thomas t

Hi Tigger, thank you very much for you answer(s). Actually, I for one want safety in my afterlife. If God is merciful with me, he will present it. I don't desire my enemies to anguish for eternity. I desire my own safety, and that's why I don't want any people that pose a threat to others to have the opportunity to do harm to me after death. Actually, I'm against all sorts of universalism (the teaching that everyone will end up in heaven after having received limited punishment). This teaching could set Jesus under pressure, I think. As he is supposed to judge. Thomas

when the devil came and brought scripture to Jesus, it wasn't balanced, in my opinion, see Matthew beginning chapter 4. So please, present the scriptures in a balanced way. Thomas

yeah, it's sin. But my point is, if you just present the hell the "good" news stops being good. Jesus both healed the lame, the blind, and many more people and, later, he talked about hell. Some people here just present the hell; there's no balance. Thomas

Hi all. Jesus told a doubter (Mt 11:4): the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. This is the opposite of any posts telling a doubter that they should repent or burn in hell. So I will always distance myself from turn-or-burn posts. Thomas *It should read "repent or burn", but these words don't give a nice rhyme . Edit: Mt 11:4 uses εὐαγγέλιον in Greek meaning literally "GOOD news" according to Britannica.com.

Hi Margo: I absolutely don't believe this is true. Seeing her as a troll is offensive, too, in my opinion. Treating her as a liar no longer believing anything she says is offensive, too, I think. Passing on personal information in the thread as concerning her age is at least rude, I'd say. In my opinion, the whole "turn-or-burn"-mindset is fatal. This makes it clear, to me, that you won't have any problem seeing her in hell. This is what I would call ignorant behavior. On top of this, this mindset only doubles the work of those who really want to share the Gospel with her. Those who want to do it still need to distance themselves from your approach. As a human you just can't turn-or-burn everyone into believing the Gospel message. Now, that she cannot post anymore as it seems, it looks like she is to blame for all of this? This would be fatal. Laughing her down I find is offensive, too. Jesus once said some very wise words in Mark 9:40: For the one who is not against us is for us. Regards, Thomas

Hi Leyla, I hope you won't get mad when my colleagues love to discuss you as a person rather than the topic. The ToS say it should be the other way round. Some people claim you're purportedly likely to go to hell. Of course this is insulting. Your're getting insulted on Worthy all the time but remember there are people getting blessed for being insulted (Mt 5:11-12) : “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. You seem to be honestly searching for the Lord, so this is on Jesus' account, I would suppose. If they insult you all the time you must do something right. It's like soccer, when they foul you all the time that's because you're such a strong player. So let me reply to your posts from some other thread in this thread. This thread is the least shouty of all, so far. You asked why God killed babies in Sodom. Where should the babies (if present) go to otherwise? No woman (parent) left. You further said that God seemed to be fooling everyone when he lets the evidence look like evolution happened. My take on this: Jesus cleared up the site after the Flood. That's why everything's neatly in place. God bless, Thomas

Hi Leyla, thank you, I like your style. yes Leyla, this is a very good approach. There are colleagues of mine ... even in this thread ... doing this all the time. They talk about hell like a new shirt, something like an everyday occurence. So I leave it up to them to deliver the proof all the while hoping that they will not resort to insulting. I feel like a shop vendor offering the water of life. Like in Revelations 22:17b And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life without price. Then someone enters my shop asking: "give me a drink but it must not be outlandish!" I won't sell my drink. Want a coke? I don't have cokes. So I must say: "I'm sorry, we don't sell coke!" Ok, now all you're saying is it's hard to believe. So when it doesn't seem impossible for you ... let's wait. yes, that was my point. It's so pretty because God loves us, I think. Even if there are parasites around. But parasites can't make the whole thing look bad, in my opinion. There are even some biologists out there who find them interesting. Regards, Thomas

