Stan53

This is pretty much what Paul taught against. Jesus' earthly ministry was for the Jews, yes, but Jesus called Paul to be the Apostle to the Gentiles and Peter confirmed that Paul was and that the Gentiles were also to partake of the Good News. Acts 11:18; When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

I have another scripture also that our Earth body is used. Which makes me wonder what are we discussing here as it is used and raised. What is Stans point? He gave the same conclusion that it is our body that gets raised from the grave. Jesus Is Lord. The OP was, and the "dead" in Christ shall rise first. It would appear some believe ONLY our spirit rises, NOT our body. This of course is ignoring scripture that shows our body is raised and our soul/spirit is rejoined with the NEW body.

Yes xero, that is very true. We WILL be LIKE Him. Just as Christ was raised in a glorified body, we will be raised in a glorified body. Luke 24: 36-53.... again scripture IN context and not a single verse. 36 While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 37 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. 38 He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” 40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41 And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence. 44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” 45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.” 50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.

Your missing some scripture here. Find it. Though Im not kdb4747 I know the scripture you seek: 1 Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." Taking ONE verse does not a doctrine make...the verse needs to be in context with the whole section of scripture that Paul writes to explain the resurrection. 1Cor 15:35-53 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. 42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man. 50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed — 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

Another example IMHO, of a Christian ignoring the law of the land. Why would he not hold these so-called Bible studies at the actual church building? Something smells rotten in Denmark if you ask me. By-laws are there to keep a semblance of order in residential communities and I'm sure that pastor would have been at the very front of the line, had a Sikh or Muslim home owner tried the same thing. I've been going to 'home' Bible studies for years and years, and it was always limited to 10-20 people. Hopefully Christians will not get sucked into this as an issue of persecution, because it's NOT.

The videos are not IN context so making a judgment out of context is like someone seeing you at a magazine rack looking at a computer mag right beside the Playboy mag. The reason we have the Bible to is KNOW what is acceptable and what is not. It's also the reason we have teachers. Please stop using the RC church to point out bad habits. I was RC and yes they have a lot of BAD habits. However there are many RC's who are truly born again believers. You have no way of knowing what is acceptable to me unless I tell you, and I didn't tell you the links you provided were acceptable behaviour, because I wasn't there. I don't make judgment calls based on videos. Just remember when you point a finger at someone saying they are the problem or have a problem, there are three of your own fingers pointing back at yourself. It’s all evidence and it doesn’t matter what context because there is no context where this is acceptable. Just in case I missed something let me ask you where would this conduct be acceptable? Of course if you did not watch them how would you know? The mention about the rc is because you questioned my link about many belief systems. Quote, I read the link you provided and it is full of unsupported assertions, from someone I have never personally heard of, or for whose credentials I can validate. unquote So I used some personal experiences to show my point. Please try to pay attention… They are indications of how some people use speaking in tongues. Like I said I wasn't there so I can't know what the context was and neither do you obviously. Your lack of understanding or even having a correct perspective to assess these videos, invalidates your conclusions. Yes I guess I did observe that you seem to have not been able to settle on one belief. Like I said, I read the link. Not ALL of it, but enough to know where this guy was going, and to assess he was wrong. That is the benefit of knowing Christ as your Saviour and knowing God's Word. Please resist the urge to get snotty.... I don't need to address your posts you know.

That is NOT true at all.

Thank you, xero, for caring and for the verses which I will read in earnest. I fell out of grace with the man whom I considered my spiritual father, and he told me, "God tend that fire, you may as well get use to it" and he was talking about the chorus on tormented souls in hell once and he gestured to his left and made a sound the damned might make, and he gestured my way and did the same. Meaning that I will be moaning in the chorus of hell. I would discount it, but he was right about so many things, and I trusted him to be a most spiritually knowledgeable and discerning person. That's all for now, I am going to sleep it all off right now. Monarchy....men are JUST men. They have no power to consign you to heaven or hell. If you have confessed Jesus as Saviour, then you ARE saved. Romans 8:1-2; Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. As far groans and moans are concerned, Romans 8:26 explains those; In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. The ONLY one we can have faith and trust in, is JESUS. Look to Him and I will pray for you. I'll leave you with this verse, 2 Tim 1:12; That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet this is no cause for shame, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day.

