self-actualization, the next evolutionary leap and the life of the ages. Peace out. Namaste"

Repentance is returning to Him, returning to where we should have started. If one has confessed His name, which is required for salvation then we would start to walk in His ways, which is returning to Him. In the Hebraic thought repent is teshuvah, not making effort to turn from but to turn back to, turning our backs on our fleshly lives and thoughts and to allow the Spirit to return us to a place where we can hear His voice more clearly. Repentance is the condition of the heart, softening it so He can mold us into the person we are meant to be in Him. So if you have confessed His name, you are repenting, you are returning to Him. You cannot confess His name without confessing your sins, repenting them is part of it all. shalom, Mizz That is beautiful!!

I want to throw this out there. I really don't know what to think on the subject and hoping someone might enlighten me. In some places in scripture, repentance is required for salvation, yet others it seems like it isn't. So the question is: Does salvation require repentance or does repentance require salvation?

I have the same problem. What I have found is waiting on God to give the opportunity to speak to that person. They may ask a question that opens the door for dialogue. Also pray for God to give you the words to speak. What I have found is that beating someone over the head with a bible rarely works.

Not sure who you are addressing this to. I'm going to go ahead and take it's me (or maybe both). "You cannot lump all churches into the same boat" No you can't, but I am talking about my personal experience and there are alot of people that feel the same way. If not just go to www.simplechurch.org or any organic/simple church sites. Check out George Barna's research on the subject. BTW Barna is one of the leading christian statisticians out there and his research is used by just about every major christian news group out there. (p.s. he also co-wrote Pagan Christianity) "If you chose not to attend a church, fine, but perhaps you have not yet found the right one for you?" As far as attending a church, I'll explain more about that later. But I don't think I said anywhere (nor did the OP) about not attending a local assembly. And since when should we choose a body of believers like we are in a cafeteria picking food? "As for spreading the word. Our church works from Mongolia, to Madagascar, to Zimbabwe and in Mozambique. And recently the Bahama's and New Zeland." That is awesome!! I think we all should do more in supporting foreign missions, but that doesn't take place in personally spreading the word, and I think that is what the OP was getting at. Too many times we think writing a check is evangelism, and it's not. "We go to church to learn, then we go......." Ok, I'm lumping this with the whole attending church comment. Where in scripture do we "go to church"? There is nowhere in scripture that describes a church as a place. It's a people. We are the church! We assemble together as commanded in scripture. We assemble to corporately pray and worship together, to edify one another, to attend to each others needs, and to share a meal together. Atleast that is what the first century church did. "Where are you spreading the word?" Work mostly since that takes up the majority of my time. And watching someone who a year ago didn't know Jesus from Moses to now talking non-stop about what he read in the Bible last night and going to different congregations sharing his testimony is awesome!! Watching God work in this young man's life and seeing how it's effecting his wife and children is just amazing. To God all the glory!! I don't think neither the OP or I have suggested anyone leave their congregation. But local assemblies are losing people in droves now. More and more people are without a church home. There has to be a reason and I don't think its all about them "not finding the right church for them".

I do think your on to something DLANE. A good book to pick up or atleast check out their websites is Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola Alot of things done in today's "churches" are not biblical in the least. L.J.

The problem is not who to vote for, or if we don't have enough Christians voting. Our problem is we don't have enough CHRISTIANS!! I'm not talking pew warmers but true hard core followers of Christ. When that becomes a majority, then you will see this country change. Then again, it could be God's plan that this country falls. He does establish the rulers.

I voted no. Like Cobalt, I was married to a Mormon for 8 years. They are not Christian. I decided long ago that I was a Christian who happens to be an American. If there is not a believer on the ticket, I just don't vote. Is it un-American not to vote? I don't think so. It's a right, not a demand. Before anyone starts waving a flag and saying I'm unpatriotic, I proudly served 10 years in the armed forces. I paid for my right for free speech and the right not to vote. I answer to God for my decisions. Nobody else! Don't mean to sound so harsh. Just tired of some people defining what is duty. Don't remember seeing these people when I was pulling broken bodies off the bus during Desert Storm.