Hi Leyla, thank you very much for your understanding of how discussions evolve here. It's nice to talk to someone relaxed! this wonderful nature is sufficient proof for a wonderful God, in my opinion. Not just some deity... This nature, for me, points to a God who loves freedom. Allah is someone loving freedom? [added mine, tell me, if I misunderstood you] Let me tell you one story out of my life. I once told someone "I'm a musician, I earn some money playing on the streets". Then she said "prove it - or I won't believe you!" Was she right in saying so? Was my assertion about my personal life worthless? I just told her I'm a musician. What's the matter? When I tell you "I'm 39 years old" do I have to prove it Genesis has great value to me! ... just a little word to the very good discussion you're having with brother Tzep... I'm not so much into what Dawkins says, but one thing is sure: no Christian is entitled to take self-proclaimed prophets seriously in case he or she doesn't prove their identity as a prophet through the facts. This my interpretation of 1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. Let me tell you one story out of my life. A woman came to me telling me she is a prophet. Then she just gave three key words. She didn't seem to have any idea of what the key words were about. Actually, the three words were the key elements of the dream I had the same morning. So I believed her saying she's a prophet. Best regards, Thomas

Hi Leyla, first off, I think you ask great questions.... and whenever my colleagues want to sell you some of their "science" you check it against the facts and you only believe what is well documented. That's great. You're doing a great job here! Thank you for being here. But my collegues also were getting personal in the other thread. They sometimes discussed you instead of the topic. I read that they said you're likely to end up in hell (the topic of the thread being arguments for God's existence!), they said that you "played" them, or they suggested insulting you using a scripture verse (to me, it seemed they were suggesting this). Well, co-poster Dove seemed to also have seen the problem. So I won't post again in that thread. I want to avoid posting alongside with my colleagues in that thread so nobody thinks that I approve of their way to discuss faith. Which I don't. I honestly hope that this time here in this thread... whoever wants to join the debate will do so politely. I also hope that you won't get banned you from posting here in the main sections just for asking some difficult questions - difficult for some. So let's discuss this topic now: Great question. In my opinion, there will be evidence for Adam not having any ancestors.... in case the Creator wants this evidence to be in place. Whereas many colleagues say there is evidence... I don't see a reason for why Jesus would have added that evidence? My colleagues and I agree in the basics of faith and in many other things, but sometimes there are different opinions when it comes to the details. This happens. Actually, when it comes to evidence for God... the Bible offers help. Romans 1:20 - I put it in my words - says nature is so charming as a whole and so wonderful that it is evident to see who is behind it. So, when nature as a whole is already the one big evidence for Him... why should He want to add further evidence going into detail? Isn't nature enough? God isn't accountable to us. Maybe I have to disappoint you here. Regards, Thomas

Hi Leyla; still wanting to answer you in the other thread, this one here I find is more crucial. You seem to take the answers from the Theory of Evolution as a given: noone can disprove God from intervening. Even scientists can't. But if a loving God intervenes, it looks like this: He giveth to the beast his food, and to the young ravens which cry. Psalms 147:9 KJV The ToE is about survival of the fittest. The Bible, in contrast, is about survival of the loved ones. If they say they can't disprove God, then they can't disprove him helping hungry animals, either... But in case he does, the Theory of Evolution would be wrong in its entirety regardless of how well supported by facts it may be. It could be that God simply doesn't leave evidence behind every single time he helps an animal surviving. Why should he? But I'm certainly not going to say that there is a big conspiracy against God going on in the scientific world. Neither would I resort to name calling against evolutionists. This is what many of my colleagues do. Unfortionately. Furthermore, I take evolution as a fact. It's just that the Theory of Evolution and the Book of Genesis and the Psalms and other Biblical books are overlapping in a sense that they are mutually exclusive. You have to decide: either believe the one or the other. BTW I suppose animals have souls +afterlife, too, at least Bible doesn't teach otherwise. I simply reject the idea that we have ancestors from before Adam. Regards, Thomas

Thank you Angels! A very good approach! But this time, the lady I was going to dicuss with, the one having doubts, was the one getting insulted. We both certainly agree that insulting is disrespectful. A moderator stepped in... but the attacker didn't get banned. Are you telling me if the doubter makes a mistake being disrespectful... she might get banned? Whereas posters from the believing side won't? The last forum I was in, people insulted me as much as they ever would like, but once I made a mistake according to the moderator, I got banned from posting at that site. Forever. That's why I'm here now posting my apologetics on this wonderful Worthy board. So God did bless even that ) However, I still know what it means to be treated as second class. So, this time, I would like to make sure beforehand that my discussion partner won't be banned for being disrespectful in case she makes a mistake? For me, equal conditions in debating is so important. For I suppose you can't convince when there isn't equality. Regards, Thomas