Yeh the issue here was Judaism already beginning to pollute the church. Paul fought against is but eventually compromise. If you read ALL of Paul's letters, he never really supports this.

The videos are not IN context so making a judgment out of context is like someone seeing you at a magazine rack looking at a computer mag right beside the Playboy mag. The reason we have the Bible to is KNOW what is acceptable and what is not. It's also the reason we have teachers. Please stop using the RC church to point out bad habits. I was RC and yes they have a lot of BAD habits. However there are many RC's who are truly born again believers. You have no way of knowing what is acceptable to me unless I tell you, and I didn't tell you the links you provided were acceptable behaviour, because I wasn't there. I don't make judgment calls based on videos. Just remember when you point a finger at someone saying they are the problem or have a problem, there are three of your own fingers pointing back at yourself.

The Lord Judge his own which would be the Church? or we talking white throne judgement and everyone gets thrown into that? Jesus Is Lord. Rev 20:11-15 11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

You can quote the WHOLE Bible, but without context it means nothing here. Yes the dead(physically) in Christ will rise first, no dispute. Yes we will have incorruptible bodies when we rise. Is there a point you are trying to make? BTW, who is "our". The "dead in Christ" are those who predeceased His second coming. ONLY Believers, NOT dead unbelievers. They are IN Christ. You cannot be IN Christ unless you have been spiritually born again as Jesus said. I KNOW I am born again. Only Christ knows who the sheep and goats are and that is why He will judge the living and the dead. You and I DON'T know. Every single man, woman and child will physically be raised from the dead at the judgment seat of Christ. They are NOT born again, they are raised from the dead. Rev 20:14-15 is the second death; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. I'm afraid you have not read or not understood Rev 21. It shows we will LIVE in a New Earth FOREVER. Not in Heaven but ON Earth. You have to be born again BEFORE you can enter the kingdom of God, which will be the New Earth. John 3:5; Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless one is born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. I am already born again and I look forward to Christ's second coming so I can LIVE forever.

All this is, is Pentecostal bashing. You don't understand it so you bash it...just like the Pharisees did to Jesus. hi stan, i am glad that i don't understand the actions in these videos. btw i used to be a roman catholic charismatic and spoke in tongues... how does that sit with you? It kind of makes me feel rather sad for you, that you deny what the Holy Spirit was doing in you, if indeed He was.

All this is, is Pentecostal bashing. You don't understand it so you bash it...just like the Pharisees did to Jesus.

Who are the 'those' you mention? My experience is 90% are, but then again I don't worship at places that DON'T believe in 'tongues' and their legitimate uses within the church. Have you documented this kind of person? How do you know that some speak in tongues that have never received the infilling of the Holy Spirit? I only KNOW about Christian belief. What exactly do you KNOW? I'm going to assume you are asking from a Christian perspective, as any other perspective would be pointless. Do you also question the validity of other people's salvation? I can't see this tact being very unproductive in fostering a better sense of Christian acceptance and tolerance. I read the link you provided and it is full of unsupported assertions, from someone I have never personally heard of, or for whose credentials I can validate. I do note the church you attend and have to ask myself, just exactly what is your motivation here? Do you accept that the speaking in tongues of the NT exists today and is relevant, or is it your intention to cause doubt as to it's current day applicability? Hi stan, Interesting response. I had left a link for a reference so you can either refute it with some facts or just have a fit.. The rest of your response really doesn’t say anything otherwise I would respond… By the way, they were questions as indicated by the question marks. You have my response. I read the link and I told you I don't accept the assertions. I'm not going to debate someone else's argument.