Hi George, currently I start discussing faith with a lady who professes to be a Christian. Halleluja (it's always good to have Christians around ). And this seems to be where the story of her faith ends . As the new regulation concerning atheists requires you to ban every atheist from the main sections - we discussed this in length - I am worried about her ending up getting banned, too? She doubts everything: the Bible, that God created the world... everything. But she says she is a Christian... So when is it that you start thinking about banning someone for "aggravated" atheism? I mean before I take up debating with her I want to make sure that this doesn't lead to her getting banned from the main sections. Regards, Thomas

Guten Tag Leyla! Here is beauty (see attached picture). It's a perfect interaction between nature and man. No beauty intended (by man). And no evolutionist easily explains how the beauty yet arose. So I don't believe it . Normally, I don't respond in these threads because the "evidence is everywhere!"-folks do. They say science proved the Creator while scientists say they don't. Not knowing who is right... I don't want to plug this hole for them trying to solve the issue. But this time, they didn't say anything in answering you. So, enjoy the beauty. Thomas

Hi Leyla (Guten Tag!), great question to ask. In contrast to at least one writer from the evolutionist side... I believe the Bible text as it is written . However, it might be useful to stay silent in this thread, in my opinion, . For your reply would be placed beside this one... Now, if you're an creationist writer and post your reply in this thread, the others might think that you approve of statements like the quote above. So it might be helpful to send a hidden answer to God on this in a silent prayer. God will see it. Hi Joul, in case you want to reply to my post, please be assured I won't answer you as I prefer to not discuss your quoted statement. Regards, Thomas

Hi all, the church I go to couldn't keep the refugees I was talking about, they all left. They found a mainline Protestant church who was able to welcome them. However, protestant churches in Germany normally don't even preach repentance because they don't have an idea what salvation is about - this is at least my impression from what I hear from those who study Protestant theology. But they were able to manage the welcoming for the refugees. Nevertheless, God let it mercifully happen that a new group of refugees came to the church I attend, and this time they stayed. Today, one of them sang a song in his native tongue and I had the honour of accompanying it along with two other friends. The musician had an interesting style mixing in 10% elements from his home country. I never said Germany should let more refugees in. But now that they are in, the churches profit from them spiritually, in my view. Their faith is great. Best regards, Thomas

Hi White Dove, as my last thread on what I would call homophobic remarks on Worthy ended here, I don't want make potential homophobic remarks within this thread a topic again now. But let me share some thought on this one: It seems that she strongly disagrees with something she finds in the Bible. I had someone within my family saying "the Bible says it, I disagree with it!" Let go. This is at least my advice. Bible should always be the authority, and in this case she frankly rejects Bible as such. So you would have to discuss whether Bible can be an authority or not.... and this is not a good place to start, in my view. There are so many seekers out there who are unsure, so please save your energy for situations that are more promising. In Germany, for instance, we don't have enough workers to edify new people in thier faith, for instance. Moreover, evangelisation as I see it is team sports and you seem to be the only Christian reaching out to her? Anyway, congrats that you found your way to the Bible. Thomas

Hi Xet, thank you for clarifying. Now I'm no more saying you're pointing fingers . Regards, Thomas

Hi Hartono, let me tell you something from within my own family. My grandmother married a former senior commander from the German SS. As he hadn't partaken in the combatting himself, he went to all the houses abandoned by the Jews, instead. As we all know, those had been deported back then. Together with a colleague, he had taken all the money + valuable things left behind from the Jews. And when the war was over he found himself "blessed" with a big fortune. Instead of giving it back to the Jews he stealed from, he founded an enterprise. And now the curse: that company went bankrupt. His marriage failed and ended in a divorce. But according to German law he was individually liable because of his inability to pay. Fearing that they might take his house which was a big townhouse in a prime location in Hamburg, northern Germany... he conveyed it to one of his sons (my uncle). Never paying anything back to the Jews. My uncle sold the house but lost the money. Later he emigrated to the USA but, according to the American police, he died in a car accident. Shortly after, the ex-husband of my grandmother commited suicide. Some 10 years ago I told my grandmother that I couldn't understand the way they handled the money stolen from the Jews. She was very upset because of my criticism and our contact ended. She died three years ago aged 99, however. I also distanced myself from the way my mother talked about that theft of back then... never calling it a theft herself. I am grateful that I could express my opinion before she died. Best regards, Thomas

Hi Willa, hostile? No. Regards, Thomas

Hi Xethea, I find this was quite generalizing. ... generalizing again... Regards, Thomas

Hi Blood Bought, now I see your approach is much more balanced than I thought it was. Thank you for your clarification that was helpful. Let me tell you my view from a German perspective. We in Germany are basically unable to cope with the influx of people eager to hear the good news. We don't need to tell them "listen", they listen anyways - but we don't have the experienced workers willing and able to build the people up we are already welcoming at church. This... ... I mean what you think to be the right bad news... is not needed currently. People come anyway. We need more workforce to build the people up that are already there, including the many refugees who just converted but are in dire need to be fed spritiually. Their "bad news" is their entire life: first they got persecuted in their home countries and then they find themselves at the very margins of their new home. Sometimes there is even racism from within the Christian ranks. Even if... even if the swine thing comes at the end of the entire conversation and even if your conversation partner were to be a swine in God's sight... it is abusive to say so, I think. Jesus never said "call them swine" or so. Blood Bought, you are such an experienced worker, can't you perhaps come up with any other idea to put an end to a conversation? The people who might copy your style will hurl around the "swine" thing all the time... Actually, throughout the many dicussions we saw here on Worthy that ended with an array of heavy insultings against our atheist guests... the Christian poster seemed to think the same exact thing. Something in the sense of "oh my goodness: I told them my opinion already three times in a row, but they won't listen, it seems, so... I will insult them now!" But maybe their stance was simply too weak to convince? Maybe? Christians are already having the image of being too agressive in my view. let's assume you win two others with that... just wondering how are they going to behave? Here in Germany, many Germans are turned off by aggressive Christian behaviour, already. If you transform your church into a dungeon, don't be surprised when you attract some Rambos, I would say. Anyway, thank you for your thoughtful answer, BB. Regards, Thomas

Hi Blood Bought, when he was in the temple... yes he wasn't worried. I stay with my opinion, this is highly disrespectful, especially when you know they are there... Everyone can read, this is a public fourm - even atheists can read that you call them "swine" and "pig". Even if you say getting called "pig" and "swine" helped you... disrespectful behaviour is disrespectful behaviour. If you appreciate being beaten... that doesn't mean that others appreciate being beaten by you, too. Regards, Thomas

Hi John, I believe you are not the only one to say so. The Bible was written a context in which Christians did not insult them or prohibit them from replying when Christians talked about them in public. Neither did the Bible prophesy that there will be a moment in which Christians mock atheists or treat them in a condescending manner. You only mention atheists mocking us . So now times seem to have changed as we can see here. We can still visit the old threads here on Worthy in which atheists were subjected to personal attacks stemming from the believing side. Or look at the quote below... I would call it a theory that these recent developments do not contribute to the way Jesus judges them. Hi BB, don't you think ot might be condescending when you talk about them in this manner? When they can't reply as you know? The atheists on Worhty certainly feel excluded by us. This is all the more true when we come to talk about them without them having the possibility to reply. I happen to have a statement from an atheist (Kevin B) in my PM inbox which reads "Hi all that can read and reply. Essentially I was I this site a while ago, was always polite, was always respectful despite receiving threatening and ad hominem attack replies from Christians. I'm deeply saddened to see the site has taken great lengths to inhibit discourse and replies from non believers. I think this is massively segregating and doesn't help, in fact hinders, integration and understanding all views is essential as we have to share space and the steps this site has taken to put up further walls only adds to dividing us." Regards, Thomas

This is not true when you have a state around you that is willing and able to help you if you don't know how to raise your kids without using violence, I think. Things have changed. I know many friends raising their kids without any violence. Violence isn't needed. Thomas

spelling altered. yes, that's true. Maybe it's a German thing. We know Bonhoeffer and things like that. Frienduff, normally when we accuse seomone of something... we deliver proof. But this thread is about women, and Rick doesn't seem to fall in that category. So, can we drop the issue? it's an Applorange.?